Jesus Failed Right?

[user4578]

Upon commissioning His disciples

So he commissioned them now, and yet he needed more apparently otherwise he failed, which is it? Then your whole made up story that he only came for Jews, obviously you didn't read John ch. 17, the story of the syro-pheonician woman, the Greeks that visited him, the centurion, the man of the gadarenes, the parables, John 3:16. Unfortunately you're just very confused. Also wasn't it Jesus who told Paul's friend that he would go preach to the Gentiles, I guess it's just kind of funny reading your post.

 

[Nakosis]

So he commissioned them now, and yet he needed more apparently otherwise he failed, which is it? Then your whole made up story that he only came for Jews, obviously you didn't read John ch. 17, the story of the syro-pheonician woman, the Greeks that visited him, the centurion, the man of the gadarenes, the parables, John 3:16. Unfortunately you're just very confused. Also wasn't it Jesus who told Paul's friend that he would go preach to the Gentiles, I guess it's just kind of funny reading your post.

Sure, Jesus had to change his plans after failing with the Jews.

 

[Ajax]

So he commissioned them now, and yet he needed more apparently otherwise he failed, which is it? Then your whole made up story that he only came for Jews, obviously you didn't read John ch. 17, the story of the syro-pheonician woman, the Greeks that visited him, the centurion, the man of the gadarenes, the parables, John 3:16. Unfortunately you're just very confused. Also wasn't it Jesus who told Paul's friend that he would go preach to the Gentiles, I guess it's just kind of funny reading your post.

Another one in the list of contradictions... The fact that Jesus cured non Jews, or Greeks visited him, is irrelevant to the fact that Jesus came for the Jews as he said.
Additionally Mathew 10:5-6 states that Jesus instructed his disciples saying "These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" thus reinforcing his claim that he came for the Jews only.

So can you answer please, did Jesus lie when he told to the woman "He (Jesus) answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"? Or he changed his mind later?

 

[Ajax]

Sure, Jesus had to change his plans after failing with the Jews.

Unfortunately for those who believe that Jesus is God, God can never change his mind.

 

[Nakosis]

Unfortunately for those who believe that Jesus is God, God can never change his mind.

Jesus never seemed to claim to be God. Perhaps only the authority to speak for God which may have been what upset the "Jews".

 

[soulsurvivor]

Strange...I thought it was the same God, both in OT and NT..

OT: 1 Samuel 15:3 "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***."
NT: Matthew 5:39-40 "But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well."
Sounds the same to you?

 

[Ajax]

Jesus never seemed to claim to be God. Perhaps only the authority to speak for God which may have been what upset the "Jews".

I agree.

 

[Ajax]

OT: 1 Samuel 15:3 "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***."
NT: Matthew 5:39-40 "But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well."
Sounds the same to you?

No, so what do you suggest? That the God of OT is a different God?
The NT authors consistently claim that the God revealed in the OT is the same God.

 

[soulsurvivor]

No, so what do you suggest? That the God of OT is a different God?
The NT authors consistently claim that the God revealed in the OT is the same God.

The authors of the OT from their well-documented violent, cruel descriptions (in multiple books/verses) definitely think their God is different from the forgiving God of the NT.
The NT authors would be too worried about repercussions to say their is God different, so the only thing they do is just describe a loving, forgiving, kind God and let the reader interpret how the two are almost diametrically opposite.

 

[Ajax]

The authors of the OT from their well-documented violent, cruel descriptions (in multiple books/verses) definitely think their God is different from the forgiving God of the NT.
The NT authors would be too worried about repercussions to say their is God different, so the only thing they do is just describe a loving, forgiving, kind God and let the reader interpret how the two are almost diametrically opposite.

Ok fine, it's a big contradiction, but what do you suggest? That the God of OT is a different God, there is no God, or all the authors (both of OT and NT) had no idea of what they wrote?

 

[soulsurvivor]

Ok fine, it's a big contradiction, but what do you suggest? That the God of OT is a different God, there is no God, or all the authors (both of OT and NT) had no idea of what they wrote?

As I said, it is left to the reader to interpret why there is such a difference and which is the true view of God.

If you prefer to think of God as the cruel, violent, jealous God of the OT that is entirely up to you.

 

[Ajax]

As I said, it is left to the reader to interpret why there is such a difference and which is the true view of God.

If you prefer to think of God as the cruel, violent, jealous God of the OT that is entirely up to you.

All denominations, as far as I know, support the view of the same God in both Testaments, despite the differences, which is absurd especially when they teach that God can not change because he knows the future and his instructions should be timeless.

 

[user4578]

Sure, Jesus had to change his plans after failing with the Jews.

I guess you could also use that excuse for Adam, Noah, Cain, post-Joshua judges, doing this by memory here, Saul, David, Solomon, Rehoboam, Asa, Jehu, Azariah, Jehoikim, Jehoiachin, basically all of them opportunities for you to play the blame game. The other thing is the statement is false if there were at least one case where it weren't true, but generally, the 'failure' is not to be attributed to God, if that wasn't already obvious.

 

[user4578]

Another one in the list of contradictions... The fact that Jesus cured non Jews, or Greeks visited him, is irrelevant to the fact that Jesus came for the Jews as he said.
Additionally Mathew 10:5-6 states that Jesus instructed his disciples saying "These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" thus reinforcing his claim that he came for the Jews only.

So can you answer please, did Jesus lie when he told to the woman "He (Jesus) answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"? Or he changed his mind later?

It's what he said about these people, that proves his audience, maybe not at the first, and maybe not directly to. So also maybe you and your friend can explain why you don't quote the rest of those passages, only the quote that supports the op's assertion.

 

[soulsurvivor]

All denominations, as far as I know, support the view of the same God in both Testaments, despite the differences, which is absurd especially when they teach that God can not change because he knows the future and his instructions should be timeless.

They are just in denial of the stark difference between the two. When Christ finally returns, these denominations you speak of, should ask him for an explanation. I personally have already made my choice - I totally reject a cruel, jealous, angry God.

 

[Ajax]

It's what he said about these people, that proves his audience, maybe not at the first, and maybe not directly to. So also maybe you and your friend can explain why you don't quote the rest of those passages, only the quote that supports the op's assertion.

I don't understand what you mean. I can quote you the whole paragraph of the Canaanite Woman’s Faith and there is nothing else mentioned there for you to suggest there is more to it. The same for Matthew 10:5-6.
Can you please explain?

As far as I can see, the fact is that Jesus did say to the Canaanite woman “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." This is undisputed.
My question therefore is, did he lie to her, or did he change his mind later? That's all I want to know.

 

[Ajax]

They are just in denial of the stark difference between the two

Agree.

 

[InChrist]

Perhaps you might consider the following ─

Paul:

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.​

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2 Philippians 8:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

Mark:

Mark 9:36 And he took a child, and put him in the midst of them; and taking him in his arms, he said to them, 37 “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.​

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Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the first of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [...]​

32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;​

Matthew

Matthew 20:23 He said to them, “You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”​

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Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”​

Luke

Luke 18:18 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”​

John

John 5: 19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”​

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John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”​

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John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me ...​

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John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.​

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John 10​

25 Jesus answered them, “... 29 My Father ... is greater than all”.​

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John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, `Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves. 12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. 13 Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; 14 if you ask anything in my name, I will do it. 15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever,​

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John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”​

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John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”​

And also

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,​

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1 John 4:12 No man has ever seen God.​

I appreciate all those scriptures. None of them repudiate the deity of Jesus Christ. I’m not going to go through all of them to explain why, if you want to start with one or two…fine.

 

[blü 2]

I appreciate all those scriptures. None of them repudiate the deity of Jesus Christ. I’m not going to go through all of them to explain why, if you want to start with one or two…fine.

First, each of those quotes is Jesus' denial that he's God.

Second, nowhere in the NT does Jesus say "I am God". Again and again he insists he's simply God's envoy.

You may be familiar with the history of the early church from, say, the start of the second century on. In that case you'll have some insight into the politics of the time, urging that Christianity's central figure should be elevated to God status; and how this results in the Trinity doctrine by the fourth century. (The Trinity doctrine is not just intellectually a nonsense, but officially so, though phrased as "a mystery in the strict sense" in that "it can neither be known by unaided human reason nor cogently demonstrated by reason after it has been revealed".)

You sound like your mind's made up, regardless of what the bible actually says. Is that fair comment?

 

[Nakosis]

I guess you could also use that excuse for Adam, Noah, Cain, post-Joshua judges, doing this by memory here, Saul, David, Solomon, Rehoboam, Asa, Jehu, Azariah, Jehoikim, Jehoiachin,

Certainly feel free to start a thread on any of them.

basically all of them opportunities for you to play the blame game.

I see it more as an opportunity to discuss/learn about the Bible and Jesus beyond mere faith and devotion.

The other thing is the statement is false if there were at least one case where it weren't true, but generally, the 'failure' is not to be attributed to God, if that wasn't already obvious.

IDK anything about God or God's plan. Just Jesus and the Bible being discussed.