dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
What's weird is, here you say one thing. And then here you say the opposite.Now this is just getting weird. I corrected your mistake and you still brought it up and now again you are acting like it's incorrect. For the 3rd time:
It does not say Yahweh inherited the names.
What it says is:
41:01
"The Biblical God is not only generally similar to Baal as a storm God, but God inherited the names of Baal's cosmic enemies. With names such as Leviathan, Sea, Death and Tanninim."
Let's make this really obvious.
Joelr: It does not say "Yahweh inherited the names".
Joelr: It says "God inherited the names of Baal's cosmic enemies"
Total contradiction.
And I responded to this. Again I'l respond. You can't seem to address the points.Now, you've been making all kinds of noice saying, I claimed they said something they didn't say. But they did. and here you are claiming they didn't. And then you quote it yourself. And you still can't seem to figure out, that they said it.
Yahweh doesn't inherit the names? THE ENEMIES OF YAHWEH HAVE THE SAME NAMES AS BAAL. It took you 3 times to get this (or maybe more, which is why I am so uninterested in this discussion)
1) These are not cosmic enemies in the Hebrew bible. Death is not a god that gets destroyed. Leviathan is not a god that gets destroyed. The sea is not a god that gets destroyed.
2) The stories don't even match up correctly.
- Leviathan is a sea monster, LTN isn't
- LTN breathes fire, Leviathan doesn't
- LTN has 7 heads, Leviathan doesn't
- Yahweh defeats Leviathan, Baal doesn't
- Death is destroyed forever in Isaiah, Death is destined to return in the Baal Cycle
I've made a ton of good points. You can't refute any of them. Your only rebuttal is adhom, you're not a PHD.Not only that but you went on a big rant about how nothing matched and gave language lessons and had an entire dance party. For. Nothing. Unless you are just throwing garbage around to see what I'm too tired to answer. Which will work eventaully. I guess you can pretend like you finally made a good point?
Nope it doesn't say that. You added Litan in the second part but its not there... and you removed all the words in the middle.Bible - Leviathan, the felling serpent, Leviathan, the coiling serpent
Baal - Litan the fleeing serpent, Litan the coiling serpent.
This is what it says:
Best case scenario... using an english translation which borrows from Isaiah.
Isaiah: lvytn nhsh brh lvytn btn 'qltn
Baal Cycle: ltn btn brh btn 'qltn
... Leviathan serpent fleeing, leviathan serpent coiling ...
...Litan serpent fleeing, serpent coiling ...
It matches in english, 2 words match, and a similar name. That's not intertexuality as it is described in the video. And, yes, it's small. Probably the best example they've got.One small example, which matches.
Is LTN a sea monster? Is LTN defeated by Baal? Is there anything, anything at all in the Baal Cycle that matches what's happening in Isaiah besides a similarity of names?
They agree to the strawman about the bible not being true.Dr Baden, agrees
Kipp Davis, Bowed,
Professor Christine Hayes
John Collins - all agree
But when it comes to borrowing and syncretism, no, they don't agree.
Something interesting about Dr. Maeir. You probably didn't notice, but, when the question arose about where the Israelites came from. he mentioned a fringe belief that basicaly no scholars agree with. He said, some people say that the Israelites completely fabricated their identity creating something entirely new out of whole cloth. he said basically no scholars agree with that.Dr. Aren Maeir , agree
Hmmmmm, that sounds pretty similar to what Baden was saying. Fictive kinship? Dr. Maeir didn't agree with that.
The other interesting thing. When asked about the persian influence, he said, we don't know it could have been bi-directional influence. So, there you go, no concensus on that one. Even though you claim it like a gospel.
Motifs are a literary device. not theology. not syncretic... NEXT.also in the video:
16:00 John Collins, Introduction to the Hebrew Bible 3rd ed.
“Biblical creation stories draw motifs from Mesopotamia, Much of the language and imagery of the Bible was culture specific and deeply embedded in the traditions of the Near East.
Ancient writers including the ugarites, including the persians, including the bablyonians, and the akkaidans, and the assyrians... hmmm, so the direction of influence is unknown. NEXT.16:28 2nd ed. The Old Testament, Davies and Rogerson
“We know from the history of the composition of Gilamesh that ancient writers did adapt and re-use older stories……
Motifs are a literary device. Not theology. The themes can be compared, but when we do... they're opposite! Not syncretic. NEXT.It is safer to content ourselves with comparing the motifs and themes of Genesis with those of other ancient Near East texts.
adapted it to galvanize their pre-existing theology? Sure! why not? I know you like to lump everything together, but adapting, and influencing isn't the same as borrowing and syncretism. NEXT.In this way we acknowledge our belief that the biblical writers adapted existing stories, while we confess our ignorance about the form and content of the actual stories that the Biblical writers used.”
Transforms and rejects. Not syncretism. NEXT.17:24 - The Old Testament, A Historical and Literary Introduction to the Hebrew Scriptures, M. Coogan
“Genesis employs and alludes to mythical concepts and phrasing, but at the same time it also adapts transforms and rejected them”
Not syncretism. NEXT.17:55 God in Translation, Smith
“…the Bibles authors fashioned whatever they may have inherited of the Mesopotamian literary tradition on their own terms”
a great deal is false. Like 4 things. Maybe. NEXT.18:19 THE OT Text and Content, Matthews, Moyer
“….a great deal of material contained in the primeval epics in Genesis is borrowed and adapted from the ancient cultures of that region.”
Nice collection fo words. Great, it's a title of a book. Looks like it's a collection of essays. Maybe I'll get it and see how weak the arguments are. Do you own this book, Joel? Maybe you could bring some of these subtle intertexual examples? NEXT.19:30 Subtle Citation, Allusion, and Translation in the Hebrew Bible, Zevit
\Methods for identifying intersexuality and understanding borrowing
Complex juxtaposition... in other words, they're intended to oppose... not syncretic. NEXT.The Formation of Genesis 1-11, Carr
“The previous discussion has made clear how this story in Genesis represents a complex juxtaposition of multiple traditions often found separately in the Mesopotamian literary world….”
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