Jesus adherents only: How is a ''separate' trinity concept, not polytheism?

[PeteC-UK]

As I say - Christ alone - is of the legitimate FATHER - spirit that causes Creation..Only HE speaks of coming DIRECT from that Source of All...Things He says in the ORIGINAL disciple gospels make this abundantly clear and undeniable....To Judas He says it DIRECTLY recorded here in Judas own gospel:

“Come that I may teach you about secrets no person has ever seen. For there exists a great and boundless realm, whose extent no generation of angels has seen, in which there is a great invisible Spirit,which no eye of an angel has ever seen,no thought of the heart has ever comprehended,and it was never called by any name.“

See..??..Pretty clear - He tells Judas that there ACTUALLY EXISTS - great boundless "realm" that no Soul here - NOT EVEN THESE GODS AND ANGELS - have EVER even comprehended such a thing He says... There ACTUALLY EXISTS HE says a SOVEREIGN SPIRIT that again these we call gods DO NOT KNOW IT AT ALL !! Note - we have NAMES for ALL our "gods" dont we..?...Indeed ELOHIM they say - MANY versions of "one god" (is actually many gods one species) - hence many NAMES for the Jewish deity and its various aspects..Yet here Christ says THIS LEGITIMATE SPIRIT HAS NEVER BEEN CALLED ANY NAME AT ALL - EVER !!!

That is because - just as He explicitly said - no Soul here had EVER encountered this realm or this spirit before so none know it and therefore none have ever named it at all...See then by HIS words we immediately know here this Father He alone teaches us of - CANNOT BE the Jewish god who is INTIMATLEY known already and they have full relationship with it for thousands of years already... Christ just said above that He would reveal SECRETS that nobody ahd eve rknow n before..Obviously then this is not the god Yahweh who they know fully already - this is just as He said an entirely unknown spirit and realm to existance - entirely NONE PHYSICAL - INVISIBLE spirit that He says EXPLICITLY those we call "god and angels" have NOT ENCOUNTERED it either !! This is not the Jewish god at all that He speaks about...

As I say before to JOHN and in his original goselp Christ reveals literally EVERYTHING - start to finish - from my Fathers first stirring mind Self awareness - through to mankind walks the Earth - even through to what happens after mortal death if we come to understand Him...All the SPIRITUAL truth revealed here alone - HOW creation happens -WHY it happens - its PURPOSE and INTENT - all fully revealed by Christ....He speaks DIRECTLY of creating MANY MANY UNIVERSES - a heirachy of spirit that causes the formation of the material worlds and their lifeforms - Divine spirit and the material "matter of creation" become entwined - it all flows form a fully abstract none physical TRINITY of MIND that Christ is integral to and that cause the material physical worlds and their Souls to form - He explains it all start to finish..

Part of that explanation is to speak specifically of how THIS universe came about - explains the creation of an individual specific SPIRITUAL Angel that will be cast away and isolated here because it is malformed - less than perfect - a mistake and an accident - happens when one aspect of this Trinity has a stray unguarded impulse and so creation dutifully comes forth as usual only because it is done alone without the whole Divine mind this creation is different and believe it or not Folks, but He says directly and explicitly that this malformed imperfect Angel RESEMBLES A DRAGON...THIS angel is cast away out of fear guilt and shame and THIS universe here is created SEPERATE for it to inhabit.. The Lord and master of THIS entire universe - IT started all life HERE but is not the SOURCE of creation itself can only manipulate that which was likewise created and placed here with it......

Its first name is YALDABOATH - it is an ANGEE He said - a CREATED BEING - not the SOURCE of creation but able to MANIPULATE Creation to its own desires...This level of the Divine heirachy is known as an ARCHON - the one here is such an Archon and in its turn it will create PHYSICAL worlds - this entire solar system being one good example of course...Christ explains all this SPIRITUAL heirachy to us where the bible and other sources fail to explain any of it at all...HE ALONE speaks of this Trinity SOURCE of Creation - He alone speaks of the arrangement and heirachy and successive orders to creation....These other PHYSICAL sources are dealing with purely PHYSICAL existance after the spirit has already formed the material creation...The religions of this god deal with the ACTUAL history and real world events as all this unfiolds - CHRIST ALONE is the ionly one dealing directly with the SOURCE of All Creation, LEGITIMATE spiritual Father...

YES - I KNOW the obvious response here is to say the religion can and does claim the spiritual side as well - BUT - when we go look at the ACTUAL EVIDENCE in those ancient Sumerian artifacts that are the ORIGIN of the Hebrew faith -we see for sure the bible version is not the original at all - and as said IN that original account - the legitimate DIVINE aspect is BAFFLING to the Elohim who simply do not understand the SPIRITUAL Father at all as they have NEVER directly encounterd it before - they themselves say so OPENLY - and all this is EXACTLY what Christ Himself later verifies..

Out of real world actual events all these religions arose...These we call gods now were once flesh and blood people who lived side by side among us...Although YES they DID directly create mankind - they did this from lifeforms they found already existing here and they themselves have NO SPIRITUAL TRUTH - all this is fully detailed fully admitted in those original Sumer narratives that spawn the later Hebrew narratives.. Along came Christ - and He too says exactly the same thing - the Father HE ALONE speaks of - NOBODY here had ever encountered before - not even those we call gods He said so EXPLICITLY.. He alone offers SPIRITUAL truth - He alone knows of Origins and destinations for Souls - this is indeed why He said Iam the way and the ONLY way - none will reach the Father except they come through Me.. His alone is SPIRITUAL truth - the religions of this god offer only PHYSICAl truths and do not know the Father at all.. Avoid them all He warned for they all lead you astray - and as we see now -the confusion they bring is great indeed...

 

[Kenny]

I do hope there is room to disagree. Your posts are so long that I may have to do it in parts.

Hi Folks..

Ken;

Ok - first bare in mind here that EVERYTHING we hold as truth about this "god" comes directly from the Jewish Hebrew heritage and history...The one we call "Yahweh" DOES change - OFTEN - first it presents itself to the Hebrews as said - and this is obviously a very contradictory character for this god - one minute protecting and guiding but the next it is damning and destroying....

I don't see it that way. Deuteronomy 28 gives a spiritual law... if you follow direction--you get blessings, if you don't--you are cursed. In a natural way, if you follow the speed limit you get where you are going but if you exceed the speed limit you pay a fine. You can't blame the policeman for a free will decision of exceeding the speed limit and getting a fine. The policeman doesn't change because he protects one minute and then fines the next.

Then there is the caveat, as in Job, who did the destroying... was it God or Satan. Joshua's "But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD" If you serve the other gods (which I believe were ultimately created by Satan - there are other perspectives) - you get cursed. If you serve God, you get blessed.

Our decision... if we serve sin, we are penalized but if we serve God, there is blessings.

Then along comes Christ - and by anybodies standard, He gives another NEW teaching that is SUPPOSED to be about the same god Yahweh, so we are LED to believe by the religious "authority" at least - so we see here the "god" has changed already -

I disagree. Before sin there was the Garden of Eden with no curses. Sin caused the curses. Jesus simply is bringing us closer to what used to be. He expressed all of that God is in the Hebraic scriptures... I AM Rapha (healer), Jireh (provider), Nissi (our banner or victor), Shalom (our peace), Rohi (our shepherd), Tsidkenu (our righteousness). Jesus didn't present a different person, he personified every aspect of God. Not a different one, but the same one.

but look - after Christ this "god" will radically change directly so, yet again, and abandon the Jews entirely and start again with a NEW chosen people - Mohamed and Isalm and a new revealed truth of this "SAME god"- yes..??....So yes for sure the "god" we call Yahweh does change whenever it sees fit.

I think what we have are differences of viewpoints. As a Christian, I believe Satan creates religions. Islam is NOT another revelation. IMHO

One "god" - already has THREE religions and they are all at war with each other CONSTANTLY decreed and mandated

Yes, but that is man-created wars. Hebrews eventually separated into two nations at war with each other. Israel (10 tribes) and Judah (2). Because they fought didn't mean they had two gods. They had one God but began not following God.

Likewise, Christian who fought Jews VIOLATED the mandate to love your neighbor. They violated God's mandate.

- supposedly - BY that god itself as it sets up opposing religions then pits them one against the other all in its name.....RIDICULOUS - but true !!

No... God didn't do that... men do that.

Basically I can summarize this by saying "Your viewpoints are based on certain foundational statements that I don't agree with". Because I don't agree (as in above) with your foundational statements which aren't supported IMV - we come to completely different conclusions.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Monotheism- The belief that there is only one god

Polytheism- The belief that there is more than one god

Monolotrism/ Monolatry- The belief that there are many gods, but with the exclusive worship of only one god

Henotheism- The belief in and worship of one god, without excluding the existence or possible existence of other deities

Duotheism/ Bitheism- The belief that there are only two gods

Tritheism- The belief that cosmic divinity is comprised of three powerful deities



Monolotrism/ Monolotry, Duotheism/ Bitheism, and Tritheism are all forms of Polytheism. Henotheism is right in the middle between Monotheism and Polytheism, as henotheists are theistic towards their own god and agnostic towards other gods... whereas monotheists are theistic towards their own God and atheistic towards all other gods, and polytheists are theistic towards more than one god regardless of how many are worshipped.

I may not worship Jesus, but I am accused of such by many who believe Jesus=YHWH, even though I worship YHWH in a manner similar to how @Clear defined "Henotheism" (even though the definition I offered differs from it).

There are many pantheons who acknowledge a supreme god reigning over many gods, even though many other deities in those pantheons are/were also worshipped. An example of this is Marduk of the ancient Babylonian pantheon, who after defeating the deific manifestation of primordial chaos (Tiamat) achieved hyperapotheosis and became supreme god of the pantheon, even though other deities- such as Anu, Enki, Enlil, and Ishtar- were also worshipped. We are also very well aware of Jupiter/ Zeus, who despite reigning as "king of the gods" was worshipped alongside Minerva/ Athena, Mars/ Ares, Juno/ Hera, etc.

Polytheism as @Clear described (which is more like how I defined Monolotrism/ Monolotry) was actually practiced in early Abrahamic culture ("Abrahamic culture" being the collective worship of the God of Abraham by Jews, Christians, Muslims, and others... as well as their collective rites and lore)... when people worshipped YHWH, while acknowledging the existence of other ancient Semetic gods and goddesses. What began as polytheistic, monolotristic Abrahamism became henotheistic, and eventually "monotheistic"... even though Christians, Muslims, and Jews have what some have described as entire "pantheons" of beings inhabiting Heaven and Hell (Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Azriel, Samael, Lilith, Asmodeous, Astaroth, Belial, Metatron, etc). However, these beings are often declared to be far from "godlike" in the eyes of most people who worship YHWH... perhaps because Abrahamic culture evolved into worshipping YHWH as the ultimate being of ultimate everything.

______________________________


The concept of a Trinity by Christians has been compared to polytheism by many people, and denounced as heresy by various people who feel it goes against what some perceive to be "true" Abrahamic monotheism (such as certain adherents of Islam). Christians view it as Monotheism, and somehow equate Jesus ("the son") with the Abrahamic God YHWH ("the father")... despite incredible archetypal difference. When I read about Jesus, I recognize an archetype of compassion, humility, kindness, forgiveness, deliverance, redemption, salvation, etc. When I read about YHWH, I recognize an archetype of ultimate Creation, ultimate Destruction, and ultimate Order over ultimate Chaos. I do not worship them as One, I do not even worship Jesus. I worship YHWH (among other beings... but most of all YHWH). Still there are Christians who insist that by worshipping YHWH, I am worshipping their lord Jesus Christ.

Me personally... I approach the Abrahamic religions from a polytheistic perspective. Not because of Jesus, but because of collective Abrahamic belief in demons and angels and the role of these beings in the lore, as well as the impact various ancient Mesopotamian and ancient Semetic influences had on the Abrahamic religions. Even the "Satan" can be described as godlike. Not supreme god-like... but godlike, when we consider the roles gods and goddesses have had in collective human religion.

To the Christians who believe in a Trinity comprising of God/ Jesus/ the Holy Spirit (whether as One or seperate)... I have this to say to you. Regardless if it can more accurately be described as Monotheism or Polytheism... it doesn't matter. It really doesn't. What matters is that you are worshipping the highest and greatest God in all the cosmos, YHWH.

Thank you, for your openness in discussing your beliefs!

Best wishes to you, my friend! (In fact, I view everyone as a distant cousin, all being descended from Noah. So.....take care, cousin!)

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Ken; Well as I said above - please try to see the direct implications here - EVERYTHING that the religion calls truth was ALL previously recorrded in Sumer - the ENTIRE religious saga can be found in Sumer FIRST thousands of years BEFORE any Hebrew nation - and the ORIGINAL account is definately speaking of and dealing with FLESH AND BLOOD CREATURES and not "spiritual gods" at all..

If you check out the ancient Sumerian narratives, you will see for sure EVERY major religious event that the Hebrews will later plaigerise and make the core of their religion... And I mean EVERY event of importance or significance for the formation of religion itself was done ON PURPOSE as a means and tool to DOMINATE the mankind they had created..ALL O FIT - fully recorded and fully explianed....The bible event "god said......etc etc creation of the solar system - explained as a PHYSICAL EVENT that their society witnessed directly - the formation of the solar system as WE HAVE IT NOW with asteroid belt and outer radiation belt and ALL the planets AND their moons correctly known and positioned - all this VERIFIED by modern science, yet THEY in ancient Sumer reded it ALL FIRST - how it formed - why it formed - a sequence of galactic events and modern science agrees something similar must have happened - all explained in detail by them thousand s of years before we even invent a telescope..lol.. GO FIGURE !!! Perhaps what they record then is TRUTH as these OFF WORLD HUMAN LIKE FLESH AND BLOOD PEOPLE taught them...Obviously they DO know legitimate truth - and their own source IS these off world visitors - they prove to be legitmately reliable with their factual knowledge verified by modern science - so why even doubt them when they offer a source FOR that knowledge..??...At the start here this is purely PHYSICAL interaction - nothing spiritual here - PHYSICAL people came here with advanced scientific knowledge and thus it begins - all this obvious and openly described scientific wisdom in ancient Sumer, fully verified by us now who have a similar level of scientific knowledge and so can finally make sense of this confusion that will lead directly to the Hebrew religion and indeed EVERY religion the world over.....

EVERY major Hebrew religious event - fully described here FIRST before any such Hebrew nation ever existed...How these we call Annunaki / Elohim came to Earth - why they came - fully explained - PHYSICAL events.. HOW they created mankind - why they did it - fully explained - a SERIES OF GENETIC EXPERIMENTATION - fully explained - even DNA itself and the process they use to manipulate it - again FULLY EXPLAINED by these in ancient Sumer...

The ENTIRE history of civilisation - FULLY EXPLAINED - and again fully verified by modern scholars - the places they name - the buildings they say they erected that STILL STAND - the wars and interactions nation to nation - ALL VERIFIED by all the nation sources directly involved in these events themselves and recorded and so easy to cross reference in their own histories - some even retain the same names as they will later have in the bible - Eden a prime example - first mentioned in Sumer - turns out it is an ARTIFICIAL PARADISE - a biosphere we would call it that matches the homeworld conditions perfectly.....Indeed - all manner of advanced knowledge fully explained - things that we modern man are just coming to terms with now ourselves these ancient Sumerians recorded it all FIRST and they tell us blatantly these who teach them are FLESH AND BLOOD people who live among them - not SPIRITUAL gods at all - that aspect comes much much later - after an event where they use TECHNOLOGY fully described to REVIVE and give life back to a dead person...As said, fully described - a TECHNOLOGICAL event as they all are...Not supernatural - not spiritual - but man in his ignorance witness the event direclty yet cannot explian it adequately at all - and so now "the gods give life to the dead" and they have power over life and death itself amply demonstrated and so a "spiritual supernatural" element naturally arises to primitive superstitious man who do not understand the technology used and openly described, but see its immediate result as dead man returns to miraculous life... This event triggers the spiritual aspect - and at the same time another similar event - one Elohim female, named Anana - goes a little psychotic - bona fide crazy actually - after her husband is killed and his body lost so that revival is not possible - she loses the plot basically - .begins a murderous spree of her own - seeks revenge on her husbands enemies - and eventually declares herself the "supreme goddess" changes her name to ISHTAR and so mans troubles really begin as she sets about wiping out her rival Elohim....

So the spiritual element to your religion begins here with these two coinciding events....The public revival of a dead Elohim causes man to adopt the spiritual aspect of "life after death" as genuine, and the "gods" demonstrate power over this.. It is openly described - and I tell you it is nothing special - our basic paramedics do the same thing EVERY DAY - so we read the account it sound easy to follow as WE have similar technology - but ancient man saw this and assumed it was a "god power"....These Elohim simply use that to their advantage - promote the spiritual aspect as genuine and thus promote themselves as "spiritual gods" and it is all fully documented by them directly...

As I said on another thread - ALL the major religions - especially this Judaic one and its later counterparts - will arise because of these first two bogus spiritual events - a twisting of truth that WE can understand easily - a technology used that to ancient man seemed wonderous and supernatural - god like - but to us, is merely now everyday technology that is openly described in the ORIGINAL account..The religious version is taken WHOLLY and FULLY formthis earlier original text...Literally EVERY EVENT as said....Long and detailed account of the creation of man - set of experiments - trial and error - fully documented..Eventually success so they think...How the first humans cannot reproduce and so success becomes failure again - more manipulation explained to add Elohim genes to allow mankind to procreate for ourselves naturally - again fully documented,fully explained - finally the creation of the prototype INTELLIGENT humans that ARE able to reproduce (these we call Adam and Eve) - all fully explained and EVERY EVENT of the religion recorded HERE first - except these are flesh and blood people here doing genetic experimentation clearly described and documented plain to see... The tell us clearly they ADD their own DNA to primitvie man to produce a new hybrid - bred ot be a workforce slave race - at first created clumsy and dumb so that wont do - next created more human like but unable to reproduce - and indeed it is actually by a DIRECT MATING Elohim and Earth female that the final true Human is created though even this direct hybrid needs further intervention still to allow us to procreate.. All this genetic experimentation is fully described in step by step, almost scientific wording like a modern synopsis of a defined procedure..

It goes on to recount how now they have the correct worker race inplace and we are finally reproducing - except of course we are all crowded into one small plot of land thus far in AFRICA -and yes indeed Folks - EXACT time and place in our ACTUAL history - such genetic manipulation DID OCCUR exaclly as the ancient Sumerians record for us..SOMEHOW they know for sure that modern man - homo spaiens - arose out of Africa around half a million years ago - and they RECORD it here directly - verifeid by modern science... Again - GO FIGURE - somehow they know legitimate TRUTH of mans origins - and this is their account of how it happened - PHYSICAL causes all the way through - NOT SPIRITUAL !!

They are very clear candid and precise - tell us clearly that soon mankind has a population explosion - and simply there is not enough food and resources to sustain the operation as it is..And so they teach mankind new forms of farming and agriculture - and indeed set up TWO CLANS to take careo fthe tasks - and yes Folks -same bible names -CAIN and ABEL... Again here in Sumer it is al recorded first - with far more plausable reasons explained as to why all this happens...The bible story of these brothers is pretty accurate - a row over jealousy - one bro kills the other - Cain is exiled sent away - but first they again ALTER HIS DNA - it is stated that the murder is a result of a genetic flaw - the rage and violence that Cain exhibits is SUPPOSED to be genetically supressed ON PURPOSE to keep mankind docile - so now an effort to remove the "murderous trait" gene is made - a gene is activated by mistake so they tinker to try to stop Cains rage and violence from being passed on to his offspring...See -they MAKE MISTAKES - not gods - not spiritual - PEOPLE - creatures like You and I - scientists PLAYING GOD !!! They cannot find a genetic cause for the violent trait - so they banish Cain as punishment and precaution - but first alter his dna yet again - this time to make his face appear HAIRLESS so that they will be able to instantly recognise those with the flawed gene....They physically take Cain and his descendands to SOUTH AMERICA where they will become the Incas and Aztecs.. This must be truth - because the Sumerians SOMEHOW know - on the other side of the world that they supposedly have no access to or contact with so modern academics insists - and yet -SOMEHOW - they accurately know and record that across the world there exists a similar race of man except these men CANNOT GROW A BEARD - and the Sumerians KNOW this and record this as fact.. HOW did they know this..??............Their own explanation is the only credable truth..

 

[PeteC-UK]

NOT GODS - people...Whent hey create mankind, ther eis a detailed and long debate and philosophical argument recorded...Two brothers as said -Enki and Enlil - one heads the sciensce aspect - the other heads the MILITARY aspect - for this is an OFF WORLD EXPEDITION for them - and eventually a full scale colonisation of course...But here at first - a dilemma - should they tamper interfere to create man..?...WHAT ABOUT this DIVINE SPIRIT - it is ENLIL the MILITARY man who has ethical and spiritual concerns - the scientists though are all for it course. Enki head scientist - brother to the military leader Enlil - and these two are PRINCES on thei rhomeworld -very important people here... it is ifnally agreed after heated argument -that mankind MUST be created as the need i surgent - such concerns and worries fully disclosed an dfull ydiscussed for al to see...NOT GODS -and they even realise it is wrong to "play god2 this way -and yet they fully admit they have no choice they NEED mankind to work for them here...

THIS IS - beyond any doubt at all - the start of the Judaic religion...EXACT events - EVERY ONE OF THEM - I could be here all day pointing out the direct corrolations.. Often they even retain the same names in both accounts... Its all PHYSICAL - fully explained in plain detail - even such things as how the spiritual context came about and how the first generation of Elohim born here on earth, assumed power in their own successions and adopted the spiritual aspect as primary tool to enforce control .- all fully disclosed WITHIN the Sumerian account itself... Indeed - the one Enki, left a complete record of his full involvement with mankind.... It is easy nowadays to cross referance all this with many similar accounts from the people and nations the events speak of - and time and time again they match the Sumer narrative perfectly - as said - cities mentioned - specific buildings mentioned - all found by modern archeology...Specific events and historical timeline fully confirmed by all available sources.. We have no actual reason to doubt any of it - so when they tel us directly these "gods" were once flesh and blood PEOPLE very similar to ourselves - well we have no reason to doubt at all - and every reason to accept their truth...

Take off the religious blinkers and drop all religous affiliation - we soon see common truth through them all - every event in the Judaic religion IS recorded first by these in Sumer...Those they call Annunaki are the exact same group the bible will call Elohim....The specific "one" god Yahweh seems actually to be a mixture of the two brothers Enlil and Enki - one opposed to our creation even right at the start - the other is our benefactor who protects us always.. There is NOTHING SPIRITUAL about any of it - not until way way way into our history when mankind has been here thousands of years flourishing working gold mines as we were created to do and Elohim set up first society to feed and maintain us all...NOTHING SPIRITUAL - until just before the flood event - which is recorded as a NATURAL event as their homewiorld completes another orbit nears the solar system again and so all hell breaks loose once again here, calamity happens... This time the gravitational affects of the planets passage cause the southern ice sheet to come lose - this causes an unpresidented tsunami as literally millions of tons of SOLID ice displaced the ocean resulting in a near world wide tidal impact and sustained flooding..


I present all this recorded fact from Sumeria to show you beyond doubt that they understand all this as a PHYSICAL EVENT and not some kind of "Divine punishment" at all - that is mans confuison spread and fostered BY these here who PORTRAY themselves as gods but of course are not true SPIRITUAL god at all...

The only LEGITIMATE spiritual phenomena that happens here - is first a REAL WORLD visit by an Elohim from the homeworld that neither Prince brother nor any present on Earth had ever met before...A man named Galzu arrives by ship stated clearly - supposed ot be an emmisary of the King Anu their father - bringing dire news form home - telling specificaly that the planet we know as Saturn has affected the orbit of the homeworld yet again - and this time they will pass by Earth very CLOSE and much earlier than expected !! They have (supposedly) worked out the trajectory and probable affects and warn the Earth colony to EVACUATE fully as this will destroy all lfe on Earth..

So they prepare to evacuate - Galzu leaves on the next ship home - the prince brothers contact their father King Anu to update their status get final instructions - only King Anu and the homeworld KNOW NOTHING AT ALL OF ANY OF THIS !!!! They check it out of course though - and find that miraculously - this STRANGER Galzu who no one can account for - has given them all a timely and accurate warning - yes indeed Saturn HAD altered the orbit and yes indeed there would be calamity on the Earth yet again..

it is decided here the Elohim will evacuate - but leave mankind to heir fate - they are FULLY PERPLEXED by this mystery Galzu character - and begin to suspect a true DIVINE intervention... Enlil argues that this is FATE decreed by the supreme Divine UNKNOWN and TRUE god... He says that clearly the TRUE Divine want to wipe out their creation of mankind and they have made a big error tampering on the Earth and hti sis their consequence -a "Divine judgement" - he argues successfully that this Galzu MUST BE a spokesman for the TRUE god and it says openly that this is troubling to them - new and unknown to them but htey are taking this Divine intervention very seriously... So - they consult King Anu and tell the homeworld EVERYTHING spiritual concerns also... Another huge philospophical debate is recorded -nature of the Divine - were they wrong or right to create man -is this retribution -or natural - fate or destiny..???......

THEY DONT KNOW - they are not gods - they do not comprehend the Divine !! All fully recorded for us to see - PEOPLE who have the same spiritual dilemmas we all do !!

it is decreed by the King - let the Elohim go into orbit to await and see the results as the homeworld makes its approach...If possible we will salvage what we can and take it from there....They all swear a vow an dpledge of "nine interferance2 -agree ot let the calamit yhappen unchecked..

Except - Enki - has an out of body visitation by a BEING OF LIGHT - that totally BAFFLES him (scientist) - who at first brushes it off as a mere dream and just goes back to sleep...This Light Being tells him basically that due to their meddling they have awakened a dormant faculty and that mankind has the capability now to realise it Self as an ETERNAL SOUL - and it is this Being of Light that first warns of the coming calamity as the physical person Galzu - and who now reveals a plan - a SUBMARINE schematic - written on a "tablet" - and a plan to save and repopulate life on Earth... The now SPIRITUAL Galzu tells him directly he is from the Father of All Beginning and the true Divine wish mankind to be saved and to grow and mature - to come to their birthright as an eternal Soul the means and methods to achieve this will be revealed when ready , but for now, first, mankinfd MUST survive this coming world wide calamity....

Thus the religion tells us of NOAH - but Sumerian tell it FIRST originally - and it is this narrative here that we first see some legitimate Divine intervention - up to this Flood event, EVERYTHING has been purely PHYSICAl and even here this first spiritual event they dont have a clue about this Father spirit or its true intent toward us.. They ALL swear a vow of none interference - mistakenly thinking the destruction to be perhaps an ordained fate decreed by this unknown spirit God - when actually the Father wants mankind to be saved and to prosper....

Here is the start of the Judaic SPIRITUAL aspect - a twisting of all this oroginal truth - recorded first in Sumer exactly as I have presented it here... The one we call Yahweh is a composition of things said and done by the two Princes Enlil and Enki and the two family clans they are heads of for as said these are flesh and blood walking talking people who live among us generation after generation...They have children here who in their turn assume authority over specific areas of the world giving rise to patron gods and patron nations..- they themselves are extremely long lived - lifespans into the thousands of earth years no problem at all - again all fully explained by them in purely PHYSICAL terms...

The ONLY legitimate spiritual referance comes in that Flood warning event - Enki never encounters the Father again - but Enlil the other MILITARY brother will have a similar out of body experience where Galzu tells him that mankind was destined ot be saved and now he Enlil must agree to allow mankind to prosper in a legitimate manner to fullfill our potential and realise our eternal Divine nature.. This intervention is the ONLY spiritual aspect that the Sumerian accounts offer.... The OFFSPRING as said come to power - and it is they primarily who take mankind into confusion - each claims seperate godhood - two exalt themselves as supreme above all gods - Ishtar the crazy one who is Enlils clan - and Mardok son of Enki who turn out to be very egomaniacal - and basically goes off everywhere inciting all manner of trouble starting religions -stealing technology to give his clans advantage - then starts wars to dominate them all under various names and personas,notably Ra and the Egyptian pantehon that ally to him - this leads eventually to all out nuclear war around the Sinai peninsula and the comlete destruction of the Sumerian civilisation through nuclear fallout making the place literally uninhabitable - hence the puzzle answered as to why these cities are often found abandoned intact but no trace of life anywhere - as if they all dropped everythign and simply left - now ALL fully explained here in these original accounts..

The religion - ALL religion - comes directly from this group here - Annunaki ARE Elohim - not one god - but many off world visitors that saw an opportunity and so CLAIMED to be gods to dominate us.. When the legitimate Divinity intervened to help mankind it totally shocked and confused these Elohim who do not know this Father spirit SOURCE of Creation at all.... Everything the bible presents as truth is actually a twisting of this much much MUCH earlier version here - and this legitimate Divine Father is only mentioned as said in that one intervention given to two brothers and that is their first and only contact with it.. The much later Judaic religions are a mis match confusion coming from all this twisted history...

We wont see or hear from my Father again for another few thousand years - not until again another intervention is needed - and so my mate Christ will finally come among us and reveal the legitimate truth of the Divine Spirit and of the Light that causes All Creation - and He will set the record straight of course regarding these lesser trickster wannabe gods and tell us clearly that they are not gods at all - only Angels - only CREATURES - exactly like You and I ....For this truth as we know they will murder Him to silence His threat to their bogus authority - and so as we see the rest is indeed a VERY twisted history...

 

[jeager106]

Because I worship God.
Jesus was human on Earth.
I follow Jesus' teachings.
The holy spirit is what God uses as a tool.
I.E. electricity flows though wires but the wire itself isn't what makes things work.
Off the top of me head that is as simple a way to explain it as I can come up with.

 

[jeager106]

@PeteC-UK
Good wordy post.
Wordy as in I won't read a very wordy post.
An essay isn't a post.
Just sayin'.
Brevity is the essence of a good report/post.
By your avatar are you suggesting Jesus smoked dope?

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Jaeger; yer but in my defense - I now have some 6000 years of deliberate religious confusion to push out the way before some legitimate and original Divine truth can actually be seen clearly - long wordy posts - entirely necassary to combat the untold amount of religious nonesense that came before me..

Dope..?...lol...what a misnomer that actually is..lol...Cannabis doesnt actually make you "dopey" Folks - it doesnt make you dumb or stupid at all - just read my long wordy posts for confirmation of that..lol. - .hash doesnt deserve such a disparaging label at all - for actually it does the complete opposite - it makes you THINK - deeply

Ganja as I prefer to call it is a physical tool that allows the mind to finally be used in a whole and complete manner (most people are severely handicapped relying on surface mind access only and this is - not natural - but a side affect of society that causes us to adopt this limited Self perception as normal) - ganja is just a tool to redress that unnatural mode we adopt that is all it is - neither good nor bad - just an available tool if we so wish..

The avater - actually is a very appropriate icon for me personally - as I will tell you directly I "met" the one we call Christ directly - have encountered the Divine Presence a few times actually - and it has been made known to me directly that it was the use of ganja and the personal exploration of MInd that actually allowed and facilitated this to happen at first - indeed I could say quite literally - that I "was in Paradise with Christ and we shared a big spliff" - and this would be experentially true for that is how the experience first played out...

Indeed as this happened it was as you can imagine - quite overwhelming - and at first I was very - ashamed - felt very unworthy - to be having this wonderous experience with Him, as indeed I use such substances regularly, had been in and out of prison all my life - was not at all "christian or righteous"..lol - and yet I swear upon my honour, He showed up anyway and even though my mortal mind was having trouble reconciling mundane mortal concerns such as drugs and lifestyle choice, things I had done in mortal life, and try reconcile all that with now revealed spiritual revelations was very troubling and uncomfortable at first - as said - I felt ashamed,unworthy.. An emotional gravity is how I describe it - literally makes you unable to think straight when in that Presence...Every knee shall bow before Him it is said - and this is an ENERGETIC and EMOTIONAL phenomena I assure you all..

And His response..?... Was to first touch me on the forehead - which lifted this emotional force somewhat - He produce as said - a "spliff" - as if He was reading my mind knowing my shame and guilt - which He then passed this to me - and as He did a clear impression - laughter - at my mortal naivete - and a clear voice told me as we laughed together - "fruit of the tree of knowledge of all good and evil" and it was made known directly - mind to mind - that this was indeed acceptable - my life - indeed, all life - all choices we make - fully acceptable - no such thing as a "lost or hopeless sinner" He said directly - do not fear He said or worry like that - no place of damnation or eternal punishment exists - Free Will is your birthright - know thy Self and Choose freely that which you will Be.....

These things said to me directly by Him - so whilst I am not saying such tools as I choose to use are "essential " or "vital" - for they are not that at all - but certainly, they DO HELP - are DESIGNED to facilitate these experiences directly and I could explain all that in depth too if you need - but certainly, there is no "judgement" about any of this made by the Divine - only MORTAL minds judge mortal events - which is all good of course here in the mundane world - except occasionally some mortals (especially on anonymous forums such as this) then try to use it to take cheap "pot shots" - pun intended - to ridicule or undermine - when really they just dont know what they are talking about

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

Hi Folks..

Jaeger; yer but in my defense - I now have some 6000 years of deliberate religious confusion to push out the way before some legitimate and original Divine truth can actually be seen clearly - long wordy posts - entirely necassary to combat the untold amount of religious nonesense that came before me..

Dope..?...lol...what a misnomer that actually is..lol...Cannabis doesnt actually make you "dopey" Folks - it doesnt make you dumb or stupid at all - just read my long wordy posts for confirmation of that..lol. - .hash doesnt deserve such a disparaging label at all - for actually it does the complete opposite - it makes you THINK - deeply

Ganja as I prefer to call it is a physical tool that allows the mind to finally be used in a whole and complete manner (most people are severely handicapped relying on surface mind access only and this is - not natural - but a side affect of society that causes us to adopt this limited Self perception as normal) - ganja is just a tool to redress that unnatural mode we adopt that is all it is - neither good nor bad - just an available tool if we so wish..

The avater - actually is a very appropriate icon for me personally - as I will tell you directly I "met" the one we call Christ directly - have encountered the Divine Presence a few times actually - and it has been made known to me directly that it was the use of ganja and the personal exploration of MInd that actually allowed and facilitated this to happen at first - indeed I could say quite literally - that I "was in Paradise with Christ and we shared a big spliff" - and this would be experentially true for that is how the experience first played out...

Indeed as this happened it was as you can imagine - quite overwhelming - and at first I was very - ashamed - felt very unworthy - to be having this wonderous experience with Him, as indeed I use such substances regularly, had been in and out of prison all my life - was not at all "christian or righteous"..lol - and yet I swear upon my honour, He showed up anyway and even though my mortal mind was having trouble reconciling mundane mortal concerns such as drugs and lifestyle choice, things I had done in mortal life, and try reconcile all that with now revealed spiritual revelations was very troubling and uncomfortable at first - as said - I felt ashamed,unworthy.. An emotional gravity is how I describe it - literally makes you unable to think straight when in that Presence...Every knee shall bow before Him it is said - and this is an ENERGETIC and EMOTIONAL phenomena I assure you all..

And His response..?... Was to first touch me on the forehead - which lifted this emotional force somewhat - He produce as said - a "spliff" - as if He was reading my mind knowing my shame and guilt - which He then passed this to me - and as He did a clear impression - laughter - at my mortal naivete - and a clear voice told me as we laughed together - "fruit of the tree of knowledge of all good and evil" and it was made known directly - mind to mind - that this was indeed acceptable - my life - indeed, all life - all choices we make - fully acceptable - no such thing as a "lost or hopeless sinner" He said directly - do not fear He said or worry like that - no place of damnation or eternal punishment exists - Free Will is your birthright - know thy Self and Choose freely that which you will Be.....

These things said to me directly by Him - so whilst I am not saying such tools as I choose to use are "essential " or "vital" - for they are not that at all - but certainly, they DO HELP - are DESIGNED to facilitate these experiences directly and I could explain all that in depth too if you need - but certainly, there is no "judgement" about any of this made by the Divine - only MORTAL minds judge mortal events - which is all good of course here in the mundane world - except occasionally some mortals (especially on anonymous forums such as this) then try to use it to take cheap "pot shots" - pun intended - to ridicule or undermine - when really they just dont know what they are talking about

Fascinating, i would love to know more of these encounters you have ... i have a similar
encounter but mine came via NDE .. so i would call him the Gatekeeper.. sad he did not wear
a name tag or make introduction .. some of the encounter is indescribable

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Eliab; Well my friend, that is precisely what I come to forums such as this for - to share my direct spiritual experiences openly - to assure people there is a legitimate Divine eternal nature - to share and learn new yet deeper truths...

That experience above, is not the first - and I hope its not the last - there have been definate stages and an unfolding progression and at first I encountered those we would term Angels many times before I encountered the One who is Christ and my mate - and you intrigue me here because along the way - I had a very strange encounter where I directly experienced what I can only call "death" - and later came to know this was a kind of "test" to see if I was ready and committed - was told I had to CHOOSE to pass this "gatekeeper" to proceed....It has been many many years since the start -and it doesnt even centre around me alone but actually and definately, other family members also who had similar encounters... My nephew Steve - eventually took his own life fully convinced he was about to free his eternal Soul to continue this SPIRITUAL journey we are all on.. Utterly convinced that all this was genuine and authentic - as am I - many many personal proofs given over the years...

Indeed the very first time I encountered any of this - it pretty much destroyed me - fully convinced I was "damned to hell" - religious confusion made me handle it all wrong and I panicked - severely - right down at the core Soul level - it TERRIFIED me - because of that which I had been taught in error.... This is why I adamantly repeatedly pull apart the religons for you all - because I have seen and experienced directly the results of their misinformation... I would be more than happy to openly discuss any of this with you (all) - but perhaps this is not the correct place for such a deep, off topic conversation .. Perhaps then, start a seperate thread with any questions - or share your own experience there ?? - yes please do - it would be fascinating and fruitful for us (all0 to compare such direct exoeriences...

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

Indeed, would be interesting to explore, for now i need sleep,
and i wonder if this is the place for the topic

 

[Kenny]

Hi Folks..

Ken; Well as I said above - please try to see the direct implications here - EVERYTHING that the religion calls truth was ALL previously recorrded in Sumer - the ENTIRE religious saga can be found in Sumer FIRST thousands of years BEFORE any Hebrew nation - and the ORIGINAL account is definately speaking of and dealing with FLESH AND BLOOD CREATURES and not "spiritual gods" at all..

I would disagree with the timeline.

My viewpoint is that it was the Pentateuch and then Sumer.

Therefore the rest of your positions are irrelevant, however, I will give you credit in that you certainly can write a thesis without any problems.

 

[Kenny]

@PeteC-UK
Good wordy post.
Wordy as in I won't read a very wordy post.
An essay isn't a post.
Just sayin'.
Brevity is the essence of a good report/post.
By your avatar are you suggesting Jesus smoked dope?

One can only wonder

And your points are extremely valid

 

[jeager106]

One can only wonder

And your points are extremely valid

Haaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Thanks for that!

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Ken; My friend - HARD EVIDENCE - what cant speak cant tell lies either...We know for sure that ALL the major Hebrew narrative IS contained in those MUCH MUCH earlier accounts from Sumer....NO WAY did any Hebrew religious tradition come first - even by the Hebrews own account we see already such civilisations as both Babylon AND Egypt established and flourishing BEFORE the Hebrew narrative even begins.. Your statement above is most obviously inaccurate - whereas the Hebrews offer bare scant details of a time BEFORE the flood - the Sumerians offer a FULL ACCOUNT that INCLUDES ALREADY quite literally every major event that will later become the Hebrew narrative...

Indeed as said the Hebrew account actually match the earlir Sumerian accounts in HISTORICAL context - same events, same places same sequence - except of course it is ALL recorded first in Sumer plain for all to see..

 

[Kenny]

Hi Folks...

Ken; My friend - HARD EVIDENCE - what cant speak cant tell lies either...We know for sure that ALL the major Hebrew narrative IS contained in those MUCH MUCH earlier accounts from Sumer....NO WAY did any Hebrew religious tradition come first - even by the Hebrews own account we see already such civilisations as both Babylon AND Egypt established and flourishing BEFORE the Hebrew narrative even begins.. Your statement above is most obviously inaccurate - whereas the Hebrews offer bare scant details of a time BEFORE the flood - the Sumerians offer a FULL ACCOUNT that INCLUDES ALREADY quite literally every major event that will later become the Hebrew narrative...

Indeed as said the Hebrew account actually match the earlir Sumerian accounts in HISTORICAL context - same events, same places same sequence - except of course it is ALL recorded first in Sumer plain for all to see..

I disagree. When God told Moses to "write down these things and rehearse them in the ears of Joshua" (paraphrased) - it was before Sumi was every written. It is no wonder that Sumi has what the Bible had already written.

Perhaps you can give me one example of what was written in Sumi before the OT with this in mind?

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Ken; Oh WHERE to eve begin my friend..??...lol...That is ENTIRELY back to front !!

When your god told Moses to write it down they had ALREADY been slaves in EGYPT - yes..??... Moses himself LED THEM out of Egypt - yes..?..

Well look then - Egypt exists obviously BEFORE the Hebrew nation - and BABYLON exists EVEN BEFORE EGYPT that the Hebrews flee from....Like Babylon and thes eORIGINAL narratives PRE DATES all that already by THOUSANDS OF YEARS !!!

Moses writes it down and it is ALREADY firm foundational belief in BOTH Babylon AND Egypt - as said it is EPIC - the Egyptian kingdom that the Hebrews will be enslaved by and then flee from in Moses time takes its OWN foundation FROM ancient Sumer !!! Their narrative spans the ENTIRE HISTORY way way WAY before the Hebrew nation ever begins !!!

To say here that Moses wrote it all down first - just shows an utter lack of academic knowledge - and a blind obediance to religious scripture that bares little resemblance to truth in the real world events.. Moses COULD NOT have been the first as his OWN TALE is recorded there IN SUMER for all to see !! Hes not called Moses of course -BUT there is a very similar account of a "royal baby" being hidden in reed baskets and a Royal Queen being duped into taking it in as her own..And yes this foundling does go on to be a major player and spokesman for one of these AMANY Sumerian gods - so for sure - "moses" of the bible is once again just another plaigerised character that is first encountered ancient Sumer - as they all are !!

 

[Kenny]

Hi Folks...

Ken; Oh WHERE to eve begin my friend..??...lol...That is ENTIRELY back to front !!

When your god told Moses to write it down they had ALREADY been slaves in EGYPT - yes..??... Moses himself LED THEM out of Egypt - yes..?..

Well look then - Egypt exists obviously BEFORE the Hebrew nation - and BABYLON exists EVEN BEFORE EGYPT that the Hebrews flee from....Like Babylon and thes eORIGINAL narratives PRE DATES all that already by THOUSANDS OF YEARS !!!

Moses writes it down and it is ALREADY firm foundational belief in BOTH Babylon AND Egypt - as said it is EPIC - the Egyptian kingdom that the Hebrews will be enslaved by and then flee from in Moses time takes its OWN foundation FROM ancient Sumer !!! Their narrative spans the ENTIRE HISTORY way way WAY before the Hebrew nation ever begins !!!

To say here that Moses wrote it all down first - just shows an utter lack of academic knowledge - and a blind obediance to religious scripture that bares little resemblance to truth in the real world events.. Moses COULD NOT have been the first as his OWN TALE is recorded there IN SUMER for all to see !! Hes not called Moses of course -BUT there is a very similar account of a "royal baby" being hidden in reed baskets and a Royal Queen being duped into taking it in as her own..And yes this foundling does go on to be a major player and spokesman for one of these AMANY Sumerian gods - so for sure - "moses" of the bible is once again just another plaigerised character that is first encountered ancient Sumer - as they all are !!

Good... I will agree with you that Sumerians lived before Moses and you finally added substance to just declaring things.

It is substantiated by the following:

"Moses was born in Egypt on the 7th of Adar of the year 2368 from creation (1393 BCE)"
" The Sumerian King List is a cuneiform document, written by a scribe of the city of Lavash, sometime around 2100 BCE"

So let me ask you a question - if Abraham lived in the same area... is there a reason why the historical data would be different?

 

[Politesse]

I am not a strict monotheist, nor even a monolatrist. However, I do disagree with the claim that Trinitarianism posits separate gods. It doesn't; if separate personhood makes for different gods, even the gods of polytheistic traditions are greater in number than normally thought, as they take on different bodies and forms over the years too.

I see the relationship of God to the universe as analogous to the heat warming the earth from the sun. We have other things that give heat here - fire, magma,living bodies. But this doesn't change the fact that ultimately, our planet has but one source of energy. The other loci of that enrgy are exactly that; stops along the way that reveal the intrinsic nature of God to us in little ways. I certainly don't think Jesus thought himself the only child of god; if he did, he certainly never said so. Rather, he was trying to teach us that we are all God's offspring.

 

[Kenny]

Hi Folks..

Jaeger; yer but in my defense - I now have some 6000 years of deliberate religious confusion to push out the way before some legitimate and original Divine truth can actually be seen clearly - long wordy posts - entirely necassary to combat the untold amount of religious nonesense that came before me..

Dope..?...lol...what a misnomer that actually is..lol...Cannabis doesnt actually make you "dopey" Folks - it doesnt make you dumb or stupid at all - just read my long wordy posts for confirmation of that..lol. - .hash doesnt deserve such a disparaging label at all - for actually it does the complete opposite - it makes you THINK - deeply

Ganja as I prefer to call it is a physical tool that allows the mind to finally be used in a whole and complete manner (most people are severely handicapped relying on surface mind access only and this is - not natural - but a side affect of society that causes us to adopt this limited Self perception as normal) - ganja is just a tool to redress that unnatural mode we adopt that is all it is - neither good nor bad - just an available tool if we so wish..

The avater - actually is a very appropriate icon for me personally - as I will tell you directly I "met" the one we call Christ directly - have encountered the Divine Presence a few times actually - and it has been made known to me directly that it was the use of ganja and the personal exploration of MInd that actually allowed and facilitated this to happen at first - indeed I could say quite literally - that I "was in Paradise with Christ and we shared a big spliff" - and this would be experentially true for that is how the experience first played out...

Indeed as this happened it was as you can imagine - quite overwhelming - and at first I was very - ashamed - felt very unworthy - to be having this wonderous experience with Him, as indeed I use such substances regularly, had been in and out of prison all my life - was not at all "christian or righteous"..lol - and yet I swear upon my honour, He showed up anyway and even though my mortal mind was having trouble reconciling mundane mortal concerns such as drugs and lifestyle choice, things I had done in mortal life, and try reconcile all that with now revealed spiritual revelations was very troubling and uncomfortable at first - as said - I felt ashamed,unworthy.. An emotional gravity is how I describe it - literally makes you unable to think straight when in that Presence...Every knee shall bow before Him it is said - and this is an ENERGETIC and EMOTIONAL phenomena I assure you all..

And His response..?... Was to first touch me on the forehead - which lifted this emotional force somewhat - He produce as said - a "spliff" - as if He was reading my mind knowing my shame and guilt - which He then passed this to me - and as He did a clear impression - laughter - at my mortal naivete - and a clear voice told me as we laughed together - "fruit of the tree of knowledge of all good and evil" and it was made known directly - mind to mind - that this was indeed acceptable - my life - indeed, all life - all choices we make - fully acceptable - no such thing as a "lost or hopeless sinner" He said directly - do not fear He said or worry like that - no place of damnation or eternal punishment exists - Free Will is your birthright - know thy Self and Choose freely that which you will Be.....

These things said to me directly by Him - so whilst I am not saying such tools as I choose to use are "essential " or "vital" - for they are not that at all - but certainly, they DO HELP - are DESIGNED to facilitate these experiences directly and I could explain all that in depth too if you need - but certainly, there is no "judgement" about any of this made by the Divine - only MORTAL minds judge mortal events - which is all good of course here in the mundane world - except occasionally some mortals (especially on anonymous forums such as this) then try to use it to take cheap "pot shots" - pun intended - to ridicule or undermine - when really they just don't know what they are talking about

There are a couple of problems that I would have with your positions in context of my belief system...

1) It assumes that all belief systems were deliberate in its effort to confuse you. My viewpoint is that Judaism isn't confusing and the New Testament isn't either (although a Jew may hold that my NT is to deliberately placed to confuse people)
2) It assumes that your spiritual experience was from God. In my Christian world view, a spiritual experience could also be from a devil. Mohammad also had a spiritual experience.
3) It violates my plumb line that there is a judgment
4) Satan also comes as "an angel of light" -- though he has nothing to do with God.
5) Witchcraft, in the Greek, is farmakiah where we get the word Pharmaceuticals. We don't need dope to reach and hear God... but it does open the door to the demon world. (I speak in the context of Christian world view.)

In my perspective, you just might take the next step and call yourself the Christ as one of many that Jesus predicted about.