Jesus thought polygamy is OK!

[IndigoChild5559]

You clearly do NOT understand my arguments. If you did, you would accept Yeshua, who fulfilled ALL the law's requirements, as your Savior.

See, that just strikes me as arrogant. It makes it seem like there is no possibility that you are wrong, and no possibility that your arguments are flawed. Dude, have a little humility. All human beings make mistakes.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You are really confused. You clearly don't understand Christian doctrine.

Did you want to address the verse from Acts that I quoted?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

John was testifying about who Jesus was. That has nothing to do with repentance.

All I can do is refer you back to my previous posts, which show that John's baptism were all about repentance.

 

[jimb]

Did you want to address the verse from Acts that I quoted?

No. Unlike yourself, I understand context. Do you understand what eisegesis means?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No.

Suit yourself. Score one point for IndigoChild.

 

[jimb]

@IndigoChild5559, I challenge you to read Hebrews, particularly chapter 11, which describes those Hebrews who had true faith and lived by it: Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, the people of Israel(!), and Rahab. Also mentioned are Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel, and all the Hebrew prophets.

Yet all these, though they were commended for their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better so that they would not, apart from us, be made perfect. (Hebrews 11:39-40)

Better yet, I challenge you to read The Letter to the Hebrews(!) in its entirety.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

@IndigoChild5559, I challenge you to read Hebrews, particularly chapter 11,

Oh puhleeze. You just don't listen.

1. I have already studied Hebrews in great depth. Again it is only your arrogance that tells you that "If they read what I read, they will agree with me."

2. Hebrews has no authority to me. I'm a Jew. It is not part of my sacred texts. For me, reading Hebrews is no different from reading the Quran or the Book of Mormon. Hebrews is good for learning what and how Christians think. But it is worthless to me for how *I* should think.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

2. Hebrews has no authority to me. I'm a Jew.

^ this

 

[jimb]

Oh puhleeze. You just don't listen.

1. I have already studied Hebrews in great depth. Again it is only your arrogance that tells you that "If they read what I read, they will agree with me."

2. Hebrews has no authority to me. I'm a Jew. It is not part of my sacred texts. For me, reading Hebrews is no different from reading the Quran or the Book of Mormon. Hebrews is good for learning what and how Christians think. But it is worthless to me for how *I* should think.

Okay, here is what I know.

I have been married for 56 years. I am certain that I love my wife and I am certain that she loves me. I certain of what I do not see! I am sure that we will remain married until the end of our life together. That is how Hebrews 11:1 should be understood! My faith makes me sure of what I hope for and certain of what I do not see. Your attitude is like a single person who demands proof that I love my wife. S/he doesn't understand because s/he is single and has never known marital love. You don't understand my faith because you lack real faith. You think it's belief when it is actually knowledge.

Maybe you have studied Hebrews in great depth but -- and I will try to be kind here -- you don't believe what it says. To you it's just religious philosophy because you lack faith. As you said above, to you, it's like reading the Quran and the Book of Mormon because you lack faith. In other words, you lack real understanding because you lack faith.

And being a Jew means nothing. I am also a Jew, as was Yeshua and all the authors of the "books" of the Bible (Luke being the sole exception). And as I said previously, all the first "Christians" were Jews. So being a Jew is no excuse for lack of faith!

You can remain as you are and not accept "the way, the truth, and the life". It makes as much sense to me as someone boasting about being single because s/he has never experienced true love. Both are very sad.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Maybe you have studied Hebrews in great depth but -- and I will try to be kind here -- you don't believe what it says.

Exactly. We are connecting at last.

To you it's just religious philosophy because you lack faith.

I have all sorts of faith. I have faith in God. But not in Hebrews.

I am also a Jew,

Are you saying your mom was a Jew, and her mom, and her mom? That practiced Judaism? Or was she also a Jesus believer?

So being a Jew is no excuse for lack of faith!

Like I said, I don't lack faith. My faith is simply placed in things differently than you.

 

[Kenny]

Look at example in Matthew 25. Jesus is giving a parable. But in His mind, it is ok 10 virgin girls have one and the same husband:

"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

“At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’"

“But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut."

A great example of how you read into a parable what you want to see versus finding out what Jesus was talking about...

Matt 13:
PHILLIPS
“Because you have been given the chance to understand the secrets of the kingdom of Heaven,” replied Jesus, “but they have not. For when a man has something, more is given to him till he has plenty. But if he has nothing even his nothing will be taken away from him. This is why I speak to them in these parables; because they go through life with their eyes open, but see nothing, and with their ears open, but understand nothing of what they hear. They are the living fulfilment of Isaiah’s prophecy which says: ‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, and seeing you will see and not perceive; for the heart of this people has grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, lest they should understand with their heart and turn, so that I should heal them’.

 

[jimb]

Exactly. We are connecting at last.

I have all sorts of faith. I have faith in God. But not in Hebrews.

Are you saying your mom was a Jew, and her mom, and her mom? That practiced Judaism? Or was she also a Jesus believer?

Like I said, I don't lack faith. My faith is simply placed in things differently than you.

My mother was a Jew, as was her ancestors for GENERATIONS. So, I am a Jew, just like Moses, Yeshua, et al.

Is your faith REAL FAITH, i.e., knowledge, or pseudo-faith, i.e., hope?

 

[jimb]

See, that just strikes me as arrogant. It makes it seem like there is no possibility that you are wrong, and no possibility that your arguments are flawed. Dude, have a little humility. All human beings make mistakes.

So, it strikes you as arrogant. Who are you to judge me?

I find that your judgement of me is arrogant. So, why don't you show a little humility?

See how worthless this type of discussion is?

Now, do you want to discuss the issue or devolve the discussion into ad hominem criticism?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So, it strikes you as arrogant. Who are you to judge me?

I DO judge people based on their behavior. I don't judge them based on their religious beliefs or ethnicity or sex or how thin they are. But behavior? Yes, I very much do. It's called having good judgment.

I find that your judgement of me is arrogant. So, why don't you show a little humility?

See how worthless this type of discussion is?

I see that you are deflecting, rather than replying to the behavior of yours that I have called into question.

Now, do you want to discuss the issue or devolve the discussion into ad hominem criticism?

Putting a label on behavior is not an ad hominem attack. If I call Epstein a pedophile, is that an ad hominem attack?

 

[jimb]

I DO judge people based on their behavior. I don't judge them based on their religious beliefs or ethnicity or sex or how thin they are. But behavior? Yes, I very much do. It's called having good judgment.

I see that you are deflecting, rather than replying to the behavior of yours that I have called into question.

Putting a label on behavior is not an ad hominem attack. If I call Epstein a pedophile, is that an ad hominem attack?

Try reading this: "“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure you receive. Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye,’ while there is a beam in your own? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." Matthew 7:1-5

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Try reading this: "“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure you receive. Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye,’ while there is a beam in your own? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." Matthew 7:1-5

This passage is NOT designed to teach that we should never judge. It IS designed to teach we should not be hypocrites.

Second, what have I told you about how worthless it is to quote the NT to a Jew?

 

[Kenny]

My mother was a Jew, as was her ancestors for GENERATIONS. So, I am a Jew, just like Moses, Yeshua, et al.

Is your faith REAL FAITH, i.e., knowledge, or pseudo-faith, i.e., hope?

How did you come to accept Jesus as the Messiah? (If I can ask)

 

[jimb]

This passage is NOT designed to teach that we should never judge. It IS designed to teach we should not be hypocrites.

Second, what have I told you about how worthless it is to quote the NT to a Jew?

a) Correct. So, what's your point?

b) I am Jew and I find the NT to be God's ultimate written message to humanity.

1) Are you boasting about Jews having a closed mind???
2) Almost all the New Testament was written by Jews.
3) Yeshua HAMASHIACH (When He was on Earth) was a Jew.
4) ALL the first Christians were Jews.
5) Simply because it's called "The New Testament" doesn't mean it's not for Jews. (It should really be called "The Second Testament"
6) Galatians 3:28-29, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female--for all of you are one in Christ Jesus" !!!!!!!!

See how absurd your negativity is? How absurd to divide people into Jews and goyim?

 

[jimb]

How did you come to accept Jesus as the Messiah? (If I can ask)

Sure.

I was born a Jew and raised in a (reformed) Jewish home. I had a very unhappy childhood, due primarily to an overbearing, selfish father. I prayed often to God to change the situation, but nothing ever happened. I was Bar Mitzvah at age 13, and thought that then God would intervene, but nothing changed. So I became an atheist! Since God didn't care about me, why should I believe that He exists?

Fast forward a number of years. I was a hippie farmer in Minnesota. A Pentecostal preacher came regularly to our farm and we ARGUED about God, Christ, religion, etc. Neither one of us gave an inch.

Then I was hospitalized with severe asthma; the doctors could NOT break the spasm! The preacher came to visit me, but my wife made her promise not to get me excited. She came into my room, asked me how I was doing, read me some Scripture -- Matthew 11:28-30 -- and prayed "Jesus, heal this man". INSTANTLY, the spasm was broken and my entire body was flooded with a love I had never known. I immediately became a Christian!!!

There is more to tell if you're interested...

 

[jimb]

One additional thing I want to point out...

A person's ethnicity isn't worth a damn. The Jews are NOT "God's chosen people". That is total nonsense. "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave His one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son to condemn the world, but that the world [everyone: Jews and non-Jews] should be saved through him." John 3:16-17, NET translation