paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is it another denomination above the 30000+ denominations?To be fair, you sort of did that yourself though
To cheer you up, here's one of your new look Christians
Regards
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Jesus did not die on the Cross
- Thread starter paarsurrey
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Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
You are simply wrong.
I give the text of the Quran verse 3:55 in Arabic, its transliteration in Roman alphabetic and the correct translations below:
Arabic
Transliteration
Yousulf Ali and some or many other translators have translated the verse incorrectly. Quranic text in original Arabic is only Word of G-d, not the translations.
Wahiduddin Khan
Safi Kaskas God said, "Jesus, I will cause you to die and raise you up to me, and purify you from those who denied the truth, and I will exalt your followers over those who deny you until the Resurrection Day. Then you all will return to me, and I will judge between you in matters about which you disagree.
[Al-Muntakhab]
[The Monotheist Group] (2011 Edition)
Abdul Majid Daryabadi
Shabbir Ahmed
Dr. Mohammad Tahir-ul-Qadri
Dr. Kamal Omar Behold! Allah said: “O Iesa! Certainly I am the Giver of death to you and the Raiser of you towards Me and the Protector to you against those who rejected (you), and the Maintainer of those who have followed you above and higher to those who have rejected (you) — till the Day of Resurrection. Afterwards, towards Me is your returning place, then I will pronounce judgement between you people in whatever you used to create differences of opinion.
Talal A. Itani (new translation) God said, 'O Jesus, I am terminating your life, and raising you to Me, and clearing you of those who disbelieve. And I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return; then I will judge between you regarding what you were disputing.
Ali Bakhtiari Nejad (Remember) when God said: Jesus, I make you die, and bring you up to Me, and cleanse you from those who disbelieved, and make those who follow you above those who disbelieved until the resurrection day. Then, your return is to Me, and I judge between you in what you disputed about it.
[The Monotheist Group] (2013 Edition)
Mohammad Shafi When Allah said: "O Jesus! I am indeed going to make you die and raise you up to Me. And I will cleanse you of what those who suppress the Truth say about you. And I will make those who follow you surpass those who suppress the Truth, towards the Day of Resurrection.And then to Me shall be the return of you all. Then I shall judge between you on matters which you have been disputing."
Maulana Muhammad Ali
Muhammad Ahmed - Samira When God said: "You Jesus I am, I am making you die and raising you to Me and purifying you from those who disbelieved, and making those who followed you above those who disbelieved to the Resurrection Day, then to Me (is) your return, so I judge/rule between you in what, you were in it differing .
continued to the next post #823.
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Continued from post #822
Sher Ali
Remember the time when ALLAH said' `O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will raise thee to Myself, and will clear thee of the charges of those who disbelieve, and will exalt those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to ME shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.
Rashad Khalifa
Thus, GOD said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.
Amatul Rahman Omar
(Recall the time) when Allah said, `O Jesus! I will cause you to die a natural death, and will exalt you to Myself and I will clear you of the unchaste accusations of those who disbelieve. I am going to make your followers prevail over the disbelievers till the Day of Resurrection, then to Me (O people!) shall be your return, and I will judge all your differences.
Edward Henry Palmer
When God said, 'O Jesus! I will make Thee die and take Thee up again to me and will clear thee of those who misbelieve, and will make those who follow thee above those who misbelieve, at the day of judgment, then to me is your return. I will decide between you concerning that wherein ye disagree.
George Sale
When God said, O Jesus, verily I will cause thee to die, and I will take thee up unto me, and I will deliver thee from the unbelievers; and I will place those who follow thee, above the unbelievers, until the day of resurrection: Then unto me shall ye return, and I will judge between you of that concerning which ye disagree.
John Medows Rodwell
Remember when God said, "O Jesus! verily I will cause thee to die, and will take thee up to myself and deliver thee from those who believe not; and I will place those who follow thee above those who believe not, until the day of resurrection. Then, to me is your return, and wherein ye differ will I decide between you.
Ahmed Hulusi And recall when Allah had said, “I’m going to cause you to die (that is, they will not be able to assassinate you through their secret schemes, I will cause you to die when your time comes)... I’m going to raise you to myself (enable you to experience the supremacy of your essence); I’m going to purify you by removing you from among the deniers of the reality (disbelievers) and until Doomsday I’m going to place those who follow you above those who deny the reality. In the end, your return is to Me. I will judge on matters over which you differed between each other.”
http://islamawakened.com/quran/3/55/
Yousuf Ali and some other translators could not understand and translate the verse correctly.
Regards
Sher Ali
Rashad Khalifa
Amatul Rahman Omar
Edward Henry Palmer
George Sale
John Medows Rodwell
Ahmed Hulusi And recall when Allah had said, “I’m going to cause you to die (that is, they will not be able to assassinate you through their secret schemes, I will cause you to die when your time comes)... I’m going to raise you to myself (enable you to experience the supremacy of your essence); I’m going to purify you by removing you from among the deniers of the reality (disbelievers) and until Doomsday I’m going to place those who follow you above those who deny the reality. In the end, your return is to Me. I will judge on matters over which you differed between each other.”
http://islamawakened.com/quran/3/55/
Yousuf Ali and some other translators could not understand and translate the verse correctly.
Regards
Muffled
Jesus in me
You are simply wrong.
I give the text of the Quran verse 3:55 in Arabic, its transliteration in Roman alphabetic and the correct translations below:
Arabicإِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَىٰ إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَيَّ وَمُطَهِّرُكَ مِنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَجَاعِلُ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوكَ فَوْقَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ ثُمَّ إِلَيَّ مَرْجِعُكُمْ فَأَحْكُمُ بَيْنَكُمْ فِيمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ
TransliterationIth qala Allahu ya AAeesa innee mutawaffeeka warafiAAuka ilayya wamutahhiruka mina allatheena kafaroo wajaAAilu allatheena ittabaAAooka fawqa allatheena kafaroo ila yawmi alqiyamati thumma ilayya marjiAAukum faahkumu baynakum feema kuntum feehi takhtalifoona
Yousulf Ali and some or many other translators have translated the verse incorrectly. Quranic text in original Arabic is only Word of G-d, not the translations.
Wahiduddin KhanGod said, O Jesus, I shall cause you to die and will raise you up to Me and shall clear you [of the calumnies] of the disbelievers, and shall place those who follow you above those who deny the truth, until the Day of Judgement; then to Me shall all return and I will judge between you regarding your disputes.
Safi Kaskas God said, "Jesus, I will cause you to die and raise you up to me, and purify you from those who denied the truth, and I will exalt your followers over those who deny you until the Resurrection Day. Then you all will return to me, and I will judge between you in matters about which you disagree.
[Al-Muntakhab]There and then said Allah to ‘Isa, "O ‘Isa, I am ordaining that you depart from this life. I am taking you up to My August presence and ridding you of the troublesome blasphemers among your contemporaries and out of harm's way. I am raising those who recognized your mission and accepted your apostleship to higher ranks and exalting them in dignity and power above those who denied you till the Day of Resurrection when to Me shall all of you return. Then I will judge between you on the strained points of dispute upon which the whole unreasoning turned".
[The Monotheist Group] (2011 Edition)God said: "O Jesus, I will let you die, and raise you to Me, and cleanse you of those who have rejected, and make those who have followed you above those who rejected until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me is your return so I will judge between all of you in what it was that you disputed."
Abdul Majid DaryabadiRecall what time Allah said: O 'Isa! verily I shall make thee die, and am lifting thee to myself and am purifying thee from those who disbelieve, and shall place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection; thereafter unto Me shall be the return of you all, then I shall judge between you of that wherein ye were wont to differ.
Shabbir Ahmed"O Jesus! I will cause you to die of natural causes and I will exalt you in honor in My Court and I will clear you of the slander of the disbelievers. I will cause those who truly follow you to dominate the rejecters until the Day of Resurrection. Eventually, all of you will return to Me, then I will judge among you about what you used to differ."
Dr. Mohammad Tahir-ul-QadriWhen Allah said: ‘O ‘Isa (Jesus), I will surely bring your term of life to completion; and I am about to lift you towards Myself (in the heavens), and deliver you from the disbelievers, and exalt your followers above (these) disbelievers till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me you all have to return. So I shall judge between you in the matters about which you used to dispute.’
Dr. Kamal Omar Behold! Allah said: “O Iesa! Certainly I am the Giver of death to you and the Raiser of you towards Me and the Protector to you against those who rejected (you), and the Maintainer of those who have followed you above and higher to those who have rejected (you) — till the Day of Resurrection. Afterwards, towards Me is your returning place, then I will pronounce judgement between you people in whatever you used to create differences of opinion.
Talal A. Itani (new translation) God said, 'O Jesus, I am terminating your life, and raising you to Me, and clearing you of those who disbelieve. And I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return; then I will judge between you regarding what you were disputing.
Ali Bakhtiari Nejad (Remember) when God said: Jesus, I make you die, and bring you up to Me, and cleanse you from those who disbelieved, and make those who follow you above those who disbelieved until the resurrection day. Then, your return is to Me, and I judge between you in what you disputed about it.
[The Monotheist Group] (2013 Edition)For God said: "O Jesus, I will terminate your life, and raise you to Me, and cleanse you of those who have rejected, and make those who have followed you above those who have rejected until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, all of you,so I will judge between you in what it was that you disputed."
Mohammad Shafi When Allah said: "O Jesus! I am indeed going to make you die and raise you up to Me. And I will cleanse you of what those who suppress the Truth say about you. And I will make those who follow you surpass those who suppress the Truth, towards the Day of Resurrection.And then to Me shall be the return of you all. Then I shall judge between you on matters which you have been disputing."
Maulana Muhammad AliWhen Allah said: O Jesus, I will cause thee to die and exalt thee in My presence and clear thee of those who disbelieve and make those who follow thee above those who disbelieve to the day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, so I shall decide between you concerning that wherein you differ.
Muhammad Ahmed - Samira When God said: "You Jesus I am, I am making you die and raising you to Me and purifying you from those who disbelieved, and making those who followed you above those who disbelieved to the Resurrection Day, then to Me (is) your return, so I judge/rule between you in what, you were in it differing .
continued to the next post #823.
Actually I believe "God taking a person" is a euphemistic way of saying that God will take the person 's life but I agree it does not convey the concept of the death of Jesus as well as the other translations. However a natural death it is not and that translation is the only one that says so.So the question is why would one construe the word "natural" from the text? Obvious to me is the fact that the translator did not know the Bible and stuck his own opinion into the translation causing it to be in error. I don't believe the Qu'ran is in error since the death of Jesus is a Biblical fact and it fits the context but the idea of a natural death as a translation is erroneous.
I believe "clear of calumnies" works but I like "indemnify of accusations."
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
There were two of them, one mentioned in post #822 and the other in #823, I wanted to post in one post but because of large data it had to be divided in two posts, I give them together below:
Shabbir Ahmed
Sher Ali
OOOOOOO
Sorry, there are no facts that are Biblical, it is a mythical scripture.
Regards
codex
New Member
Why shd one quote the Koran regarding Jesus' death or crucifixion. Not valid.
The Gospels have many loopholes. But there is always a chance that Jesus did die on the cross. When Muslims quote the bible, do you believe in the NT? If you dont believe in it, why do you quote it to prove Jesus did not die on the cross? You will quote only if you value it as historical fact right?
Jesus.
The Gospels have many loopholes. But there is always a chance that Jesus did die on the cross. When Muslims quote the bible, do you believe in the NT? If you dont believe in it, why do you quote it to prove Jesus did not die on the cross? You will quote only if you value it as historical fact right?
Jesus.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I quote Quran for the reasonable arguments it provides in the verses and the context verses on every issue. We quote from Gospels as Christians belief it
I intend to give clues given in the NT Gospels and I gave about 13 arguments, may be I give about 60 or more such clues or as one says "loopholes" in it. Jesus never died on the Cross, he could not die on it being a truthful prophet/messenger of G-d like Jonah, as he himself said. As per Torah death on Cross is a cursed death and sign of a false prophet.
I will prove my point of view both from the Gospels , about 60 or more such clues, and from the Quran about 30 verses that Jesus did not die on the Cross insha'Allah / "God willing".
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Jesus did not die on the Cross
From Bible: [Summary-1]
Jesus did not want to die on the Cross and he never showed any such intention; so why should Jesus die and for what?
We are still discussing the above arguments, therefore, while writing a post please quote which argument you are commenting on for clarity of the viewers please.
Regards
From Bible: [Summary-1]
- Jesus did not fulfil Sign of Jonah, if we take the Christian stance. Please read the argument from post #109
- Jesus' prayers in the Garden were not heard, if we take the Christian stance . Please read the argument from post #153.
- Jesus' words right on the Cross from post #188 .
- Pilate delays in judgement, Jesus was on the Cross for few hours only. #211
- Jesus prayers were heard , confirmation from Bible. #246
- Who wanted Jesus to be crucified?The Jews.#261
- And the selfish Christians Clergy for con-donation of their hefty sins. #288
- Crucifixion was demanded by the Jews, not by the Christians. #301
- Why crucifixion? Jews wanted to prove Jesus an imposter and a fabricator. #315
- The confusion of NT-Gospels/Christian mythology as to the time, date, year of Crucifixion of Jesus. #462
- Bones of Jesus were not broken. #515
- When the centurion pierced a spear into the side of Jesus, blood and water came out.#594
- Pilate's wife saw a dream about Jesus the night before Crucifixion.#707
- Pilate was convinced that Jesus was innocent. #748
- Pilate did not believe that Jesus had died. #809
Jesus did not want to die on the Cross and he never showed any such intention; so why should Jesus die and for what?
We are still discussing the above arguments, therefore, while writing a post please quote which argument you are commenting on for clarity of the viewers please.
Regards
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Jesus did not die on the Cross
From Quran: [Summary-2]
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah and Imam-Mahdi quoted 30 verses of Quran in this connection.#797
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad received Word of Revelation from G-d that Jesus did not die on the Cross but died a natural death.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad presented some thirty (30) verses of Quran that prove his stand truthful.
For two thousand years it remained a secret , if anybody believed it believed it for faith not with clear reasons, it unfolded by the Word of Revelation (that Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism people don't believe one could have) to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
Nobody could prove him wrong.
Regards
From Quran: [Summary-2]
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah and Imam-Mahdi quoted 30 verses of Quran in this connection.#797
- Jesus died a natural death ( مُتَوَفِّيكَ)"mutawaffeeka".[3:56].#798
- Jesus was exalted to G-d ( بَلْ رَفَعَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَيْهِ) "rafaʿahu" after Jesus died a natural death :[4:159].#798
- فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنْتَ أَنْتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ“but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher over them". [5:118].#804
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad received Word of Revelation from G-d that Jesus did not die on the Cross but died a natural death.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad presented some thirty (30) verses of Quran that prove his stand truthful.
For two thousand years it remained a secret , if anybody believed it believed it for faith not with clear reasons, it unfolded by the Word of Revelation (that Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism people don't believe one could have) to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
Nobody could prove him wrong.
Regards
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Muffled
Jesus in me
There were two of them, one mentioned in post #822 and the other in #823, I wanted to post in one post but because of large data it had to be divided in two posts, I give them together below:
Shabbir Ahmed"O Jesus! I will cause you to die of natural causes and I will exalt you in honor in My Court and I will clear you of the slander of the disbelievers. I will cause those who truly follow you to dominate the rejecters until the Day of Resurrection. Eventually, all of you will return to Me, then I will judge among you about what you used to differ."
Sher AliRemember the time when ALLAH said' `O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will raise thee to Myself, and will clear thee of the charges of those who disbelieve, and will exalt those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to ME shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.
OOOOOOO
Sorry, there are no facts that are Biblical, it is a mythical scripture.
Regards
I believe it wouldn't matter because any translation contrary to the facts of the Bible is spurious.
I believe that has about as much evidential base as the idea that the Qu'ran was plagiarized from the Bible and that Allah is a moon goddess.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I'm more curious why any non-Muslim would give a flying fooey about what Islam thinks about Jesus Christ. It's not like Muslim "scholars" are taken terribly seriously - about ... well, anything...
firedragon
Veteran Member
This, you have proof to? Or are you gonna point to some website?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Flying Fooey. You have definitely gulped down a juicy ending right. Admit it. Loool. Simply luv it.
Made me chuckle.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I have God in me and that should be proof enough since He says the Bible is more reliable than the Qu'ran..
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that is correct. The scribes did not write anything about it as far as I know but you would have to ask a Jewish person about that and considering the Sanhedrin lied about the resurrection of Jesus one would expect lies of commission or omission from the scribes.
However I believe the Bible states that John and Mary were eyewitnesses. John wrote his own book and Mary was most likely interviewed by Luke. Matthew and Mark would have second hand information.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Mary wrote nothing not she dictate anything . It is all hollow conjecture, any yet carving out of it the Christian-God is meaningless. John never claimed that he was there, Matthew, Mark did not mention it.
Regards
firedragon
Veteran Member
The Quran says the bible is more reliable? Show me.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Quran does never say that Bible was/is more reliable than Quran.
I quote from Quran just to prove the above point:
[2:76]Do you expect that they will believe you when a party of them hear the word of Allah, then pervert it after they have understood it, and they knowthe consequences thereof?
[2:77]And when they meet those who believe, they say: ‘We believe,’ and when they meet one another in private, they say: ‘Do you inform them of what Allah has unfolded to you, that they may thereby argue with you before your Lord? Will you not then understand?’
[2:78]Do they not know that Allah knows what they conceal and what they disclose?
[2:79]And some of them are illiterate; they know not the Book buttheir ownfalse notions, and theydo nothingbut conjecture.
[2:80]Woe, therefore, to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: ‘This is from Allah,’ that they may take for it a paltry price. Woe, then, to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they earn.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=75
[2:77]And when they meet those who believe, they say: ‘We believe,’ and when they meet one another in private, they say: ‘Do you inform them of what Allah has unfolded to you, that they may thereby argue with you before your Lord? Will you not then understand?’
[2:78]Do they not know that Allah knows what they conceal and what they disclose?
[2:79]And some of them are illiterate; they know not the Book buttheir ownfalse notions, and theydo nothingbut conjecture.
[2:80]Woe, therefore, to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: ‘This is from Allah,’ that they may take for it a paltry price. Woe, then, to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they earn.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=75
Regards
firedragon
Veteran Member
Quran doesnt even mention the bible.