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Jesus Christ (learning salvation)

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Based on this verse, would define him as the suffering servant in Isaiah 53.... The Hebrew does now say 'Salvation of our God'; yet regardless in the context of the sentence and chapter, it makes far more sense Yeshua was an Elohim to begin with, and would explain why he could defy the normal physics of this reality. :innocent:
That completely went over my head. Suffering servent-arch angel?
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
That completely went over my head. Suffering servent-arch angel?
Lol, sorry... There is a debate over who fulfilled Isaiah 53; they say the suffering servant is ambiguous (Jewish people vs Yeshua).
Where as I'm saying it is stated in that verse (Isaiah 52:10), and that the term Yeshua Elohim would mean he is an angel. ;)
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Ive noticed ;) by the way why do you use xy or Xtian?
It's a more-or-less universal contraction for "Christianity" and "Christian." The "X" is the chi -- the first Greek letter in the word "Christ." That's where the term "Xmas" comes from.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Lol, sorry... There is a debate over who fulfilled Isaiah 53; they say the suffering servant is ambiguous (Jewish people vs Yeshua).
Where as I'm saying it is stated in that verse (Isaiah 52:10), and that the term Yeshua Elohim would mean he is an angel. ;)
Ha. I wont pretend to be an expert, isnt Elohim another name for Jesus as is the word Christ, Prophet, and High Priest?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Ah.

Was thinking there was a debate on this too where christians were saying their faith is disrespected by not using the full name. Similiar to tami g God out of the pledge of alliegence. Different thread though.

Thanks.
I don't think it's disrespectful...
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Ha. I wont pretend to be an expert, isnt Elohim another name for Jesus as is the word Christ, Prophet, and High Priest?
Elohim is plural of El (God)... This is why in the beginning it says the gods created us, as the word Elohim is used.
YHVH Elohim is what is referenced throughout much of the Bible.
Elohim depending on context can mean God, gods, Angels, etc.

Christ means an anointed one, a messiah is someone anointed and The Messiah is the person who will rule in the Messianic age. ;)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Elohim is plural of El (God)... This is why in the beginning it says the gods created us, as the word Elohim is used.
YHVH Elohim is what is referenced throughout much of the Bible.
Elohim depending on context can mean God, gods, Angels, etc.

Christ means an anointed one, a messiah is someone anointed and The Messiah is the person who will rule in the Messianic age. ;)
That could be confusing as to Christianity being monotheist or polytheistic? "Unless" it is the language barriar to where in Hebrew even though the word Elohim is plural the consensus between believera is the meaning is singular. Does that make sense? I like how you view Christianity, thats why I asked your faith. Was thinking Messanic Jew.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Okay. Here is the clause:

The answer cannot be from personal experience. I understand a personal conviction of how one is saved and why.

According to Paul, one is save by the word he(Paul) preaches.
1 Corinthians 15.

I assume one is saved from death because Jesus physically resurrected.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
According to Paul, one is save by the word he(Paul) preaches.
1 Corinthians 15.

I assume one is saved from death because Jesus physically resurrected.
I understand that. The question is not asking for spiritual, metaphysical, theological anwers. It is simply using a literal person who is drowning (no book, cant swim, no boat), who is alone. He is suddenly plucked from the water, saved. We can say by our personal beliefs who saved him, but they are personal beliefs and convictions. What im asking is how or who saved him to which jil in Africa and Will in japan will understand. Similar to both unxerstanding one and one makes two. To describe your beliefs of that equatin they may not understand so im leaving that part out.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
That could be confusing as to Christianity being monotheist or polytheistic?
This is where the topic becomes interesting... According to Canaanite beliefs, El is the head of the pantheon, YHVH one of his off spring... Jews claim their religion has always been monotheistic; yet there are tons of verses indicating otherwise.
Deut. 32:8–9 said:
When Elyon divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he established the borders of the nations according to the number of the sons of the gods. Yahweh’s portion was his people, [Israel] his allotted inheritance.
Which matches what we find within the Canaanite belief. o_O
"Unless" it is the language barrier to where in Hebrew even though the word Elohim is plural the consensus between believers is the meaning is singular.
There is a language barrier, as Jews insist it can be used either plural or singular depending on context, which in some cases might be correct. Yet what if originally, it was the gods who created us and they've slowly tried to impose monotheism; when the majority of texts globally, say otherwise. :hushed:
I like how you view Christianity, thats why I asked your faith. Was thinking Messanic Jew.
Though I've got lots of qualities similar to a Messianic Jew; there is loads more to my understanding, as you can gleam from this post.... I want the truth of what we know, and don't settle at being put into a box. :innocent:
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Innterresting. I would not be a bit surprised if judaism and even christianity is polytheistic.
That would make more sense given a lot of ethnic faiths are in a sense polytheistic ans im assuming thats the original mindset of believers in deities.

Dont worry, I didnt have a box set aside for you. ;)


This is where the topic becomes interesting... According to Canaanite beliefs, El is the head of the pantheon, YHVH one of his off spring... Jews claim their religion has always been monotheistic; yet there are tons of verses indicating otherwise.

Which matches what we find within the Canaanite belief. o_O

There is a language barrier, as Jews insist it can be used either plural or singular depending on context, which in some cases might be correct. Yet what if originally, it was the gods who created us and they've slowly tried to impose monotheism; when the majority of texts globally, say otherwise. :hushed:

Though I've got lots of qualities similar to a Messianic Jew; there is loads more to my understanding, as you can gleam from this post.... I want the truth of what we know, and don't settle at being put into a box. :innocent:
 

lovemuffin

τὸν ἄρτον τοῦ ἔρωτος
If you google Elohist and Jahwist you can find articles that talk about various theories of the different authors of the Torah texts. There are reasons to think the Elohist source represents a polytheistic tradition, that probably became monotheistic over time, although from my limited reading it seems like scholarly views on this are not settled.

I don't really think it means anything with regard to Christianity being "polytheistic", simply because it would be a mistake to think that some ancient Hebrews being polytheistic would dictate Christian theology. It's better to just realize that there is no single thing as "Christian" theology, or even Jewish theology. There are traditions and views that evolve over time. It might be reasonable to say that Trinitarian Christianity is not strictly monotheistic, at least not in the same way that Islam is.
 
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