Jesus is not from Earth

[Just_me_Mike]

Even though he went through the ordeal of wearing flesh and partaking in the cycle we call life, this verse confirms Jesus was just a visitor.

John ch 8 vs 23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

If Jesus were just a human like us, he would never make such a statement.

Any comments?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Even though he went through the ordeal of wearing flesh and partaking in the cycle we call life, this verse confirms Jesus was just a visitor.

For you confirmation appears to be a thin gruel indeed.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

First of all, itwillend, it is widely known that Jesus didn't say that. ... John did, and it's a theological statement based on John's interpretation of who Jesus was. John believed that Jesus was the Son of God, but also a human being (see John chapter 1).

To answer your question:

IMHO, in a time and place where people are closer to nature and the land experience life differently. One could say that their entire cosmos was different, and related to it as human beings experience a side of humanity that is lost in the present Western experience.

This time and place is now in some "undeveloped" parts of the world, where 'spirits' and good and evil collide in the human experience, producing all manner of experiences that can be studied empirically but are rejected as non-historical by biblical scholars. So we have witnesses of actual events of occurances today that can be passed around orally and instantly or eventually encased in myth. Maybe some of the myth is explaning the events as non-historical.

There are and have been several masters of knowing this side of humanity. Jesus, IMHO, was one of them.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Thanks, Angellous.

Different perspectives are always good!

 

[Just_me_Mike]

OK after reading your post again, I am left with the impression that Jesus as the Son of God and not from this world is just a result of John in this example overstating the reality and turning a brilliant man into God. Please correct me if I am wrong.

What do we then do with a virgin birth? From your studies is that too part of the myth of Jesus?

Thanks again...

 

[Just_me_Mike]

AE I have another question. On the same topic in order to swallow what you are proposing I feel like I would have to throw out much of the Book of Rev, please elaborate a little.

Thanks

 

[tumbleweed41]

If Jesus were just a human like us, he would never make such a statement.

Any comments?

I am human.

But I am perfectly able to make such a statement. Untrue though it may be.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

AE I have another question. On the same topic in order to swallow what you are proposing I feel like I would have to throw out much of the Book of Rev, please elaborate a little.

Thanks

I don't have a clue what you're talking about...

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I don't have a clue what you're talking about...

I think you might have missed one of my posts up there.

What I am talking about is you indicate Jesus did not say he was not from Earth, yet in revelation it also seems to indicate Jesus is not from Earth..

That is what I wanted elaboratioon on, if you will.

Thanks...

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I think you might have missed one of my posts up there.

What I am talking about is you indicate Jesus did not say he was not from Earth, yet in revelation it also seems to indicate Jesus is not from Earth..

That is what I wanted elaboratioon on, if you will.

Thanks...

OK, I think that you asked me if I thought that you would find this in the other Gospels, and I don't think so...

As for Revelation, it's written in the tradition of John... read Rev. 1.1.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

OK, I think that you asked me if I thought that you would find this in the other Gospels, and I don't think so...

As for Revelation, it's written in the tradition of John... read Rev. 1.1.

What does"in the tradition of John" mean?

Thanks...

 

[Mr Cheese]

Even though he went through the ordeal of wearing flesh and partaking in the cycle we call life, this verse confirms Jesus was just a visitor.

John ch 8 vs 23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

If Jesus were just a human like us, he would never make such a statement.

Any comments?

This is referring to the Idea that Jesus is not of this earth...

"Be in the world but not of it"

Essentially Jesus is saying he is of God, as opposed to the world of Men, politics, duality, petty laws, petty arguments etc.

Beneath or below signifies mundane or average conciousness. The Person before they have interacted with the divine, passed through a mystical transformation, or more simply waking conciousness that is not meditating/contemplating.

We find this idea in Gnosticism in pretty much all its many groups. It is here Gnostic detractors or those that simply do not understand Gnosticism proclaim that Gnostics:

hate the world
Want to leave it
Feel imprisoned.

Actually this issu is again more about conciousness.
To be of the below, the world would be akin to being a child.
When you have grown up, you "see" more, have a bigger perspective.
You are of the above, of God.

It is not a question of hatred, or escape, its a question of being in the world but not of it.

We can see this in Islam through the guise of Sufism. The Sufi proclaim they are not of this world, they are Kings...not of this world and are to leave this world.

This is of course where scholars and literalists run into a muddy pit.... Statements such as those made in the OP have to be read through the lense of reading between the lines.

.,.....

“His name is Amun-el and he called himself Y’su Mashiana (Yeshu messiah).
He appears to you and says to you:
‘Come and stand beside me and you shall not be burned…
He says: ‘ I am Alaha (’God’), I have been sent here by my father’.
And he further says to you:
‘I am the first messenger, I am Hibil-Ziwa I have come from the great heights”

–Ginza Rba, the great treasury (Mandaean Holy book)

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What does"in the tradition of John" mean?

Thanks...

Revelation claims to be written by John - it's an apocalyptic theological reflection and not a literal explanation of who Jesus is or what he said.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Revelation claims to be written by John - it's an apocalyptic theological reflection and not a literal explanation of who Jesus is or what he said.

So if nothing is as it seems, and in order to understand the bible as you do, how is the average person suppose to do such a thing? Essentially you are offering up a version (maybe shared by many others) of what is legit and what is not.

Would you mind answering a personal question? What do you base your belief in God on? Do you know God from reading the scriptues or through personal experience, or something altogether different.

Thanks AE...

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Also, if Jesus didn't say those things, what did Jesus say?
Is there an approved list somewhere that tells what Jesus may have or actually said?

Thanks...

 

[Rayne]

My mind is blown.

/sarcasm

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Would you mind answering a personal question? What do you base your belief in God on? Do you know God from reading the scriptues or through personal experience, or something altogether different.

Thanks AE...

For the latest - see http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/philosophy/85818-atheist-theology-humanist-collective.html

Especially the second post.

 

[Herr Heinrich]

OK after reading your post again, I am left with the impression that Jesus as the Son of God and not from this world is just a result of John in this example overstating the reality and turning a brilliant man into God. Please correct me if I am wrong.

What do we then do with a virgin birth? From your studies is that too part of the myth of Jesus?

Thanks again...

Isn't the virgin birth only mentioned in one book of the New Testament?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Even though he went through the ordeal of wearing flesh and partaking in the cycle we call life, this verse confirms Jesus was just a visitor.

John ch 8 vs 23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

If Jesus were just a human like us, he would never make such a statement.

Any comments?

Hi itwillend, yes, he is what is known in the Hindu religion as an avatara, a divine incarnation.

The mystery of how a perfect spiritual deity could incarnate in this world since there is no karma outstanding is explained in esoteric lore as follows. First the soul of the avatara to be incarnates in a human body as per normal and after completing spiritual purification and the completion of all outstanding worldly karma, an integration of soul of the avatara and the overshadowing deity takes place and the two then are as one at which time the divine mission begins.The Hindu Krishna is another example of an avatara.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Even though he went through the ordeal of wearing flesh and partaking in the cycle we call life, this verse confirms Jesus was just a visitor.

John ch 8 vs 23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

If Jesus were just a human like us, he would never make such a statement.

Any comments?

You confuse a spiritual truth with a physical truth.

Christ was made man.
Luke 1:35 (King James Version)


35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


John 1:14. Says the Word was made flesh. Jesus Christ was a human being made by the power of God himself. The first man also made by the power of God. From the things God created... namely the soil in Adams case. The second Adam, Jesus Christ made again from the soil in the form of a woman... Christ was the Word made flesh and so he was fully a man.