Jesus' Failed Second Coming Prophecy and What this Means for Christianity

[Rational Agnostic]

That's the point. 2000 years later, there are billions of Christians around the world who still earnestly believe that it will occur.

The reason for that is the historicity of the Resurrection is unimpeachable. If those Old Time Jews could have produced a body, there would be no Christianity.

I read through your note, but I didn't find anything to dissuade me from my other end time studies. Jesus wasn't wrong. The actual timing for His second visitation is found in Daniel and Revelation, within the stated prophetic time periods. This generation is now. We are in the scope of that timing now.

I'm afraid that your declaration of failure is simply premature.

Peaceful Sabbath.

The observation that the prophecies failed would only be premature if some of the disciples who were standing there and listening to Jesus at the time were still alive. In that case we would have to admit that the prophecy could still be fulfilled but the fact that this is not the case proves that the prophecy is false. I have heard that some Mormons believe that John is actually still alive and more than 2000 years old to try to get around this prophecy, but this is an absurd claim that most Christians don't take seriously. I think the context of Matthew 10 demonstrates that the second coming was expected fo occur very soon (likely within a decade or two) of when it was predicted, and at the end of the first century at the absolute latest. As far as the resurrection is concerned, I don't think the evidence that Jesus died on a cross is that strong to begin with, but even if we grant that as being true, it's not reasonable to assume that there was a Resurrection just because the body was missing. There are many more reasonable and natural explanations for that, and the fact that Jesus' disciples don't even recognize the supposedly resurrected Jesus according to the bible is pretty strong evidence that the guy they were talking to was not actually Jesus, but later on they convinced themselves it was since they wanted to believe that it was.

 

[Jimmy]

The second coming refers to a new world after Armageddon. We’re actually in the second coming now. It’s more like an infinite coming

 

[Colt]

The observation that the prophecies failed would only be premature if some of the disciples who were standing there and listening to Jesus at the time were still alive. In that case we would have to admit that the prophecy could still be fulfilled but the fact that this is not the case proves that the prophecy is false. I have heard that some Mormons believe that John is actually still alive and more than 2000 years old to try to get around this prophecy, but this is an absurd claim that most Christians don't take seriously. I think the context of Matthew 10 demonstrates that the second coming was expected fo occur very soon (likely within a decade or two) of when it was predicted, and at the end of the first century at the absolute latest. As far as the resurrection is concerned, I don't think the evidence that Jesus died on a cross is that strong to begin with, but even if we grant that as being true, it's not reasonable to assume that there was a Resurrection just because the body was missing. There are many more reasonable and natural explanations for that, and the fact that Jesus' disciples don't even recognize the supposedly resurrected Jesus according to the bible is pretty strong evidence that the guy they were talking to was not actually Jesus, but later on they convinced themselves it was since they wanted to believe that it was.

The record that we have is a comingling of 2 different subjects, one the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD by Titus and two the future literal return of Jesus. Simply put the gospel authors and editors didn't always accurately preserve what Jesus said and did.

Urantia Book revelation 1955

THE MASTER’S SECOND COMING​

176:2.1 On several occasions Jesus had made statements which led his hearers to infer that, while he intended presently to leave this world, he would most certainly return to consummate the work of the heavenly kingdom. As the conviction grew on his followers that he was going to leave them, and after he had departed from this world, it was only natural for all believers to lay fast hold upon these promises to return. The doctrine of the second coming of Christ thus became early incorporated into the teachings of the Christians, and almost every subsequent generation of disciples has devoutly believed this truth and has confidently looked forward to his sometime coming.

176:2.2 If they were to part with their Master and Teacher, how much more did these first disciples and the apostles grasp at this promise to return, and they lost no time in associating the predicted destruction of Jerusalem with this promised second coming. And they continued thus to interpret his words notwithstanding that, throughout this evening of instruction on Mount Olivet, the Master took particular pains to prevent just such a mistake.

176:2.3 In further answer to Peter’s question, Jesus said: “Why do you still look for the Son of Man to sit upon the throne of David and expect that the material dreams of the Jews will be fulfilled? Have I not told you all these years that my kingdom is not of this world? The things which you now look down upon are coming to an end, but this will be a new beginning out of which the gospel of the kingdom will go to all the world and this salvation will spread to all peoples. And when the kingdom shall have come to its full fruition, be assured that the Father in heaven will not fail to visit you with an enlarged revelation of truth and an enhanced demonstration of righteousness, even as he has already bestowed upon this world him who became the prince of darkness, and then Adam, who was followed by Melchizedek, and in these days, the Son of Man. And so will my Father continue to manifest his mercy and show forth his love, even to this dark and evil world. So also will I, after my Father has invested me with all power and authority, continue to follow your fortunes and to guide in the affairs of the kingdom by the presence of my spirit, who shall shortly be poured out upon all flesh. Even though I shall thus be present with you in spirit, I also promise that I will sometime return to this world, where I have lived this life in the flesh and achieved the experience of simultaneously revealing God to man and leading man to God. Very soon must I leave you and take up the work the Father has intrusted to my hands, but be of good courage, for I will sometime return. In the meantime, my Spirit of the Truth of a universe shall comfort and guide you.

176:2.4 “You behold me now in weakness and in the flesh, but when I return, it shall be with power and in the spirit. The eye of flesh beholds the Son of Man in the flesh, but only the eye of the spirit will behold the Son of Man glorified by the Father and appearing on earth in his own name.

176:2.5 “But the times of the reappearing of the Son of Man are known only in the councils of Paradise; not even the angels of heaven know when this will occur. However, you should understand that, when this gospel of the kingdom shall have been proclaimed to all the world for the salvation of all peoples, and when the fullness of the age has come to pass, the Father will send you another dispensational bestowal, or else the Son of Man will return to adjudge the age.

176:2.6 “And now concerning the travail of Jerusalem, about which I have spoken to you, even this generation will not pass away until my words are fulfilled; but concerning the times of the coming again of the Son of Man, no one in heaven or on earth may presume to speak. But you should be wise regarding the ripening of an age; you should be alert to discern the signs of the times. You know when the fig tree shows its tender branches and puts forth its leaves that summer is near. Likewise, when the world has passed through the long winter of material-mindedness and you discern the coming of the spiritual springtime of a new dispensation, should you know that the summertime of a new visitation draws near.

176:2.7 “But what is the significance of this teaching having to do with the coming of the Sons of God? Do you not perceive that, when each of you is called to lay down his life struggle and pass through the portal of death, you stand in the immediate presence of judgment, and that you are face to face with the facts of a new dispensation of service in the eternal plan of the infinite Father? What the whole world must face as a literal fact at the end of an age, you, as individuals, must each most certainly face as a personal experience when you reach the end of your natural life and thereby pass on to be confronted with the conditions and demands inherent in the next revelation of the eternal progression of the Father’s kingdom.”

176:2.8 Of all the discourses which the Master gave his apostles, none ever became so confused in their minds as this one, given this Tuesday evening on the Mount of Olives, regarding the twofold subject of the destruction of Jerusalem and his own second coming. There was, therefore, little agreement between the subsequent written accounts based on the memories of what the Master said on this extraordinary occasion. Consequently, when the records were left blank concerning much that was said that Tuesday evening, there grew up many traditions; and very early in the second century a Jewish apocalyptic about the Messiah written by one Selta, who was attached to the court of the Emperor Caligula, was bodily copied into the Matthew Gospel and subsequently added (in part) to the Mark and Luke records. It was in these writings of Selta that the parable of the ten virgins appeared. No part of the gospel record ever suffered such confusing misconstruction as this evening’s teaching. But the Apostle John never became thus confused.

176:2.9 As these thirteen men resumed their journey toward the camp, they were speechless and under great emotional tension. Judas had finally confirmed his decision to abandon his associates. It was a late hour when David Zebedee, John Mark, and a number of the leading disciples welcomed Jesus and the twelve to the new camp, but the apostles did not want to sleep; they wanted to know more about the destruction of Jerusalem, the Master’s departure, and the end of the world.

 

[Dave Watchman]

The observation that the prophecies failed would only be premature if some of the disciples who were standing there and listening to Jesus at the time were still alive.

The prophecies can't be deemed failed by our reading of the Gospels. It's as simple as that. The empirical was put in another place. What Isaac Newton said to look for in his Daniel 9 commentary, appears to be here and happening now.

Even the first century disciples at times were perplexed at whether Christ was speaking to them, or to another group of people.

Luke 12:

"You also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”​

​

41Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?” 42And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? 43Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 45But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.​

Jesus had already told His People to flee when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies. So His People knew the apocalyptic predictions were talking about the second coming, and not the destruction of Jerusalem. But even then some had their doubts. Paul had to reassure them in Thessalonians re "that Day".

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.​

So we have "rebellion first, then "the man of lawlessness is revealed, and then Christ is revealed, and then the Lord Jesus will kill the man of sin with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. But we still can't get the timing of this from the Pauline Epistles.

Some people think it's happening with the next two trips of the Asteroid Apophis in 2029 and 2036. A couple other three guys are counting Jubilee cycles and heptads from creation week and the First Visitation of Messiah and think it's beginning now to 2030. I think it's happening now. I think the last heptad has already began and we are already in that parade of apocalyptic events in the term Christ referred to as the coming of the Son of Man.

I would always default to the earliest date, that way I won't be late.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yet, more than 2000 years later, billions of Christians around the world still earnestly believe that it will occur in the future, and are not aware that this prophecy already failed. The truth is, there is no reason to expect that this second coming will ever happen, and is anything more than a fairy tale. If Jesus was wrong about something as key and central to Christianity as this, there is no reason to trust that Jesus was right about anything else he said, and no reason to believe that the Christian god exists outside the imaginations of those who believe in him.

The truth is, there is no reason to expect that the second coming of Jesus will ever happen, and is anything more than a fairy tale, since not once in the entire New Testament did Jesus ever promise to return to Earth. Rather, Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the 'return of Christ' has to be another Person.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

The record that we have is a comingling of 2 different subjects, one the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD by Titus and two the future literal return of Jesus. Simply put the gospel authors and editors didn't always accurately preserve what Jesus said and did.

Urantia Book revelation 1955

THE MASTER’S SECOND COMING​

176:2.1 On several occasions Jesus had made statements which led his hearers to infer that, while he intended presently to leave this world, he would most certainly return to consummate the work of the heavenly kingdom. As the conviction grew on his followers that he was going to leave them, and after he had departed from this world, it was only natural for all believers to lay fast hold upon these promises to return. The doctrine of the second coming of Christ thus became early incorporated into the teachings of the Christians, and almost every subsequent generation of disciples has devoutly believed this truth and has confidently looked forward to his sometime coming.

176:2.2 If they were to part with their Master and Teacher, how much more did these first disciples and the apostles grasp at this promise to return, and they lost no time in associating the predicted destruction of Jerusalem with this promised second coming. And they continued thus to interpret his words notwithstanding that, throughout this evening of instruction on Mount Olivet, the Master took particular pains to prevent just such a mistake.

176:2.3 In further answer to Peter’s question, Jesus said: “Why do you still look for the Son of Man to sit upon the throne of David and expect that the material dreams of the Jews will be fulfilled? Have I not told you all these years that my kingdom is not of this world? The things which you now look down upon are coming to an end, but this will be a new beginning out of which the gospel of the kingdom will go to all the world and this salvation will spread to all peoples. And when the kingdom shall have come to its full fruition, be assured that the Father in heaven will not fail to visit you with an enlarged revelation of truth and an enhanced demonstration of righteousness, even as he has already bestowed upon this world him who became the prince of darkness, and then Adam, who was followed by Melchizedek, and in these days, the Son of Man. And so will my Father continue to manifest his mercy and show forth his love, even to this dark and evil world. So also will I, after my Father has invested me with all power and authority, continue to follow your fortunes and to guide in the affairs of the kingdom by the presence of my spirit, who shall shortly be poured out upon all flesh. Even though I shall thus be present with you in spirit, I also promise that I will sometime return to this world, where I have lived this life in the flesh and achieved the experience of simultaneously revealing God to man and leading man to God. Very soon must I leave you and take up the work the Father has intrusted to my hands, but be of good courage, for I will sometime return. In the meantime, my Spirit of the Truth of a universe shall comfort and guide you.

176:2.4 “You behold me now in weakness and in the flesh, but when I return, it shall be with power and in the spirit. The eye of flesh beholds the Son of Man in the flesh, but only the eye of the spirit will behold the Son of Man glorified by the Father and appearing on earth in his own name.

176:2.5 “But the times of the reappearing of the Son of Man are known only in the councils of Paradise; not even the angels of heaven know when this will occur. However, you should understand that, when this gospel of the kingdom shall have been proclaimed to all the world for the salvation of all peoples, and when the fullness of the age has come to pass, the Father will send you another dispensational bestowal, or else the Son of Man will return to adjudge the age.

176:2.6 “And now concerning the travail of Jerusalem, about which I have spoken to you, even this generation will not pass away until my words are fulfilled; but concerning the times of the coming again of the Son of Man, no one in heaven or on earth may presume to speak. But you should be wise regarding the ripening of an age; you should be alert to discern the signs of the times. You know when the fig tree shows its tender branches and puts forth its leaves that summer is near. Likewise, when the world has passed through the long winter of material-mindedness and you discern the coming of the spiritual springtime of a new dispensation, should you know that the summertime of a new visitation draws near.

176:2.7 “But what is the significance of this teaching having to do with the coming of the Sons of God? Do you not perceive that, when each of you is called to lay down his life struggle and pass through the portal of death, you stand in the immediate presence of judgment, and that you are face to face with the facts of a new dispensation of service in the eternal plan of the infinite Father? What the whole world must face as a literal fact at the end of an age, you, as individuals, must each most certainly face as a personal experience when you reach the end of your natural life and thereby pass on to be confronted with the conditions and demands inherent in the next revelation of the eternal progression of the Father’s kingdom.”

176:2.8 Of all the discourses which the Master gave his apostles, none ever became so confused in their minds as this one, given this Tuesday evening on the Mount of Olives, regarding the twofold subject of the destruction of Jerusalem and his own second coming. There was, therefore, little agreement between the subsequent written accounts based on the memories of what the Master said on this extraordinary occasion. Consequently, when the records were left blank concerning much that was said that Tuesday evening, there grew up many traditions; and very early in the second century a Jewish apocalyptic about the Messiah written by one Selta, who was attached to the court of the Emperor Caligula, was bodily copied into the Matthew Gospel and subsequently added (in part) to the Mark and Luke records. It was in these writings of Selta that the parable of the ten virgins appeared. No part of the gospel record ever suffered such confusing misconstruction as this evening’s teaching. But the Apostle John never became thus confused.

176:2.9 As these thirteen men resumed their journey toward the camp, they were speechless and under great emotional tension. Judas had finally confirmed his decision to abandon his associates. It was a late hour when David Zebedee, John Mark, and a number of the leading disciples welcomed Jesus and the twelve to the new camp, but the apostles did not want to sleep; they wanted to know more about the destruction of Jerusalem, the Master’s departure, and the end of the world.

Ah, I see. So since it's obvious that the stuff Jesus predicted in the gospels never happened, we should conclude that the gospels just didn't accurately record what Jesus said. A random book that almost no one has heard of that was apparently written in 1955 must be a much more accurate depiction of what Jesus said, right?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

The truth is, there is no reason to expect that the second coming of Jesus will ever happen, and is anything more than a fairy tale, since not once in the entire New Testament did Jesus ever promise to return to Earth. Rather, Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the 'return of Christ' has to be another Person.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

on.

I don't know, who do you think he is? Either way it doesn't matter, because the passages predicted the Apocalypse, stating that the stars would fall to the earth, which clearly didn't happen in the first century A.D. during Jesus' disciples' lifetimes.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

The prophecies can't be deemed failed by our reading of the Gospels. It's as simple as that. The empirical was put in another place. What Isaac Newton said to look for in his Daniel 9 commentary, appears to be here and happening now.

Even the first century disciples at times were perplexed at whether Christ was speaking to them, or to another group of people.

Luke 12:

"You also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”​

​

41Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?” 42And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? 43Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 45But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.​

Jesus had already told His People to flee when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies. So His People knew the apocalyptic predictions were talking about the second coming, and not the destruction of Jerusalem. But even then some had their doubts. Paul had to reassure them in Thessalonians re "that Day".

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.​

So we have "rebellion first, then "the man of lawlessness is revealed, and then Christ is revealed, and then the Lord Jesus will kill the man of sin with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. But we still can't get the timing of this from the Pauline Epistles.

Some people think it's happening with the next two trips of the Asteroid Apophis in 2029 and 2036. A couple other three guys are counting Jubilee cycles and heptads from creation week and the First Visitation of Messiah and think it's beginning now to 2030. I think it's ahppening now. I think the last heptad has already began and we are already in that parade of apocalyptic events in the term Christ refereed to as the coming of the Son of Man.

I would always default to the earliest date, that way I won't be late.

So are you saying that you think Jesus will come back by 2036? Do you want to make a bet on it? I'm guessing not but if you do I'll definitely take you up on it. It's so funny to me how all these guys who predict Jesus will come back at specific times never actually bet money on it because deep down they know it's not going to happen.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

The second coming refers to a new world after Armageddon. We’re actually in the second coming now. It’s more like an infinite coming

So Armageddon already happened then? Is the planet that we are living on now a different planet in a different universe than the planet that Jesus and his disciples' lived on?

 

[Colt]

Ah, I see. So since it's obvious that the stuff Jesus predicted in the gospels never happened, we should conclude that the gospels just didn't accurately record what Jesus said. A random book that almost no one has heard of that was apparently written in 1955 must be a much more accurate depiction of what Jesus said, right?

Today 5 eyewitness of the same event can’t even agree on what they saw or what someone said. I think you are intelligent enough to understand this.

There is a “tell” in the writing that you posted:……”When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”

Jesus wasn’t dictating a book, he wasn’t writing, some other author wrote this long after the fact.

Curious, do you believe that everything recorded in the Bible is a completely, word for word, fact for fact recollection of what happened?

 

[Dave Watchman]

So are you saying that you think Jesus will come back by 2036?

I think sooner. Between anytime now, and 10 years sooner than 2036.

Do you want to make a bet on it? I'm guessing not but if you do I'll definitely take you up on it.

A bet on this would be like a reverse Pascals wager. If I were correct, I would not be in a position to collect. When Christ returns, none of the silver or gold, (monetary wealth), will be of any use.

"And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn for her, since no one buys their cargo anymore, cargo of gold, silver, jewels, pearls, fine linen, purple cloth, silk, scarlet cloth, all kinds of scented wood, all kinds of articles of ivory, all kinds of articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble, cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls.​

It's so funny to me how all these guys who predict Jesus will come back at specific times never actually bet money on it because deep down they know it's not going to happen.

Down deep I can't see now how I can be wrong. The timing Newton speculated about in his Bible commentary, has been fulfilled again in our modern times. There's only one place in the Bible which lays out the timing for the coming of Messiah, and those unique specifications have been met once again. The same timing which meticulously predicted Christ's First Visitation, is in play now once again. These are very unique events, which are not replaceable in time which we can count from. 434 years is a unique count for them to be set out at. This involves commands made by two distinct and separate nations, regarding the same specific city, made 434 years apart. It is impossible for these things to randomly occur at those specific times. These events allow us, like it did the three wise men, to know when to be looking for His star in the east.

I'm excited about it. I'm apprehensive at the same time. It may not be a thing which is fun for everyone, but all of creation groans for it. The greatest event in the history of mankind, the revelation of the Sons of God.

Newton would have loved to see one of our days.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So are you saying that you think Jesus will come back by 2036? Do you want to make a bet on it? I'm guessing not but if you do I'll definitely take you up on it. It's so funny to me how all these guys who predict Jesus will come back at specific times never actually bet money on it because deep down they know it's not going to happen.

I haven't had so much fun with end time predictions since the sheer loonyness of Harold Camping and his Family Radio.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Today 5 eyewitness of the same event can’t even agree on what they saw or what someone said. I think you are intelligent enough to understand this.

There is a “tell” in the writing that you posted:……”When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”

Jesus wasn’t dictating a book, he wasn’t writing, some other author wrote this long after the fact.

Curious, do you believe that everything recorded in the Bible is a completely, word for word, fact for fact recollection of what happened?

No, I definitely don't think everything recorded in the bible is a completely, word for word, exact recollection of what happened. But when it is repeated in the Bible so many times it's quite clear that the end of the world was in fact expected by Jesus' followers, as well as Jesus himself (Jesus predicts it in Matthew 10:23, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32) and the idea is also reinforced by other New Testament authors like Paul who advised readers not to get married since the end times were at hand, and that those who are currently married should neglect their marital responsibilities since Jesus would be returning within their lifetimes' anyway. 1 Corinthians 7:29-31 states: What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

It's very clear when reading the New Testament that Jesus, as well as the earliest Christians, thought that the end of the world was approaching within their lifetimes, and it's also very clear that they were wrong about that.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I think sooner. Between anytime now, and 10 years sooner than 2036.

A bet on this would be like a reverse Pascals wager. If I were correct, I would not be in a position to collect. When Christ returns, none of the silver or gold, (monetary wealth), will be of any use.

"And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn for her, since no one buys their cargo anymore, cargo of gold, silver, jewels, pearls, fine linen, purple cloth, silk, scarlet cloth, all kinds of scented wood, all kinds of articles of ivory, all kinds of articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble, cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls.​

Down deep I can't see now how I can be wrong. The timing Newton speculated about in his Bible commentary, has been fulfilled again in our modern times. There's only one place in the Bible which lays out the timing for the coming of Messiah, and those unique specifications have been met once again. The same timing which meticulously predicted Christ's First Visitation, is in play now once again. These are very unique events, which are not replaceable in time which we can count from. 434 years is a unique count for them to be set out at. This involves commands made by two distinct and separate nations, regarding the same specific city, made 434 years apart. It is impossible for these things to randomly occur at those specific times. These events allow us, like it did the three wise men, to know when to be looking for His star in the east.

I'm excited about it. I'm apprehensive at the same time. It may not be a thing which is fun for everyone, but all of creation groans for it. The greatest event in the history of mankind, the revelation of the Sons of God.

Newton would have loved to see one of our days.

I'm not even going to argue with this craziness because it's so far removed from reality and will be proven wrong yet again (like every other prophecy of Jesus' return) in 10 years. What I'm interested in though is how you get around the fact that Jesus predicted his own return within his disciples' lifetimes and the fact that this did not occur.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's very clear when reading the New Testament that Jesus, as well as the earliest Christians, thought that the end of the world was approaching within their lifetimes, and it's also very clear that they were wrong about that.

It is very clear to you what Jesus thought? Seriously?

Could it not be that the Paul and the authors of the Synoptics were simply expressing the apocalyptic trends of the time, and that you, for whatever reason, somewhat thrive on disparaging Christianity? Just a thought ...

 

[Jimmy]

So Armageddon already happened then? Is the planet that we are living on now a different planet in a different universe than the planet that Jesus and his disciples' lived on?

Every new world begins around 1980. The time of Jesus never really happened

 

[Sand Dancer]

If people focused on people instead of law, like Jesus did, it wouldn't matter if he "ushered people to heaven." If people followed his teachings, things would be better on earth. We would be bringing heaven to earth, like he wanted.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

It is very clear to you what Jesus thought? Seriously?

Could it not be that the Paul and the authors of the Synoptics were simply expressing the apocalyptic trends of the time, and that you, for whatever reason, somewhat thrive on disparaging Christianity? Just a thought ...

Well, I assume that Jesus' thoughts were aligned with what he said, and that he probably did not think differently than what he said. So, yes, I think Jesus thought the world was ending and that he was returning within the lifetimes' of his disciples, and I don't think he thought differently than that. If he thought differently then that would mean he was lying when he said he would return within his disciples' lifetimes. I don't actually think he was lying or trying to deceive them, I think he was just wrong.

And I think Paul was advising people to live as if the universe was about to be destroyed because he actually believed it, since it was expressed in the gospels that this would in fact occur. I also think that the gospel authors believed this because they wrote it.

 

[Dave Watchman]

What I'm interested in though is how you get around the fact that Jesus predicted his own return within his disciples' lifetimes and the fact that this did not occur.

I don't.

He wasn't.

Peter said He can't come back until the time has come to restore all things.

"Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.​

And that restoration probably isn't happening until after the thousand years of Revelation 20 is finished, "Behold, I make all things new", so His next trip is likely another Visitation to take His People to His Father's House with the many rooms. Would He have told us this if it were not true?

We, like the first century disciples, and the early church fathers, are just not completely understanding the things that Jesus was saying in the Gospels, (Let The Reader Understand). We can't get the timing for the second coming from the Gospels, or the Epistles. The first century disciples could not know the details of the timing for the second coming, because the timing for this was embedded within the 18 prophetic time periods spoken of by the Prophet Daniel, and John's writings in Revelation.

And Daniel was sealed until the time of the end when knowledge would be increased.

I wish I could be of more help, but that is about the best way I can think to say it.

I would continue at this time to insist that your call of failure is unqualified, especially as it is based on your understanding of the Olivet Discourse, and is simply premature.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

If people focused on people instead of law, like Jesus did, it wouldn't matter if he "ushered people to heaven." If people followed his teachings, things would be better on earth. We would be bringing heaven to earth, like he wanted.

Maybe, but that's a different topic. I'm more interested in the accuracy of the bible and Jesus' statements than the application of it, since secular moral systems could be developed using the same teachings without making any direct claims on what is true and false.