Jesus - First Born?

[amazing grace]

Ooohhh… no, no, no…. ‘Happy Birthday Jesus’ is SO SO SO WRONG!!!!!…

‘His resurrection conquered death’? Now that IS a stumbling block to understanding the scriptures?

God raised Jesus from the dead… That is not what is meant by ‘Conquering death’:

• “… so that by [Jesus’] death [Jesus] might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.” (Hebrews 2:14-15)
• “Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.” (Col 1:22)

and most of all, this:

• “For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.” (1 Cor 11:26)… “do this, whenever you eat / drink, in remembrance of me.” (1 Cor 11:24 & 25)

Now show me even one single verse where Jesus commemorates his BIRTH… Of even one verse to the believers or the church that commemorates Jesus’ BIRTH!!

And I don’t mean ‘recounting his birth’!

Thank you Soapy for your comments.

And I'll end my contribution reiterating Romans 14:
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. . . 19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. . . 22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.

So, if I want choose to acknowledge the birth of Christ (Jesus's birthday) at Christmas, it's not "wrong" but done in honor of the Lord giving thanks yo God for his Son.

 

[Soapy]

Thank you Soapy for your comments.

And I'll end my contribution reiterating Romans 14:
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. . . 19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. . . 22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.

So, if I want choose to acknowledge the birth of Christ (Jesus's birthday) at Christmas, it's not "wrong" but done in honor of the Lord giving thanks yo God for his Son.

You have picked the wrong end of the burning brand stick!!!

‘Giving thanks to God for the deliverer’ IS NOT CELEBRATING JESUS’ BIRTHDAY!!!!

We can celebrate the coming of the messiah at ANY TIME of the year… And here are some further FACTS:

1. The day of Jesus’ birth is not recorded
2. The season of Jesus’ birth is not recorded
3. The Gifts given at his birth are SYMBOLIC elements concerning his life - they are not PRESENTS….!!!
4. The 25th December is NOT A CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY… it is a PAGAN Roman ceremonial day
5. God (nor Jesus) ever established a commemoration of celebration day for Jesus’ birth
6. The only commemoration (not even Celebration! day was for Jesus’ DEATH … the day that brought Salvation to all mankind - Salvation from what was the eternal sin of Adam

So, you might DESIRE to join in with a birthday celebration bug you do so now knowing that you are really participation in a z pagan ceremony DISGUISED as a Christian festival,

In fact, you see now that really, xmas is NOT EVEN ABOUT JESUS anymore. It’s about self indulgence, partying, drinking to excess, receiving presents that are either over costly or are actually of no real need.

The reason it has come to this is exactly because it is Pagan. The attraction of believing you are doing the right thing in glory of God over the years draws you in until you don’t notice the subtle changes because you are IN IT… And now you are finding it difficult to realise what you have gotten into - you still IMAGINE that you are praising God…

If you feel you ARE praising God for Jesus then DO GOOD TO OTHERS who are not of your family… Feed the poor - Give them a gift!! Preach the hope in Christ to the non-Christian.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

OMGosh! I never said anything about "celebrating" birthdays with cake and candles. I simply said what I said in the context of the story of Jesus's birth. A reminder of the reason for the season.
And there is nothing wrong in the context of the above nor in the way I meant it. There was great joy at the birth of Jesus and when the shepherds were told what had occurred, they traveled a great distance to see "this thing that happened", glorifying and praising God for all they had seen and heard . Wise men traveled from the East to see this great miracle, the birth of the promised King of the Jews and gave him gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. Jesus's birth was celebrated with joy and praise to God.

Since Jesus was executed in the Spring Jewish Month of Nisan at age 33 1/2 then Jesus would have turned 34 in the Autumn of the year.
So, I don't see the connection as 'a reminder of the reason for the season', but the Saturnalia was the reason for the December season.
Please show where the shepherds traveled a great distance ______________
Also, the un-numbered Magi did travel a great distance but the star lead them to Jerusalem to Jesus' enemy.
Later, by the time they found Jesus he was already a young child living in a house according to Matthew chapter two (2).
That helps explain why the children age 2 or younger were murdered by Jesus' enemies.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Do you know how many children were murdered because of such prophecies?
Just in bible, many were claimed to have died over the concept of a new king or ruler would be born.

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT INFANTICIDE

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT INFANTICIDE. Infanticide Bible verses in the King James Version (KJV) about Infanticide.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

ps... jesus was not a god, nor the long sought bringer of the revelation. Evidence: a required return to finish the job.

Jesus taught at Luke 19:11-15 that he would first journey to a far country ( aka Heaven ) before returning.
Thus, he would 'Not immediately' return in kingdom glory.
Jesus is the one with the ' sword-like executional words ' found at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15
* First evidence is there would be the international or global proclaiming about God's kingdom as Jesus said at Matt. 24:14; Acts 1:8
We are finally now at that ' final phase ' of that preaching/teaching work about God's Kingdom - Daniel 2:44; Daniel 7:13-14,18.
* Second evidence is when the powers in charge will be saying, " Peace and Security....." as the ' final signal ' before the outbreak of the coming great tribulation of Rev. 7:14. - 1st Thessalonians 5:2-3 - that Rosy saying will just lead people down that old Primrose Path.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A holiday or any day is celebrated as seen through the eye of the beholder...........................................................(Romans 14:2,5,6,10)

.... and the ' eyes of the beholder ' found at Luke 22:19 were the eyes of Jesus.
Jesus set up only one calendar day to remember him, his anniversary of his day of death (Nisan the 14th day on Jewish calendar)
So, Jesus set up what is called as Good Friday as the annual day to remember him.
Like a wedding anniversary does Not always come on a Friday then what is called as Good Friday does Not always fall on a Friday.
When Jesus comes (calendar day one) it could be quite possible that the old Jewish calendar will be used once again.

 

[Ebionite]

Serpent as deceiver

In Christianity the serpent swallows:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:14

And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as YHWH had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.
Exodus 7:10-12

Now YHWH had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Jonah 1:17

There is another references to YHWH as adversary as well as the case of the numbering of Israel:

But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, [and] he fought against them.
Isaiah 63:10

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.................................But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, [and] he fought against them.
Isaiah 63:10

Isaiah 63:1-6 Edom to be uninhabited like Sodom and Gomorrah. - Jeremiah 49:7-22/ Isaiah 34:9-15
Yes, denounced by YHWH - Malachi 1:1-5
So, 'yes ' God is the Warrior. 'He' is the 'He' in this context as the Warrior.
So, the 'God of Love' is Warrior: when necessary. - Isaiah 34:2; 1st John 4:16 - because Edom hated Judah.- Psalm 137:7
So, modern-day Edom 'aka a symbol of all nations against YHWH' who prove themselves to be His enemies.
YHWH will act Not only to end wars (Psalm 46:9) but bring an end to the wicked - Psalm 37:38; 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:21-22

 

[Ebionite]

Isaiah 63:1-6 Edom to be uninhabited like Sodom and Gomorrah.

Who [is] this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this [that is] glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
Wherefore [art thou] red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
Isaiah 63:1-2

Jeremiah 49:7-22

For thus saith YHWH; Behold, they whose judgment [was] not to drink of the cup have assuredly drunken; and [art] thou he [that] shall altogether go unpunished? thou shalt not go unpunished, but thou shalt surely drink [of it].
For I have sworn by myself, saith YHWH, that Bozrah shall become a desolation, a reproach, a waste, and a curse; and all the cities thereof shall be perpetual wastes.
Jeremiah 49:12-13

Isaiah 34:9-15

The sword of YHWH is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, [and] with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for YHWH hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.
Isaiah 34:6

And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, [and] a court for owls.
Isaiah 34:13

Yes, denounced by YHWH - Malachi 1:1-5

And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Malachi 1:3

Red like wine, dragon:

Also in the Coat of Arms of the Prince of Wales (heir apparent).

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Who [is] this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this [that is] glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
Wherefore [art thou] red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
Isaiah 63:1-2
For thus saith YHWH; Behold, they whose judgment [was] not to drink of the cup have assuredly drunken; and [art] thou he [that] shall altogether go unpunished? thou shalt not go unpunished, but thou shalt surely drink [of it].
For I have sworn by myself, saith YHWH, that Bozrah shall become a desolation, a reproach, a waste, and a curse; and all the cities thereof shall be perpetual wastes.
Jeremiah 49:12-13
The sword of YHWH is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, [and] with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for YHWH hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.
Isaiah 34:6
And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, [and] a court for owls.
Isaiah 34:13
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Malachi 1:3.........................

.... and Malachi 1:3 corresponds to Romans 9:13
(Often in Scripture 'hate' means to love to a lesser degree )

 

[YoursTrue]

Do you know how many children were murdered because of such prophecies?

Just in bible, many were claimed to have died over the concept of a new king or ruler would be born.

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT INFANTICIDE

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT INFANTICIDE. Infanticide Bible verses in the King James Version (KJV) about Infanticide.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

ps... jesus was not a god, nor the long sought bringer of the revelation. Evidence: a required return to finish the job.

Psalm 137:9 is in connection with Babylon.

 

[YoursTrue]

Who [is] this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this [that is] glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
Wherefore [art thou] red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
Isaiah 63:1-2


For thus saith YHWH; Behold, they whose judgment [was] not to drink of the cup have assuredly drunken; and [art] thou he [that] shall altogether go unpunished? thou shalt not go unpunished, but thou shalt surely drink [of it].
For I have sworn by myself, saith YHWH, that Bozrah shall become a desolation, a reproach, a waste, and a curse; and all the cities thereof shall be perpetual wastes.
Jeremiah 49:12-13

I'm sorry but I'm not following your point in producing these verses. Thank you, but can you please explain?

 

[Bthoth]

Psalm 137:9 is in connection with Babylon.

7 Remember, Jehovah, for the sons of Edom, The day of Jerusalem, Those saying, `Rase, rase to its foundation!'

8 O daughter of Babylon, O destroyed one, O the happiness of him who repayeth to thee thy deed, That thou hast done to us.

9 O the happiness of him who doth seize, And hath dashed thy sucklings on the rock!


babbel on

 

[Bthoth]

I'm sorry but I'm not following your point in producing these verses. Thank you, but can you please explain?

I should have wrote the same thing, especially when you quoted a psalm about the daughter of babylon, Jerusalem, being rased

Topic is about jesus.

 

[YoursTrue]

7 Remember, Jehovah, for the sons of Edom, The day of Jerusalem, Those saying, `Rase, rase to its foundation!'

8 O daughter of Babylon, O destroyed one, O the happiness of him who repayeth to thee thy deed, That thou hast done to us.

9 O the happiness of him who doth seize, And hath dashed thy sucklings on the rock!


babbel on

Still not sure of what you are saying here...I mean how are you applying these verses?

 

[YoursTrue]

I should have wrote the same thing, especially when you quoted a psalm about the daughter of babylon, Jerusalem, being rased

Topic is about jesus.

Let's say that's true (about Jesus). Can you please summarize what points you are seeking to prove by quoting all these scriptures? If you can keep it brief that would be great, I have not read the entire thread, so maybe you can briefly summarize what you're trying to say. (Perhaps even with each scripture, as a suggestion.)

 

[Ebionite]

I'm sorry but I'm not following your point in producing these verses. Thank you, but can you please explain?

I was highlighting what I thought were important concepts from the text about Edom, and how they relate to England. This is relevant because of the British mandate for Palestine.

Drinking from the cup relates to wine and to the punishment of Babylon:

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Revelation 14:8-10

 

[Ebionite]

.... and Malachi 1:3 corresponds to Romans 9:13
(Often in Scripture 'hate' means to love to a lesser degree )

The context of Romans 9:13 relates to predestination, which is not supported by Malachi since he lived after the time of Esau.

(For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Romans 9:11-13

 

[Bthoth]

Still not sure of what you are saying here...I mean how are you applying these verses?

You posted the psalms 137: 9 on post #850. So instead of assuming you knew what it was about, i looked it up in YLT bible and copied the context.

 

[YoursTrue]

You posted the psalms 137: 9 on post #850. So instead of assuming you knew what it was about, i looked it up in YLT bible and copied the context.

I see. The entire page you posted was apparently in connection with infanticide, right? So if I understand correctly, this had to do with a practice of killing infants.

 

[Bthoth]

I see. The entire page you posted was apparently in connection with infanticide, right? So if I understand correctly, this had to do with a practice of killing infants.

my opening comment, i believe was about the horrors of infanticide that have occurred over time because of the same prophecy.