jesus and prophecies .. strange! .. but true

[Xchristian]

hello all


I have been thinking in my xtian days of jesus as so many things at the same time, he's god incarnate, son of god, part of trinity, messenger of god, prophet, he's love, price of peace, king of kings .. etc ..

with time things fell down so rapidly.

jesus was never a king, he was a simple peasant jew who was executed according to the laws of his days ..

You're alright to think of his kingdom as a heavenly kingdom, but buy a 20 pounds ticket to France and you will see the sky, it's empty! perhaps for people who didn't have this chance, it was possible for them, but having seen the skies, there's no more to take in.
Now learn about what happens if you go up and up and that there's stratosphere and that he would freeze just going a few miles up, and you will be sure, this upheaval thing is an old man's trick, pretty much like what grandma said about grandad when he passed on, he went up there!

He is definitely not prince of peace, this man would put you in hell fire if you don't believe him, what's peaceful about that? what's peaceful about putting the majority of the creation in hell?

what' so good about having no chance and being born with a sin you never even heard of?

I thought, alright, he's a messenger.
Ok who's the sender? .. himself. What's the message? who knows..

That's fine, he's a prophet.
fine, what prophecy did he make and came true?
it's all in the future, nothing happened as of yet.

If anyone who knows of a 'prophecy' that came true, then by all means, let's see it!
(and I mean SEE it)

{the 'this generation' prophecy has not come true, and xtians have not even helped by giving illogical alternatives, you can skip that one}

 

[Xchristian]

A respectful member suggested in another thread that jesus was like Moses, she can tell us here in what ways he was like Moses.

 

[Desert Snake]

What's the scripture you're referencing

 

[Xchristian]

she's using something from Deu I think.

 

[BSM1]

Maybe you missed the part where Yeshua told you where the Kingdom of God existed. Not saying you're wrong in your belief, but maybe you put to much stock in what you were told rather than looking for yourself.

 

[Xchristian]

is it alright to say that it's Luke who said so in Luke 17?

 

[BSM1]

is it alright to say that it's Luke who said so in Luke 17?

Said what?

 

[Muffled]

hello all


I have been thinking in my xtian days of jesus as so many things at the same time, he's god incarnate, son of god, part of trinity, messenger of god, prophet, he's love, price of peace, king of kings .. etc ..

with time things fell down so rapidly.

jesus was never a king, he was a simple peasant jew who was executed according to the laws of his days ..

You're alright to think of his kingdom as a heavenly kingdom, but buy a 20 pounds ticket to France and you will see the sky, it's empty! perhaps for people who didn't have this chance, it was possible for them, but having seen the skies, there's no more to take in.
Now learn about what happens if you go up and up and that there's stratosphere and that he would freeze just going a few miles up, and you will be sure, this upheaval thing is an old man's trick, pretty much like what grandma said about grandad when he passed on, he went up there!

He is definitely not prince of peace, this man would put you in hell fire if you don't believe him, what's peaceful about that? what's peaceful about putting the majority of the creation in hell?

what' so good about having no chance and being born with a sin you never even heard of?

I thought, alright, he's a messenger.
Ok who's the sender? .. himself. What's the message? who knows..

That's fine, he's a prophet.
fine, what prophecy did he make and came true?
it's all in the future, nothing happened as of yet.

If anyone who knows of a 'prophecy' that came true, then by all means, let's see it!
(and I mean SEE it)

{the 'this generation' prophecy has not come true, and xtians have not even helped by giving illogical alternatives, you can skip that one}

I believe there is no doubt your house was built on sand.

Jesus is my King. I believe that makes your statement false.

Not in the sky: Lu 17:21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you

Unless Jesus was received by a chariot of fire as Elijah was. I believe since he was hidden in the clouds no-one could see how and where He went.

That is not absolutely correct. A person is judged by his deeds. A Christian is judged by his belief in Jesus. I believe peace comes after receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior.

I believe the message isThe Kingdom of God has come.

I believe this prophecy has come true: 1 ¶ And Jesus went out from the temple, and was going on his way; and his disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple.
2 But he answered and said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

[Xchristian]

: Lu 17:21

I told you brother, it's Luke who said it.

 

[Xchristian]

I believe this prophecy has come true: 1 ¶ And Jesus went out from the temple, and was going on his way; and his disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple.
2 But he answered and said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

1- The wailing wall is still there, it certainly was part of what their eyes fell upon.
2- There's no reason to force me to believe that this was written BEFORE the event.

So ...

I am sorry, your belief here is not right.

 

[Xchristian]

prophecies that came true anybody?

 

[savagewind]

prophecies that came true anybody?

Yes, many prophesies by Jesus have come true and are coming true. Which? I can not say. It would turn into a word's war, wouldn't it? I avoid war whenever I can. I'm getting better at it.

 

[Xchristian]

[Pt1 3:15][ but in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you;]


I, for one, now don't believe in any prophecies .. any one to answer the epistle above's request?

 

[savagewind]

[Pt1 3:15][ but in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you;]


I, for one, now don't believe in any prophecies .. any one to answer the epistle above's request?

Hope is not the same as a witness. Hope is for something that is not yet. Prophesies fulfilled are things that are real (to the observer). Things hoped for are not real yet.

 

[Xchristian]

Thanks savagewind, you enlightened no end ..

 

[The Sum of Awe]

jesus was never a king, he was a simple peasant jew who was executed according to the laws of his days ..

So...? You're not a king, should we not consider you at all?

He is definitely not prince of peace, this man would put you in hell fire if you don't believe him, what's peaceful about that? what's peaceful about putting the majority of the creation in hell?

Now, I saw nothing in the Bible as convincing evidence as the Trinity, but I guess if you only consider the Trinity, we'll have to disagree. But, God is the one threatening hellfire, not Jesus. Jesus was a hippie who believed in Judaism, a peace lover, he never talked about hell or torture, he never threatened. Yahweh, on the other hand, just has the "get off my lawn" attitude.

what' so good about having no chance and being born with a sin you never even heard of?

That's like asking Siddartha Buddha what is fair about being born with suffering.

We've heard of the sins, and there is definitely a chance for everyone to be sinless.

I thought, alright, he's a messenger.
Ok who's the sender? .. himself. What's the message? who knows..

There doesn't need to be a sender. The message is a moral, metaphysical, and ontological philosophy.

That's fine, he's a prophet.
fine, what prophecy did he make and came true?
it's all in the future, nothing happened as of yet.

He's a prophet? Oh dear Lord

 

[Xchristian]

Now, I saw nothing in the Bible as convincing evidence as the Trinity,

and hence the addition of the fake 1John5-7 .. cheers

 

[Pegg]

I have been thinking in my xtian days of jesus as so many things at the same time, he's god incarnate, son of god, part of trinity, messenger of god, prophet, he's love, price of peace, king of kings .. etc ..
with time things fell down so rapidly.

with so many contradictory beliefs, of course things will fall down.

The problem is not with Jesus though....the problem is that people who teach about Jesus are wrong. However, i will show you what the bible says about each of your points....the bible has a clear concise and reasonable answer to each of your theological problems.

jesus was never a king, he was a simple peasant jew who was executed according to the laws of his days ..

A king is a person who has subjects...those subjects honor and respect him and they will support his rulership.

Today there are millions of people on earth who have devoted themselves to be Jesus subjects and who do honor and respect him and support his rulership in their own lives. They live by his laws, uphold his values and teachings and support his interests.

That makes Jesus a king in every sense of the word. Zechariah 9:10 says: “He [the Prince of Peace] will actually speak peace to the nations; and his rulership will be from sea to sea and from the [Euphrates] River to the ends of the earth.”

You're alright to think of his kingdom as a heavenly kingdom, but buy a 20 pounds ticket to France and you will see the sky, it's empty! perhaps for people who didn't have this chance, it was possible for them, but having seen the skies, there's no more to take in.
Now learn about what happens if you go up and up and that there's stratosphere and that he would freeze just going a few miles up, and you will be sure, this upheaval thing is an old man's trick, pretty much like what grandma said about grandad when he passed on, he went up there!

Gods dwelling is not merely in the sky. He created this entire universe....so he obviously cannot exist within it if he created it. Mankind cannot get outside the universe apparently.... this is a physical realm and my guess is that outside this physical realm is a metaphysical realm where God and his heavenly armies reside.

He is definitely not prince of peace, this man would put you in hell fire if you don't believe him, what's peaceful about that? what's peaceful about putting the majority of the creation in hell?

The word Hell in the english bibles is translated from the word 'sheol'. Sheol is the hebrew word for 'grave'
The King James bible says that Jesus himself went to 'hell' for 3 days. If hell is anything like what the churches are teaching ( a place of firey torment ) then how is it that Jesus himself went there?

The truth is that the bible 'hell' is nothing more then the 'grave' of man. It is where a person is buried when they are dead.

Ask a priest who teaches the hellfire teaching to explain to you Acts 2:27...ask him why Jesus was in hell.

what' so good about having no chance and being born with a sin you never even heard of?
I thought, alright, he's a messenger.
Ok who's the sender? .. himself. What's the message? who knows..

John 6:38 because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 This is the will of him that sent me, that I should lose nothing out of all that he has given me but that I should resurrect it at the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone that beholds the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him at the last day.”

Jesus was sent by God Almighty Jehovah. The message is one of salvation for all those who want to live forever. God wants mankind to live eternally...any who want such a future on earth need to put their faith in Christ and live according to the teachings of Christ....that was Jesus message.

That's fine, he's a prophet.
fine, what prophecy did he make and came true?
it's all in the future, nothing happened as of yet.

He foretold the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans:
Luke 21:20 “Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near.
Luke 19:43 Because the days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification with pointed stakes and will encircle you and distress you from every side,

MARK 13 he foretold the rising of 'false Christs' which has occured even in our days
5 “So Jesus started to say to them: ‘Look out that nobody misleads you. 6 Many will come on the basis of my name, saying, “I am he,” and will mislead many.

he foretold that earthwide would see an increase in wars, earthquakes, foodshortages all occuring simultaneously...the called it the 'sign of his presence'
8 “‘For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, there will be earthquakes in one place after another, there will be food shortages. These are a beginning of pangs of distress.

He fortold that society as a whole would become increasingly lawless
Matthew 24:12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.

He foretold that during all this distress, the good news of Gods kingdom would be preached in all the nations on earth...this has only been happening since the early 1900's...today, bibles and preaching are found in almost all nations on earth.
Matthew 24:14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

 

[Xchristian]

A king is a person who has subjects...those subjects honor and respect him and they will support his rulership.

That's if he doesn't say he is not a king, and that Cesar is the rightful king.

Today there are millions of people on earth who have devoted themselves to be Jesus subjects and who do honor and respect him and support his rulership in their own lives. They live by his laws, uphold his values and teachings and support his interests.

That's by way of allegory right? .. so still he is not king.

That makes Jesus a king in every sense of the word. Zechariah 9:10 says: “He [the Prince of Peace] will actually speak peace to the nations; and his rulership will be from sea to sea and from the [Euphrates] River to the ends of the earth.”

prince of peace who puts disbelievers in hell fire, what kind of peace is that?
Also Zechariah was talking about someone, not jesus, not christ.

Gods dwelling is not merely in the sky. He created this entire universe....so he obviously cannot exist within it if he created it. Mankind cannot get outside the universe apparently.... this is a physical realm and my guess is that outside this physical realm is a metaphysical realm where God and his heavenly armies reside.

Duh?

The word Hell in the english bibles is translated from the word 'sheol'. Sheol is the hebrew word for 'grave'
The King James bible says that Jesus himself went to 'hell' for 3 days. If hell is anything like what the churches are teaching ( a place of firey torment ) then how is it that Jesus himself went there?

how about Gehenna?

The truth is that the bible 'hell' is nothing more then the 'grave' of man. It is where a person is buried when they are dead.

your choice

Ask a priest who teaches the hellfire teaching to explain to you Acts 2:27...ask him why Jesus was in hell.

I can tell you, ...
If you know that the author tried to fix this to jesus when it has nothing to do with him, you will understand.

Jesus was sent by God Almighty Jehovah. The message is one of salvation for all those who want to live forever. God wants mankind to live eternally...any who want such a future on earth need to put their faith in Christ and live according to the teachings of Christ....that was Jesus message.

the underlined made my day, thank you.

He foretold the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans:

The books were written AFTER the destruction, so we can't really be sure.
Also, how can you tell it's true if it actually is not true?

not a single stone ..
we have the wailing wall ..

he foretold that earthwide would see an increase in wars, earthquakes, foodshortages all occuring simultaneously...the called it the 'sign of his presence'

I am quite sure this is like a prophecy that there will be war in Iraq in 2003 .. made in 2002 ..

They call this kind of thing .. expecting the obvious ..

He fortold that society as a whole would become increasingly lawless
Matthew 24:12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.

Are you aware that there are thousands of seers who expected the very same thing? one of them is called mad and crazy!

He foretold that during all this distress, the good news of Gods kingdom would be preached in all the nations on earth...this has only been happening since the early 1900's...today, bibles and preaching are found in almost all nations on earth.
Matthew 24:14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

what kingdom?

can you please give me something solid to accept?
I know a lot of people made claims and they just ended up not happening.
Respect to you being a JW but that' s one group known for prophecies not happening right?

 

[Pegg]

christians are in 'expectation' of Christ returning & of Armageddon occuring. While putting a date on it is incorrect, it is not incorrect to view the nearness of these things....Jesus wanted his followers to 'keep in expectation' and to 'keep on the watch'

if Christians didnt think the end was coming soon, then they would not be keeping on the watch as Jesus said we should. So i wouldnt be so concerned about the fact that some have said the end is coming tomorrow, but it didnt happen.

the issue would be if a christian didnt believe the end was coming at all. that would be unfortunate. BTW, the bible doesnt actually give a date...it only gives a 'sign'...JW's recognized the beginning of the 'sign' back in the early 1900's and that is why they wrongly believed that the end was upon them.