Jesus Christ (learning salvation)

[Unveiled Artist]

Okay. Here is the clause:

The answer cannot be from personal experience. I understand a personal conviction of how one is saved and why.

The answer can be "supported" not replaced by any scripture of any denomination.

It has to be objective. You have to separate yourself and answer the question as if you are describing two and two is four without voicing why you believe you arrived to that answer and interpretations of that answer.

This is a common question but the way of a answering I have not seen changed from the usual answers.

Question: Literally not spiritually, metaphorically, analogically, how does a person who is not present now save you from you feeling you are condemmed by sin?

For example, take a parent and child. Both are ice skating. The child slides on thin ice and falls in. The parent is in a position to where in order to save her child she has to die in his place;so, she does. The child is grateful for his life and sad at the lost of His mother. This say happened in 1995.

Take that same example. In 1995 say monday feb 6 you are skating on ice alone. You fall in thin ice. You call for help. No one is there. Somehow you are magically taken from the water.

Without spiritual terms who saved you? Why would you assume it was someone who lived 2,000 years ago?

Logically with no one there how were you saved?

(Reminder: im not geting alerts to new threads pm that you replied if youre first poster. Other posters click 'reply')

 

[nilsz]

From how you have described the scenario, the answer is unknown.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

From how you have described the scenario, the answer is unknown.

Yeah. Since its literal salvation and people believe it is a fact they are saved i thought id take the spiritualness from it and view it in a raw perspective.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Okay. Here is the clause:

The answer cannot be from personal experience. I understand a personal conviction of how one is saved and why.

The answer can be "supported" not replaced by any scripture of any denomination.

It has to be objective. You have to separate yourself and answer the question as if you are describing two and two is four without voicing why you believe you arrived to that answer and interpretations of that answer.

This is a common question but the way of a answering I have not seen changed from the usual answers.

Question: Literally not spiritually, metaphorically, analogically, how does a person who is not present now save you from you feeling you are condemmed by sin?

For example, take a parent and child. Both are ice skating. The child slides on thin ice and falls in. The parent is in a position to where in order to save her child she has to die in his place;so, she does. The child is grateful for his life and sad at the lost of His mother. This say happened in 1995.

Take that same example. In 1995 say monday feb 6 you are skating on ice alone. You fall in thin ice. You call for help. No one is there. Somehow you are magically taken from the water.

Without spiritual terms who saved you? Why would you assume it was someone who lived 2,000 years ago?

Logically with no one there how were you saved?

(Reminder: im not geting alerts to new threads pm that you replied if youre first poster. Other posters click 'reply')

God works all things for the good of those who love Him. (Romans 8:28) All things are God's will, and so I would believe God had saved me in the ice scenario.

On the question of salvation, the Holy Spirit gives us new life through Christ, we are "born again" as Jesus told Nicodemus. In today's terms, Nicodemus was like an Oxford professor and a government minister and a theologian all rolled into one person. If anyone was going to know about salvation, Nicodemus should have. He followed all the rules, he knew the law. And Jesus totally stumped him when he told Nicodemus, this intellectual, who by our standards we'd probably consider a "good" man, Jesus tells him, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." This is what the Holy Spirit does, this is what happens as we truly put our trust in Jesus. We are born again to new life, freed from condemnation and freed from slavery to sinfulness.

Jesus is present, just as God is present all around us, working always. He is here working all things for the good of His people, not even a dice is thrown without its outcome being decided by God. (Proverbs 16:33)

 

[Awoon]

God works all things for the good of those who love Him. (Romans 8:28) All things are God's will, and so I would believe God had saved me in the ice scenario.

On the question of salvation, the Holy Spirit gives us new life through Christ, we are "born again" as Jesus told Nicodemus. In today's terms, Nicodemus was like an Oxford professor and a government minister and a theologian all rolled into one person. If anyone was going to know about salvation, Nicodemus should have. He followed all the rules, he knew the law. And Jesus totally stumped him when he told Nicodemus, this intellectual, who by our standards we'd probably consider a "good" man, Jesus tells him, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." This is what the Holy Spirit does, this is what happens as we truly put our trust in Jesus. We are born again to new life, freed from condemnation and freed from slavery to sinfulness.

Jesus is present, just as God is present all around us, working always. He is here working all things for the good of His people, not even a dice is thrown without its outcome being decided by God. (Proverbs 16:33)

If Romans 8: 28 were true no one would be posting in here giving opinions about religions. Thus no God works anything for the good of those who love it because the writer of that verse Paul, bi.... about all his problems.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

If Romans 8: 28 were true no one would be posting in here giving opinions about religions. Thus no God works anything for the good of those who love it because the writer of that verse Paul, bi.... about all his problems.

When Paul asks God to remove his thorn, God tells him His grace is sufficient.

Through famine, persecution, illness, good health and bad health, I still believe God works all things for the good. Just one aspect of this would be Paul's words on suffering: suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope.

Working things "for the good" doesn't mean prosperity gospel, it doesn't mean the Christian is going to have a materially rich life and great health. But rather they will find true joy, whether it be in good health or affliction, in Christ. Ultimately all things are purposed for the good.

 

[Awoon]

When Paul asks God to remove his thorn, God tells him His grace is sufficient.

Through famine, persecution, illness, good health and bad health, I still believe God works all things for the good. Just one aspect of this would be Paul's words on suffering: suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope.

Working things "for the good" doesn't mean prosperity gospel, it doesn't mean the Christian is going to have a materially rich life and great health. But rather they will find true joy, whether it be in good health or affliction, in Christ. Ultimately all things are purposed for the good.

Paul wouldn't even mention anything if Romans 8:28 were true. He would shut up and bite the bullet. Instead he chose to complain.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Paul wouldn't even mention anything if Romans 8:28 were true. He would shut up and bite the bullet. Instead he chose to complain.

Could you provide a verse where Paul "complains"? He speaks about his many afflictions and often rejoices in them, or speaks about how he asked God to remove it but was told His grace is sufficient, or had to speak about his afflictions because he was challenged for not being a true Apostle.

 

[Awoon]

Could you provide a verse where Paul "complains"? He speaks about his many afflictions and often rejoices in them, or speaks about how he asked God to remove it but was told His grace is sufficient, or had to speak about his afflictions because he was challenged for not being a true Apostle.

His afflictions are COMPLAINTS. A pregnant Mother in labor would not care about poor Paul falling off a boat or beaten up. Paul LOVES to beat his own chest.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

His afflictions are COMPLAINTS. A pregnant Mother in labor would not care about poor Paul falling off a boat or beaten up. Paul LOVES to beat his own chest.

Could you give the exact set of verses, to shed some light on what you're referring to?

 

[Awoon]

Could you give the exact set of verses, to shed some light on what you're referring to?

All of his Epistles. Start reading them.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

All of his Epistles. Start reading them.

I am aware of times when Paul mentions his afflictions, but they are all with good reason, often he was challenged for being false.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you. I understand the conviction. I dont believe this answered the questiin though ive always wanted to know who nicodmous is.

The basic question is how can a person who is literally drowning and magically taken out of the pool saved; who saved that person given he is alone?

God works all things for the good of those who love Him. (Romans 8:28) All things are God's will, and so I would believe God had saved me in the ice scenario.

On the question of salvation, the Holy Spirit gives us new life through Christ, we are "born again" as Jesus told Nicodemus. In today's terms, Nicodemus was like an Oxford professor and a government minister and a theologian all rolled into one person. If anyone was going to know about salvation, Nicodemus should have. He followed all the rules, he knew the law. And Jesus totally stumped him when he told Nicodemus, this intellectual, who by our standards we'd probably consider a "good" man, Jesus tells him, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." This is what the Holy Spirit does, this is what happens as we truly put our trust in Jesus. We are born again to new life, freed from condemnation and freed from slavery to sinfulness.

Jesus is present, just as God is present all around us, working always. He is here working all things for the good of His people, not even a dice is thrown without its outcome being decided by God. (Proverbs 16:33)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Im serious guys. How is a person saved by someone who is not there? (Aka example) salvation could not be a fact if there is no ability to be saved when alone.

 

[Pegg]

Okay. Here is the clause:

The answer cannot be from personal experience. I understand a personal conviction of how one is saved and why.

The answer can be "supported" not replaced by any scripture of any denomination.

It has to be objective. You have to separate yourself and answer the question as if you are describing two and two is four without voicing why you believe you arrived to that answer and interpretations of that answer.

This is a common question but the way of a answering I have not seen changed from the usual answers.

Question: Literally not spiritually, metaphorically, analogically, how does a person who is not present now save you from you feeling you are condemmed by sin?

God made a promise.

The promises of God will become a reality.... if not right now, then certainly in the future.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes. My I understand your personal conviction.

My question though is if you are skating alone and you fall into thin ice, you are magically saved from the water, who saved you? Did you feel someone pick you up even though you cannot see them? How do you associate who saved you in 1995 with someone who lived 2,000 years before you were born?

God made a promise.

The promises of God will become a reality.... if not right now, then certainly in the future.

 

[InChrist]

Im serious guys. How is a person saved by someone who is not there? (Aka example) salvation could not be a fact if there is no ability to be saved when alone.

According to the scriptures no one is really ever alone. The LORD GOD is present everywhere and has the ability to save anyone who calls on Him.

The LORD is near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth. Psalm 145:18

The eyes of the LORD are in every place, Watching the evil and the good.. Proverbs 15:3

"Am I a God who is near," declares the LORD, "And not a God far off? "Can a man hide himself in hiding places So I do not see him?" declares the LORD "Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?" declares the LORD. Jeremiah 23:23-24

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I can understand that. That leads to the other question since that person is magically pulled from the water what makes him think he was saved (literally) by someone 2,000 years before his time?

According to the scriptures no one is really ever alone. The LORD GOD is present everywhere and has the ability to save anyone who calls on Him.

The LORD is near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth. Psalm 145:18

The eyes of the LORD are in every place, Watching the evil and the good.. Proverbs 15:3

"Am I a God who is near," declares the LORD, "And not a God far off? "Can a man hide himself in hiding places So I do not see him?" declares the LORD "Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?" declares the LORD. Jeremiah 23:23-24

 

[Pegg]

Yes. My I understand your personal conviction.

My question though is if you are skating alone and you fall into thin ice, you are magically saved from the water, who saved you? Did you feel someone pick you up even though you cannot see them? How do you associate who saved you in 1995 with someone who lived 2,000 years before you were born?

Nup, im completely lost. I dont understand the question or how the illustration applies.

 

[wizanda]

To answer your question, the person isn't only alive two thousand years ago; neither did something that happened two thousand years ago save anyone.
Angels are constantly watching this reality, and there are countless stories of people being pulled out of disasters.
So why would God save anyone, because of merit and maybe their affects on destiny.