Jesus sacrifice is completely pointless

[outhouse]

. I find the suggestion to be humorous that Christianity can't withstand the scrutiny of a hand full of forum members.

Well that depends on the scrutiny.

We cannot prove imagination or mythology is anything but that.

But considering you have not brought anything truly historical that could stand on its own to this forum, what do you really want to debate?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It becomes rather necessary when you consider the culture conditions from whence it came and where it went. Jesus is really nothing more than one of many tortured, slain, and resurrected deities that are a part of a long tradition in many places, but especially in Middle Eastern, African, Mesopotamian, and Babylonian lore were we find a lot of them. And they also tend to descend to the underworld, battle with what is often an evil sibling or other relative, and rise victorious later, sometimes even three days later. It necessary in the sense that it is necessary to have him being born around the time of the Winter Solstice in order to make it easier to assimilate Pagans who were already celebrating the birth of their Sun gods during that time.

 

[outhouse]

Jesus is really nothing more than one of many tortured, slain,

But what made him different is it really happened, he was not a mythical creation like other deities.

Now yes, all the mythology you claim was important to Hellenist, and the dogma grew.

But things like dying and rising gods was not adopted from other myths many think are involved. This existed in Judaism and that was plagiarized in depth.


Just because there are patterns in mythology of deities, does not mean some of these were the foundation for this man.

 

[outhouse]

one of many tortured, slain, and resurrected deities

What other tortured deities are you speaking about?

How many were resurrected ? if there are many

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But what made him different is it really happened, he was not a mythical creation like other deities.

There is no evidence to suggest Jesus was real, that he was crucified, or that he was the son of god and promised messiah of the Jews.

What other tortured deities are you speaking about?

How many were resurrected ? if there are many

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying-and-rising_god
he concept of dying-and-rising god was first proposed in comparative mythology by James Frazer's seminal The Golden Bough. Frazer associated the motif with fertility rites surrounding the yearly cycle of vegetation. Frazer cited the examples of Osiris, Tammuz, Adonis and Attis, Dionysus and Jesus Christ.[6]
Frazer's interpretation of the category has been critically discussed in 20th-century scholarship,[7] to the conclusion that many examples from the world's mythologies included under "dying and rising" should only be considered "dying" but not "rising", and that the genuine dying-and-rising god is a characteristic feature of Ancient Near Eastern mythologies and the derived mystery cults of Late Antiquity.[8]
he motif of a dying deity appears within the mythology of diverse cultures – perhaps because attributes of deities were derived from everyday experiences, and the ensuing conflicts often included death.[9] [10][11] These examples range from Baldr in Norse mythology to the feathered serpent Quetzalcoatl in Aztec mythology to the Japanese Izanami.[10][12][13]

 

[Neo Deist]

There is no evidence to suggest Jesus was real, that he was crucified...

Incorrect.

From the Historicity of Jesus Wikipedia entry:

Roman historian Tacitus referred to 'Christus' and his execution by Pontius Pilate in his Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44. The very negative tone of Tacitus' comments on Christians make the passage extremely unlikely to have been forged by a Christian scribe. The Tacitus reference is now widely accepted as an independent confirmation of Christ's crucifixion...

Jesus lived.
Jesus was crucified under Pilate's governorship.

That's all Tacitus' commentary states. There is nothing that corroborates Jesus as the messiah, divine, performing miracles, etc.

 

[outhouse]

There is no evidence to suggest Jesus was real,

There is plenty. Like it or not, he has historicity.

that he was the son of god and promised messiah of the Jews.

The Hellenist who called jesus "son of god" were calling the Emperor "son of god" a week before.

Jesus was not a messiah to jews, only to Hellenist who were perverting Judaism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying-and-rising_god

I asked you to name one that was similar to jesus, not supply a link that states the opposite

"dying" but not "rising",

Now you said there were many but you have not brought up a single one so we can go through the details.


Don't bring anything from AchyraS she is a hack

 

[outhouse]

Incorrect.

You are correct.

I would also add crucifixion and baptism are said to be so certain they are fact as any historical aspect could be.

 

[Intojoy]

“but we preach Christ crucified, unto Jews a stumblingblock, and unto Gentiles foolishness;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:23‬ ‭ASV‬‬
http://bible.com/12/1co.1.23.asv

 

[wizanda]

What particular statements or teachings that contradict with Christ teachings?
I think it is better to cite some scriptures for example at least one to start with.

This is why when (first) replied to you posted all the threads on the forum, explaining where Paul, John and Simon are in error.

This parable is not about inheritance or something that they will get.

Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

John’s gospel is telling us who Jesus was?

John doesn't know who Yeshua is, he completely contradicts his ideology in the synoptic gospels, there are no parables, doesn't speak the same as him, instead comes across as an egotistical law breaker.

This is why in Rom. 8:1 says there will be no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Paul's words don't count, he contradicts Yeshua; sends people to hell, therefore he has no power in his words...

By what Paul teaches you're condemned according to the Law, so you're hardly free of condemnation, instead the opposite.

 

[cambridge79]

Christianity has been debated for centuries by some of the best minds on the planet, both for and against. I find the suggestion to be humorous that Christianity can't withstand the scrutiny of a hand full of forum members.

best minds are the product of their times. Most of them are outdated ( Leonardo da Vinci was one of the best minds of all times, but he is an outdated source, If we talk about "electricity" i'm more an expert than he could ever be.) so the best minds of the enlightment for example weren't provided with all the historical evidences we have now: i will never be as bright as voltaire but in debating creationism for example i have all the last 100 years of discoveries that i can rely on on my side, he didn't have them.

Also, with the usual honesty when they raised fair points they simply were ignored because believers don't care about the truth, they care only about what they want to believe: for example, if you put in a room me, you and a muslim i am 100% correct and you can't prove me wrong if i say "guys, i accept i may be wrong, but you can't be both right at the same time: so i'm 100% sure that one of you believe in a false god". what do you think would happen at that point? Both of you start investigating you own beliefs to see if you got something wrong, or each one of you would go out of the room believing that "of course it's the other guy the wrong one!" not moving an inch from your position?

 

[Scott C.]

Welll that depends on the scrutiny.

We cannot prove imagination or mythology is anything but that.

But considering you have not brought anything truly historical that could stand on its own to this forum, what do you really want to debate?

The comment that Christianity can't withstand scrutiny strikes me as a bit presumptuous. That was my only point. I didn't plant to debate the need for a divine sacrifice, which is what this thread is about.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

But what made him different is it really happened, he was not a mythical creation like other deities.

Now yes, all the mythology you claim was important to Hellenist, and the dogma grew.

But things like dying and rising gods was not adopted from other myths many think are involved. This existed in Judaism and that was plagiarized in depth.


Just because there are patterns in mythology of deities, does not mean some of these were the foundation for this man.

However, it's possible the other myths are simply what happened to Jesus. Give it enough centuries/millennia and you get gods dying instead of just "that one guy".

 

[outhouse]

The comment that Christianity can't withstand scrutiny strikes me as a bit presumptuous.

No it is not.


Most every post I have seen you reply in, you go against academia and promote pseudohistory.

 

[Smart_Guy]

No it is not.


Most every post I have seen you reply in, you go against academia and promote pseudohistory.

Which is not credible

 

[outhouse]

However, it's possible the other myths are simply what happened to Jesus.

Well we have the jesus myth in islam

We have the jesus myth in Christianity

But they have a historical core.

Baptism by John, and crucifixion are certainties, beyond that and it gets pretty wild.

Now, we are not sure in many cases where some of the original stories started with Jesus or were adopted from other prophets. We don't know whether Apollonius influenced the myths of Jesus or jesus influenced his mythology.

We see the authors using the Emperor and Moses, and other characters in the jesus myths quite clearly paralleling history and divinity.

. Give it enough centuries/millennia and you get gods dying instead of just "that one guy".

possible

But jesus started no other mythology, that we can see. Other then his own.

 

[outhouse]

Which is not credible

Many when he states Israelites have been to the USA.

And we showed him credible sources with links that state they are not credible.

Again just following academia he refuses

 

[Smart_Guy]

Many when he states Israelites have been to the USA.

And we showed him credible sources with links that state they are not credible.

Again just following academia he refuses

That... was a joke. It was a reference for what you always say "credible source".

Sorry

 

[outhouse]

That... was a joke. It was a reference for what you always say "credible source".

Sorry

When I first started here, everything I would say was challenged, and I was told to do such.

I did, and guess what I learned

In a historical aspect, its needed. If your just debating theology not so much. But it sure helps if you know where the middle of the road is in an academic sense.

 

[atpollard]

We will attack this from a different angle, just for you.
What made Jesus famous?

A dead man came back to life and said that we could, too.

[EDIT: oops, looks like I came too late.]