Jesus is under subjection to God.

[Desert Snake]

...furthermore GODHEAD is an entirely FOREIGN concept from scripture itself, MADE UP in the later ECF'S minds.

No it isn't. That's why in Genesis, it states that we were made in 'their' image, or in the text, ''our'' image, //ie the Godhead.
'make man in our image'.

 

[nothead]

Doesn't make any difference. The bible alludes to that fact, and the church confirms it. That it is not explicit in some "Jesus quotation is immaterial.

Directly abrogates the Great Command: YHWH Elohim, YHWH one. Cannot be unless you take away Moses' Torah altogether.

 

[nothead]

No it isn't. That's why in Genesis, it states that we were made in 'their' image, or in the text, ''our'' image, //ie the Godhead.
'make man in our image'.

The WE and US are abrogated by almost 11,000 verbs and pronouns in the singular, sir. Denoting God. MY God not your heretical God.

Hint: every rabbinical commentary has God speaking to angels here.

 

[nothead]

I believe philosophy can be confusing and complicated. I could attempt to put it in street terms for you if you would like.

Street lingo: Bamboozlin.

 

[nothead]

I believe the physical has no part in the spiritual. John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 4:24 God is a Spirit:

The Hindus think so but I believe there is no support for this concept in the Bible.

Mat 24 suggests that Jesus will not be around when the earth literally expires.

I believe this is not true. The perception is that Jesus is only part of God but the truth is that God is not divided nor affected by our perceptions.

Again this is Hindu belief but there is no evidence in the Bible to support it.

You will have to accompany concepts with supporting scripture. I have read scipture many times so I know what it says but there are always new percetpions that God provides me.

The best perspective is the Judaic POV. This is called "authorial intent." If you don't believe in this, that the scripture is inspired, then why read it at all? At all? Did I stutter?

 

[nothead]

Revelation 22:13 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

^Jesus speaking to John in Revelation.

Jesus is the first and the last. He is eternal.

No precept can abrogate the First Command of Jesus in Mk 12. NO OTHER BUT HE, said by the scribe, as the known Jewish Default.

So, how can the Father have begotten Him? Because He was eternally begotten. There wasn't some fixed point at which the Son came into existence. And why should the Father begetting the Son imply the Father is greater than the Son? Isn't that just your opinion? There was no point at which there was only the Father, and then the Son was begotten. The Father was and is eternally begetting the Son. It isn't a matter of cause and effect.

Yes it is. Father creates all. He is the only uncreated.

Like I said, the Trinity has different roles, but are equal in substance.

Trinity is hokey, blokey, and smokey. And not true.

 

[rusra02]

Jesus said that He is in the father, and the father in Him. This clearly backs the traditional notion, which many seem unfamiliar with, that Jesus is in fact God. Jesus is a manifested human form of the father, here on earth, /in Israel, and in Spirit form, one with the father. That's why you can worship either. You're worshipping the same Godhead.

What Scripture are you referring to?

 

[cataway]

No it isn't. That's why in Genesis, it states that we were made in 'their' image, or in the text, ''our'' image, //ie the Godhead.
'make man in our image'.

just a thought I had if, God was a trinity would we as well be trinity's? after all we are made in God's image

 

[Kolibri]

@nothead I really liked your replies in post #56. My only issue with your synopsis is based off of Philippians 2:5-7. There it shows Jesus making a decision and taking action in preparing himself prior to his life being transferred to the womb of Mary. Jesus therefore was an angel prior to being human. In all other ways I felt your line of reasoning solid.

"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God's form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave's form and became human. (Lit., "came to be in the likeness of men.")"

 

[nothead]

@nothead I really liked your replies in post #56. My only issue with your synopsis is based off of Philippians 2:5-7. There it shows Jesus making a decision and taking action in preparing himself prior to his life being transferred to the womb of Mary. Jesus therefore was an angel prior to being human. In all other ways I felt your line of reasoning solid.

"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God's form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave's form and became human. (Lit., "came to be in the likeness of men.")"

When you assume you put to shume you and me...why you ASHUME Christ was a babe when acting as a slave or common man before men? See you progression: angel (flying around adult-like) to babe (suckling with loud noises) to man (gaining in wisdom and grace).

The verse addressed the fact that Jesus did not come as a king, with finery and pomp. There's no context for US to be like him, ifn HIM is as you say...like we ain't no angels to start with, and such least my momma told me I wasn't. MORPHE: apparent appearance. You still have trin-terp on yo' bean, sir.

 

[Kolibri]

When you assume you put to shume you and me...why you ASHUME Christ was a babe when acting as a slave or common man before men? See you progression: angel (flying around adult-like) to babe (suckling with loud noises) to man (gaining in wisdom and grace).

The verse addressed the fact that Jesus did not come as a king, with finery and pomp. There's no context for US to be like him, ifn HIM is as you say...like we ain't no angels to start with, and such least my momma told me I wasn't. MORPHE: apparent appearance. You still have trin-terp on yo' bean, sir.

Notice that it said Jesus' "emptied himself." He left behind his life experiences. It is probable they were returned to him at his baptism when the 'heavens opened up' to him.

"After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God's spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him."- Mt 3:16
"Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus too was baptized. As he was praying, the heaven was opened up, and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him. - Lu 3:21,22a

We are told to be like Christ in showing humility - a willingness to sacrifice what he had for others. We do not need to live his life to learn from his examples. We can discern a pattern and apply it to our own lives.

(Edit: I am still trying to wrap my head around your written dialect It uses some turns of a phrase I am as yet unfamiliar with. "trin-terp" specifically)

 

[Desert Snake]

just a thought I had if, God was a trinity would we as well be trinity's? after all we are made in God's image

'Trinity' is just a descriptive term for three different manifestations of the same Deity. We are made in the image of God, however does that mean we share all the attributes of God? Do you believe that we share all the attributes of God?

 

[nothead]

Notice that it said Jesus' "emptied himself." He left behind his life experiences. It is probable they were returned to him at his baptism when the 'heavens opened up' to him.

This whole EMPTY stuff seem full of baloney...how can a "god" as JW's say empty himself of divine experience, knowing, power or anything else, and remain "a god?"
I like KJV better: "made himself of no reputation," which conforms to the "form of God" being idiomatic for the finery of Solomon "in all of his (apparent) glory."

Now we have a passage we can emulate and be behoovin' to.

"After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God's spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him."- Mt 3:16
"Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus too was baptized. As he was praying, the heaven was opened up, and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him. - Lu 3:21,22a

Pentecostal. Oh you ain't, sorry. Pentecostal terminology.

We are told to be like Christ in showing humility - a willingness to sacrifice what he had for others. We do not need to live his life to learn from his examples. We can discern a pattern and apply it to our own lives.

Yeah that was it, be humble. But Jesus was in reality the King of Jews, being the Son of God or Christ, anointed and sent by his God. He was pre-existent from Judaic POV for pre-existence, the Word being "Jesus" determined before the world was. It is a consideration of Sovereign perspective, in a limited sense since we ain't got a clue WHAT God's Sovereign perspective is most times.

(Edit: I am still trying to wrap my head around your written dialect It uses some turns of a phrase I am as yet unfamiliar with. "trin-terp" specifically)

It is a regional patois. The region: earth. Trin-terp: trinitarian interpretation. Smart phone talky, like them smart kids do.

 

[nothead]

'Trinity' is just a descriptive term for three different manifestations of the same Deity. We are made in the image of God, however does that mean we share all the attributes of God? Do you believe that we share all the attributes of God?

How you make Persons Attributes? No attribute has a mind it's own, not in any class I ever took. LOVE is an attribute, even SPIRIT. But God's spirit is the Spirit of the Father, the Father of Spirits in fact. It's PERSON is the Father first and may take on other persons too, like Elijah, or Christ. In other words, it has no person of it's own.

No man in Bible addresses the Holy Spirit directly and verbally. No man PRAYED to the Holy Spirit, who has no name IF it is a "who."

 

[Desert Snake]

How you make Persons Attributes? No attribute has a mind it's own, not in any class I ever took. LOVE is an attribute, even SPIRIT. But God's spirit is the Spirit of the Father, the Father of Spirits in fact. It's PERSON is the Father first and may take on other persons too, like Elijah, or Christ. In other words, it has no person of it's own.

Attributes in our perception of /Deity. Like the attributes of a tree could be the leaves, fruit, etc. They appear differently.

 

[Desert Snake]

How you make Persons Attributes? No attribute has a mind it's own, not in any class I ever took. LOVE is an attribute, even SPIRIT. But God's spirit is the Spirit of the Father, the Father of Spirits in fact. It's PERSON is the Father first and may take on other persons too, like Elijah, or Christ. In other words, it has no person of it's own.

No man in Bible addresses the Holy Spirit directly and verbally. No man PRAYED to the Holy Spirit, who has no name IF it is a "who."

''Mind of it's own?" The Deific nature of Jesus is of the father, otherwise we would have polytheism. Even the RCC and other Trinitarian churches all declare themselves monotheistic, officially. Obviously they do not view the trinity the same way you are viewing it.

 

[Kolibri]

@nothead "This whole EMPTY stuff seem full of baloney...how can a "god" as JW's say empty himself of divine experience, knowing, power or anything else, and remain "a god?""

Exactly. Jesus was not as mighty as he was when he was in heaven, or as mighty as he was after he returned to dwell with his Father. As a human he was "a little lower than angels" with power within the bounds of what is expected of men (outside of the things he did with the aid of God's holy spirit.) (Hebrews 2:9)

"a mighty one(a god)" of John 1:1 is prior to "became flesh" of John 1:14. He did not reclaim that powerful spirit form he had till his resurrection.

How can we know the mechanics of what Jesus did in heaven to prepare himself? We do not know angelic biology. Not knowing the mechanics does not mean it did not happen that way.

 

[nothead]

With minds and self-awareness and will/desire? What other attribute of anything have this unless the "anything" is a unity of individuals? God is a single of.

 

[Desert Snake]

With minds and self-awareness and will/desire? What other attribute of anything have this unless the "anything" is a unity of individuals? God is a single of.

Who's worshipping a ''man''? In xianity, Jesus is part man or in the likeness of a man. You seem to have created a different narrative for the Bible.

 

[nothead]

Exactly. Jesus was not as mighty as he was when he was in heaven, or as mighty as he was after he returned to dwell with his Father. As a human he was "a little lower than angels" with power within the bounds of what is expected of men (outside of the things he did with the aid of God's holy spirit.) (Hebrews 2:9)

Or, he was MADE a little under the angels at birth. Psalm 22 lovin' his God at his mother's breast.

"a mighty one(a god)" of John 1:1 is prior to "became flesh" of John 1:14. He did not reclaim that powerful spirit form he had till his resurrection.

Or he never had any consciousness whatsoever until the seed became a fetus. Never thought of that did you? Oh I know. The elders don't really want you to think, on your own that is...sorry for denigrating your elders. I had them too, another time, another denom.