• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus was a Jew. When did his followers stop being Jews?

Jesus was a Jew teaching his followers. I have heard Jews refer to him as a Rabbi.
He said that he didn't come to destroy the (Mosaic) Law, but to fulfill it. (Matt 5:17-20)
Therefore, are Christians allowed to call ourselves Jews?
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Jesus was a Jew teaching his followers. I have heard Jews refer to him as a Rabbi.
He said that he didn't come to destroy the (Mosaic) Law, but to fulfill it. (Matt 5:17-20)
Therefore, are Christians allowed to call ourselves Jews?
No. Jews will always be those who keep the Torah, but Pauline letters suggest gentiles are no longer separate from the household of faith if they keep Jesus commands. It is a matter of lifestyle. If you follow Jesus you will be part of the household of faith, even though you aren't a Jew. It is a lot more strenuous than just being a 'Noahide'. You will be following some commands to love your enemies, invite the poor to parties instead of friends and families, forgiving all offenses etc.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Why would they stop being Jews? The Jews were God's chosen people. Jesus never told anyone to stop being a Jew. He told them to follow God's laws, which were the same laws given to the Jews.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
That is an assumption most likely tainted with simplistic 21st century presuppositions of what being a 1st century Jew entailed.
You made a simplistic 21st century presupposition that it was a simplistic 21st century presupposition of the first century. But the post didn't actually say that.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Jesus was a Jew teaching his followers. I have heard Jews refer to him as a Rabbi.
He said that he didn't come to destroy the (Mosaic) Law, but to fulfill it. (Matt 5:17-20)
Therefore, are Christians allowed to call ourselves Jews?

There is no doubt that Israel features very strongly in God's purpose. It isn't that Jesus' disciples stopped being "Jews" but that when Gentiles became accepted into the Christian arrangement without being converted to Judasim, the Jews rejected them, and intensified their hate campaign against the Christians and the hated Gentiles.

I know how Jewish people feel about "replacement theology" but God is the one who deems what a real "Jew" is...and it isn't just being a descendant of Abraham.

John the Baptist said to the religious leaders...“You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 10 The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire."

There was the warning. But they failed to "produce the fruit that befits repentance". So a new nation was chosen to represent the interests of God's Kingdom on earth.

At a meeting of the apostles and older men in Jerusalem over the circumcision issue, Acts 15:13-20 reports:

After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, “Brethren, listen to me. 14 Simeon [Peter] has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. 15 With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,

16 ‘After these things I will return,
And I will rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen,
And I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will restore it,
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’

18 Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.

19 s, 2Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood."

(Amos 9:11-12)
A 'spiritual' Jew was one whose circumcision was of the heart by spirit, not by a cut on the flesh. God's law was also not in a written code, but inscribed on the heart. (Romans 2:28-29)

The 'law of love' that Jesus spoke about was based on the Law of Moses. Its main tenets were love of God and neighbor. (Matthew 22:36-40) The principles of the law still applied.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Jesus was a Jew teaching his followers. I have heard Jews refer to him as a Rabbi.
He said that he didn't come to destroy the (Mosaic) Law, but to fulfill it. (Matt 5:17-20)
Therefore, are Christians allowed to call ourselves Jews?

Rom 2:28-29 - For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, not is circumcision that which is outward of the flesh. But he is a jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Christians are spiritual Jews and our circumcision was done without hands(Col 2:11).
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
Jesus was a Jew teaching his followers. I have heard Jews refer to him as a Rabbi.
He said that he didn't come to destroy the (Mosaic) Law, but to fulfill it. (Matt 5:17-20)
Therefore, are Christians allowed to call ourselves Jews?

You may have heard some Jews refer to him such, but many of us doubt he even existed. But, even if he did and was, that doesn't mean that his followers today would be Jews.
It is Jewish law, not the Christian Bible, that determines who is a Jew.
 
When did his followers stop being Jews?

Religions tend not to emerge fully formed from a bottle, so gradually is the best answer. Some pretty quickly, other groups still retained a Jewish identity many centuries later but became increasingly marginalised.


“Jewish Christianity” is a modern term for the beliefs of those followers of Jesus who saw devotion to Jesus as part of God’s covenant with Israel, not as a transfer of God’s promise of salvation from the Jews to the gentiles. Some of them regarded Jesus as a prophet, others saw him as a heavenly power, but all retained their Jewish identity and continued to observe the law. The first Christians were all Jews, but they were not all Jewish Christians by this definition, for they disagreed over the necessity of keeping the law after the coming of Christ. The question of whether gentile believers in Christ should undergo full conversion to Judaism is a highly contentious issue in the New Testament.
Both Paul and his opponents, the leaders of the Jerusalem church, are presented as accepting that gentile Christians did not have to be circumcised or otherwise observe Jewish law (with some exceptions), but whereas Paul, “the apostle to the gentiles,” seems to have been happy with the idea of any Christ-believer abandoning Jewish law, his opponents insisted that those of Jewish origin must continue to practice it. This was the Jewish Christian position...

It was not a stable solution in the long run, and as Christianity spread among the gentiles, the latter became the dominating force. Observance of Jewish law was now forbidden and Jewish Christians were marginalized, to be described by patristic authors of the third and fourth centuries under the names of Ebionites, Nazoreans, and Elchasaites...

Originally, the bastion of law-observing Christianity was the Jerusalem church, the undisputed center of Christianity until the first Jewish war with Rome (ad 66–70). When this war broke out, the Jerusalem Christians reportedly fled to Pella (Ar. Fiḥl) in the Decapolis in Transjordan, and though some returned to the devastated city in 70, they were expelled again after the suppression of Bar Kokhba’s revolt in 135, when Hadrian forbade Jews to reside in Jerusalem. Thereafter, Jewish Christians were concentrated in the Aleppo region in northern Syria, in the Decapolis around Pella, including Dirʿa in the territory of the Ghassānids, and in the Dead Sea region, as we know from Epiphanius (d. 403) and Jerome (d. 420).


Jewish Christianity and the Qurʾān

(Part One) - Patricia Crone


There is a school of thought that Islam emerged out of one of these 'Jewish Christian' sects, although the majority of historians disagree with this view.

There is a similar question to the OP though about when the followers of Muhammad first started to consider themselves as being part of a distinct religion called Islam. In contrast to the traditional narrative, this certainly didn't happen overnight, and likely not in his lifetime.
 

capumetu

Active Member
This applies today:

(Galatians 3:26-29) . . .You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring, heirs with reference to a promise.

Although Christians today are spiritual Jews, in other words, Jehovah's covenanted people, we have been called Christians since the first century. We have always been Jehovah's Witnesses no matter what people currently call us.

capumetu @yours.com no space after u
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
You may have heard some Jews refer to him such, but many of us doubt he even existed. But, even if he did and was, that doesn't mean that his followers today would be Jews.
It is Jewish law, not the Christian Bible, that determines who is a Jew.


That depends on who is right, you or the Bible. Because of you other comments, guess who I vote for.


I zigga zoomba
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I think it's important in discussions like this to separate "Jew" and "Judaism" because they are not the same even though there's some interplay between them.
 
Top