Jesus - First Born?

[Soapy]

And the name He inherited is His Father's name, the name above all names, and we all will bow our knee to Him and maybe it will be only then that some of us realise we are worshipping Jesus.
Heb 1: 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Phil 2:9Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,…

Brilliant, Yes Brian2, Jesus INHERITED the name above all names AFTER God raised him from the dead and GRANTED him to rule for [only] a thousand years (a day in the eyes of God!!).

The name above all names indicates that Jesus is now IMMORTAL… and will not ever change … Jesus ‘IS’ from now on to eternity:

• ‘I was DEAD, but AM NOW ALIVE FOR ALL ETERNITY’

Thanks Brian2, you unwittingly raise up the best verses in your quest to speak falsely of the truth if the gospels.

 

[Soapy]

Having anything "wrong" is just your opinion because nothing I said was "wrong".

You don’t recognise when you are wrong, that’s all it is.

 

[Soapy]

And your point it?

If you don’t see it then it’s because you don’t want to. It goes against your ideology so you try to make it disappear from your eyesight.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It was never about "God".
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
2 Samuel 24:1, JKV
LORD is a translation of YHWH, but Elohim, not YHWH, is translated as "God'.
The point is that in this context YHWH was angry with Israel and so he made David act against them. By doing this YHWH was acting as the adversary of Israel, and satan means adversary.

Satan as resister
Devil as slanderer
Serpent as deceiver
Dragon as destroyer

Thus Satan is a title and Not Satan's personal name.
1st Chronicles 21:1 is going against what God already wanted. - Please read Numbers 1:47-49 as to what God wanted.
David sinned by counting the people when it was already in God's Law Not to do so at Numbers chapter 1.
So, the pronoun 'he' at 2nd Sam. 24:1 is answered at 1st. Chron. 21:1
Not Satan who sent JOAB to David but God sent JOAB to David - 1st Chron. 21:2-4
Perhaps a Rabbi could express this clearer.

LORD God is YHWH. Elohim is Not the Tetragrammaton.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I would think, don't know for certainty, that his parents celebrated his birthday. We know the angels celebrated and sang praising God at his birth and he couldn't have died without first being born!

Jews did Not celebrate birthdays. That was a non-biblical practice.
Only two birthday parties were mentioned in the Bible and both were non-Jews.
Certainly No birthday cake candles would have been sacrificed for Jesus.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No, only one being caused David to number Israel, and Joab acted on his own volition....................

Wasn't it God's choice to have Joab as being over the host (KJV 2nd Sam. 8:16; 2nd Sam.20:23 ________
Joab was chief - 1st. Chron. 11:6 B
So, Joab was acting in a position approved by God.
The reason why God's anger was Not against Joab because Joab was Not acting out of his own volition.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe John 1 says that the word is God not the word is the son

Psalm 90:2 says God is from everlasting...... meaning No beginning, No starting point for God.
Jn. 1 says per-human heavenly Jesus was " IN " the beginning.
So, only God was ' before ' the beginning. That is why Jesus can refer to Him as Creator - Rev. 4:11

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No, it's not up to the Christians to claim Jesus altered the relationship between the Jewish nation and the Jewish God. That has to come from the Tanakh, and as I keep pointing out, no Jewish citizen would have recognized Jesus as a messiah, simply because he had none of the qualifications of a Jewish messiah.
The Christian God is NOT the Jewish God. The Christian God is triune, for example, thus includes Jesus as God, notwithstanding that all five versions of Jesus in the NT expressly deny that they're God and never claim to be God.....................
So what corrupt religion was WW1 about? WW2? Spell it out for me.

The Jewish Messiah to me is the expected Messiah of Luke 3:15 from the time of Daniel 9:25-26
No, the Christian God is singular.
Jesus truthfully answered as to who he is at John 10:36 B the Son.

I was referring to Bible history ( Not WWI or II )
God used the Babylonian forces for 70 years.
God used the Roman forces in the year 70 against un-faithful Jerusalem.
House cleaning will start with the 'House of God' - 1st Peter 4:17
Adverse judgement will come against those playing false to God and His Christ

 

[Soapy]

Psalm 90:2 says God is from everlasting...... meaning No beginning, No starting point for God.
Jn. 1 says per-human heavenly Jesus was " IN " the beginning.
So, only God was ' before ' the beginning. That is why Jesus can refer to Him as Creator - Rev. 4:11

Yes, God is from Everlasting past to Eternal future…

Jesus is NOW alive to Eternal future. God GRANTED Jesus to sit as ruler over the created world on the ethereal throne of the man, king David.

Almighty God; YHWH, is, was, and always will be, ruler over spiritual Heaven!!

 

[amazing grace]

Jews did Not celebrate birthdays. That was a non-biblical practice.
Only two birthday parties were mentioned in the Bible and both were non-Jews.
Certainly No birthday cake candles would have been sacrificed for Jesus.

OMGosh! I never said anything about "celebrating" birthdays with cake and candles. I simply said what I said in the context of the story of Jesus's birth. A reminder of the reason for the season.

And while they (Mary and Joseph) were there (in Bethlehem for the census) the time came for her to give birth. And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger because there was no place for them in the inn . . . . For unto you is born this day in the city of David, a Savior who is Christ the Lord (the Messiah). [Luke 2:6,7,11)
Simeon - "And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. (God's Messiah) . . . . Lord (God), now you are letting your servant depart in peace, according to your word, for my eyes have seen your salvation, that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples, a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel." (Luke 2:26,29-32)

God's word given to the prophets concerning the coming Messiah became flesh! God's plan for redemption, salvation. A child was born, a human child was born - "And the child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom. And the favor of God was upon him". (Luke 2:40)

Happy Birthday Jesus and Merry Christmas to all!

And there is nothing wrong in the context of the above nor in the way I meant it. There was great joy at the birth of Jesus and when the shepherds were told what had occurred, they traveled a great distance to see "this thing that happened", glorifying and praising God for all they had seen and heard . Wise men traveled from the East to see this great miracle, the birth of the promised King of the Jews and gave him gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. Jesus's birth was celebrated with joy and praise to God.

 

[Bthoth]

OMGosh! I never said anything about "celebrating" birthdays with cake and candles. I simply said what I said in the context of the story of Jesus's birth. A reminder of the reason for the season.

And there is nothing wrong in the context of the above nor in the way I meant it. There was great joy at the birth of Jesus and when the shepherds were told what had occurred, they traveled a great distance to see "this thing that happened", glorifying and praising God for all they had seen and heard . Wise men traveled from the East to see this great miracle, the birth of the promised King of the Jews and gave him gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. Jesus's birth was celebrated with joy and praise to God.

Do you know how many children were murdered because of such prophecies?

Just in bible, many were claimed to have died over the concept of a new king or ruler would be born.

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT INFANTICIDE

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT INFANTICIDE. Infanticide Bible verses in the King James Version (KJV) about Infanticide.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

ps... jesus was not a god, nor the long sought bringer of the revelation. Evidence: a required return to finish the job.

 

[Brian2]

Do you know how many children were murdered because of such prophecies?

Just in bible, many were claimed to have died over the concept of a new king or ruler would be born.

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT INFANTICIDE

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT INFANTICIDE. Infanticide Bible verses in the King James Version (KJV) about Infanticide.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

ps... jesus was not a god, nor the long sought bringer of the revelation. Evidence: a required return to finish the job.

The Messiah went to heaven and was given the everlasting Kingdom to rule over forever (Dan 7:13-14)
Most Jews rejected Jesus and the New Covenant and the Kingdom of God and so the word went out from Zion to the world. (Isa 2:3)
Jesus returns to resurrect everyone and judge the world after the gentiles have been told the word of God so that Abraham and his seed could be a blessing to the whole earth..
Are you saying that the scriptures tell us that the Messiah is coming once only? Maybe you can show me where the scriptures tell us that.

 

[Soapy]

OMGosh! I never said anything about "celebrating" birthdays with cake and candles. I simply said what I said in the context of the story of Jesus's birth. A reminder of the reason for the season.

And there is nothing wrong in the context of the above nor in the way I meant it. There was great joy at the birth of Jesus and when the shepherds were told what had occurred, they traveled a great distance to see "this thing that happened", glorifying and praising God for all they had seen and heard . Wise men traveled from the East to see this great miracle, the birth of the promised King of the Jews and gave him gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. Jesus's birth was celebrated with joy and praise to God.

Jesus’ BIRTH was celebrated … not THE DAY!!!

‘Christmas’ is a PAGAN CEREMONY underwritten by the Roman Catholic organisation.

The only true connection with ‘Jesus Christ’ is the theme and thought of personally getting gifts and presents, eating drinking, and music and song!

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Jesus’ BIRTH was celebrated … not THE DAY!!!

‘Christmas’ is a PAGAN CEREMONY underwritten by the Roman Catholic organisation.

The only true connection with ‘Jesus Christ’ is the theme and thought of personally getting gifts and presents, eating drinking, and music and song!

I disagree with Soapy on a lot of things, however, on this we are in agreement

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Messiah

The Messiah went to heaven and was given the everlasting Kingdom to rule over forever (Dan 7:13-14)
Most Jews rejected Jesus and the New Covenant and the Kingdom of God and so the word went out from Zion to the world. (Isa 2:3)
Jesus returns to resurrect everyone and judge the world after the gentiles have been told the word of God so that Abraham and his seed could be a blessing to the whole earth..
Are you saying that the scriptures tell us that the Messiah is coming once only? Maybe you can show me where the scriptures tell us that.

Good point...Acts 1 supports this question

Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”​

​

9After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. 10They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven3.”​

​

first time to make atonement for sin at the cross and second time to redeem the saved to God.

 

[amazing grace]

Jesus’ BIRTH was celebrated … not THE DAY!!!

‘Christmas’ is a PAGAN CEREMONY underwritten by the Roman Catholic organisation.

The only true connection with ‘Jesus Christ’ is the theme and thought of personally getting gifts and presents, eating drinking, and music and song!

A holiday or any day is celebrated as seen through the eye of the beholder.

One person believes he may eat anything while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains and let not the one who abstains put judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. . . . One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day observes it in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God . . . Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. (Romans 14:2,5,6,10)

 

[Bthoth]

The Messiah went to heaven and was given the everlasting Kingdom to rule over forever (Dan 7:13-14)

in that heaven, 'w'e all get mansions.

Most Jews rejected Jesus and the New Covenant and the Kingdom of God and so the word went out from Zion to the world. (Isa 2:3)

Jews keep the commandments by choice and basic common sense, the house of knowledge (psion) is yet to unveil.

The NEW, is to keep the rules and have empathy (grace) for the other. There is no such thing as undoing a sin. Grace is forgiving thy neighbor and not let an atrocity done to you cause a new atrocity.

Jesus returns to resurrect everyone and judge the world after the gentiles have been told the word of God so that Abraham and his seed could be a blessing to the whole earth..

Christians are gentile to the original (jews). Abraham is of story telling, not real world. The commandments are from moses/egypt which are as good then as now.

Are you saying that the scriptures tell us that the Messiah is coming once only?

Absolutely. The unveiling is a clear revelation and enables a zion (house of knowledge) and the fulfillment combining mankind with 'the name) holy of holies. The second coming, is because the people that put together the canon NT, also realized the revelation was incomplete. Jesus knew that he was not the end and why a book of revelation was written.

Maybe you can show me where the scriptures tell us that.

the book of revelation exists to perfect that missing aspect and why a 'return' is required.

Because the fulfillment was an always has been left undone. The quran itself was written in attempt to be that last (book of life).

 

[Soapy]

A holiday or any day is celebrated as seen through the eye of the beholder.

One person believes he may eat anything while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains and let not the one who abstains put judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. . . . One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day observes it in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God . . . Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. (Romans 14:2,5,6,10)

Yes, this is true… but not on theme.

Each and everyone of us must be convinced in our hearts and minds about ANY AND EVERYTHING we do. No one should say that so-and-so MADE ME do or say such-and-such.

But that’s NOT what we are disputing here. We are disputing the BASIS upon which the decision to do such-and-such.is made so those in naivety or perhaps uncertain can make the right decision for themselves. For certainly, no kind ux going to sag to s neighbour: ‘Stop celebrating Xmas!!’ Or ‘You will die if you celebrate your birthday!’ BUT we can dispute the REASON for or against each act so each one of us can decide if we feel we should do it.

Our dispute centres around the CHRISTIAN faith which is that if ‘Following Christ Jesus’. And Jesus Christ did not celebrate birthdays nor advocate such celebrations BUT he did state to commemorate HIS DEATH. Today, the mass majority of people celebrate their birthday BUT DO NOT COMMEMORATE the death of Jesus Christ … yet call themselves ‘Christians’.

As Christians we do not go around telling a Muslim or a Sikh or someone of a different faith concerning their celebrations.

 

[amazing grace]

Yes, this is true… but not on theme.

Each and everyone of us must be convinced in our hearts and minds about ANY AND EVERYTHING we do. No one should say that so-and-so MADE ME do or say such-and-such.

But that’s NOT what we are disputing here. We are disputing the BASIS upon which the decision to do such-and-such.is made so those in naivety or perhaps uncertain can make the right decision for themselves. For certainly, no kind ux going to sag to s neighbour: ‘Stop celebrating Xmas!!’ Or ‘You will die if you celebrate your birthday!’ BUT we can dispute the REASON for or against each act so each one of us can decide if we feel we should do it.

Our dispute centres around the CHRISTIAN faith which is that if ‘Following Christ Jesus’. And Jesus Christ did not celebrate birthdays nor advocate such celebrations BUT he did state to commemorate HIS DEATH. Today, the mass majority of people celebrate their birthday BUT DO NOT COMMEMORATE the death of Jesus Christ … yet call themselves ‘Christians’.

We really don't know if Jesus did not celebrate birthdays. The scripture is silent on this matter, so I don't know if he did or didn't
I never said we DON'T commemorate his death - He died, shed his blood for the forgiveness of the sins of mankind but that death means nothing if one does not believe in Jesus Christ - only when one believes in Jesus Christ does one become justified and reconciled to God by his blood. The Christian faith, being born from above, happens when one confesses Jesus is Lord and believes God raised Jesus from the dead - it is Jesus's resurrection that conquered death.

As Christians we do not go around telling a Muslim or a Sikh or someone of a different faith concerning their celebrations.

That section of scripture is not about "a Muslim or a Sikh or someone of a different faith concerning their celebrations" - it is written to brothers/sisters in Christ and is an admonition to not become a stumbling block to our brothers/sisters in Christ. We are not to quarrel over opinions nor berate someone for a simple statement of "Happy Birthday Jesus" . . . which is what Christmas should be about - the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ and that is all that was meant before all this

 

[Soapy]

We really don't know if Jesus did not celebrate birthdays. The scripture is silent on this matter, so I don't know if he did or didn't
I never said we DON'T commemorate his death - He died, shed his blood for the forgiveness of the sins of mankind but that death means nothing if one does not believe in Jesus Christ - only when one believes in Jesus Christ does one become justified and reconciled to God by his blood. The Christian faith, being born from above, happens when one confesses Jesus is Lord and believes God raised Jesus from the dead - it is Jesus's resurrection that conquered death.

That section of scripture is not about "a Muslim or a Sikh or someone of a different faith concerning their celebrations" - it is written to brothers/sisters in Christ and is an admonition to not become a stumbling block to our brothers/sisters in Christ. We are not to quarrel over opinions nor berate someone for a simple statement of "Happy Birthday Jesus" . . . which is what Christmas should be about - the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ and that is all that was meant before all this

Ooohhh… no, no, no…. ‘Happy Birthday Jesus’ is SO SO SO WRONG!!!!!…

‘His resurrection conquered death’? Now that IS a stumbling block to understanding the scriptures?

God raised Jesus from the dead… That is not what is meant by ‘Conquering death’:

• “… so that by [Jesus’] death [Jesus] might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.” (Hebrews 2:14-15)
• “Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.” (Col 1:22)

and most of all, this:

• “For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.” (1 Cor 11:26)… “do this, whenever you eat / drink, in remembrance of me.” (1 Cor 11:24 & 25)

Now show me even one single verse where Jesus commemorates his BIRTH… Of even one verse to the believers or the church that commemorates Jesus’ BIRTH!!

And I don’t mean ‘recounting his birth’!