Jesus Will Never Return

[Ben Avraham]

I agree, Rehoboam is dead. He is NOT the prince of Israel. The prince of Israel is a very specific reference to a specific INDIVIDUAL who is also the Lord's MESSIAH. The Messiah (Israel the individual) is the head of the body, the people Israel. Together, as one, they make ISRAEL. You cannot have the sheep without the shepherd! You cannot have a kingdom without the king! If you think that Jews living in Israel today constitute the 'Prince Messiah' then I think you are greatly mistaken. Some may belong to his body but many do not.

The problem here is that you are too literal with your interpretation of Messiah. You look at it in your mind as an individual and I look at it as the People. Try to understand that the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Only as a People, Israel lives forever. In the words of Mark Twain, he referred to the collective concept of Israel to speak about the immortality of the Jews in his Essay about the Jews. Prophet Habakkuk too, refers to the Anointed One of the Lord as the People if you read Habakkuk 3:13.

 

[Ben Avraham]

To add evidence to the point just made, that Judah cannot be the prince of Israel, look at 2 Samuel 7:16. Nathan says to David, 'And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.'Judah is not a king. Judah is not a throne. But Judah is a house, and it is potentially part of a kingdom. This should convince you, Ben Avraham, that the prince of Israel is the king who sits upon the throne. His people are the house and kingdom. Judah is part of his kingdom, if the people prove obedient.

And that's the House of Judah that was anointed to remain as a Lamp before the Lord forever in Jerusalem, and to produce princes to govern the Messiah. (I Kings 11:13, 36) From the beginning, Moses was the Messianic leader anointed with the mission to guide the Messiah back to the Promised Land. When the Jews were exiled in Babylon, Isaiah referred to Cyrus as an anointed with the role to proclaim freedom to the Messiah. (Isaiah 45:1) In that sense, Cyrus was a Messianic leader. Now, after two thousand years in exile throughout the four corners of the earth, I consider Theodor Herzl the Messianic leader with the role to induce the Messiah with love for Zion which has resulted in millions from among the Messiah making Aliyah to this day. Now, let me ask you a question. What did Jesus do? When he was born, the Messiah was at home though suffering under the Roman occupation, during his lifetime, that occupation only got worse and, soon after he died, theTemple was destroyed and the Messiah was exiled into the four corners of the earth for two thousands years. No offense meant but, Jesus could not classify even as a Messianic leader, let alone the Messiah!

 

[MJFlores]

Paul simply had an attack of epilepsy. If you did not know, read the Catholic Encyclopedia. Epilepsy is also called the fall disease and, all the symptoms of Paul at that event confirm the fact that he was epileptic.



As you have confirmed above, like the other men who traveled with Paul, he also didn't see any thing. It was at that moment that he decided to change his mission and stop persecuting the Nazarenes from outside to do it from within. That's why he tried to join the Sect of the Nazarenes and was rejected by the Apostles. (Acts 9:26) Logically, he could not be trusted.

This paragraph above means that many among Paul's own followers did not believe his self-claim to be an apostle. That's why Paul referred to the Apostles of Jesus in a joking manner as in "the super-apostles."

Thank you. You have confirmed my views. Israel will cease to exist only when heaven and earth have passed away. You should be thankful also to Jesus for what he said in John 4:22, that salvation comes from the Jews. "From the Jews" he said, not from one among the Jews. And that answers for the collective concept of Messiah.

[/QUOTE]

Read the Catholic Encyclopedia? Who reads an Encyclopedia? It is like reading a dictionary or thesaurus! Anyway, Catholics is not the bastion of truth. The Bible is.

You quoted: the Lord Jesus Christ in

John 4:22 New International Version (NIV)

You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Salvation from what, Ben?

You believe that when a man dies and buried, he is done and over. And according to your assertions, there is no resurrection and the title of your thread - Jesus will never return.

So, Salvation from what, Ben?


You read Acts 9:26 then pulled up the brakes. That's not good. When you break suddenly, that is dangerous.

Now from Acts 9:26-30 these are recorded:

Acts 9:26-30New International Version (NIV)

When he came to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples, but they were all afraid of him, not believing that he really was a disciple. But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. He told them how Saul on his journey had seen the Lord and that the Lord had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had preached fearlessly in the name of Jesus. So Saul stayed with them and moved about freely in Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord. He talked and debated with the Hellenistic Jews, but they tried to kill him. When the believers learned of this, they took him down to Caesarea and sent him off to Tarsus.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The problem here is that you are too literal with your interpretation of Messiah. You look at it in your mind as an individual and I look at it as the People. Try to understand that the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Only as a People, Israel lives forever. In the words of Mark Twain, he referred to the collective concept of Israel to speak about the immortality of the Jews in his Essay about the Jews. Prophet Habakkuk too, refers to the Anointed One of the Lord as the People if you read Habakkuk 3:13.

NO, Ben Avraham. You are still not getting it. I look at BOTH the individual Messiah and his people as 'the anointed'. The head is from heaven and the body is from earth. The head is necessary in bringing anointing to the whole body. Without the head, the body dies.

You have repeatedly said that every individual man, being sinful, will die. Yet you and I know that God does not die. We also know that God is the only Saviour. It is therefore only through God's salvation that death can be overcome. The dry bones will not be raised without the spirit of God. So the conclusion must be that the Messiah is to be raised from the status of servant to that of Lord. The individual Messiah is not just a man. It is God bringing salvation to earth.

Read this passage from Jeremiah 23:5,6. 'BEHOLD, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.'

Think about it. 'In his days', the days of the 'righteous Branch', Judah shall be saved. That king, or righteous Branch will be called 'THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS'. He will execute judgment and justice in the earth. That Messiah will be 'God with us'.

 

[Redemptionsong]

And that's the House of Judah that was anointed to remain as a Lamp before the Lord forever in Jerusalem, and to produce princes to govern the Messiah. (I Kings 11:13, 36) From the beginning, Moses was the Messianic leader anointed with the mission to guide the Messiah back to the Promised Land. When the Jews were exiled in Babylon, Isaiah referred to Cyrus as an anointed with the role to proclaim freedom to the Messiah. (Isaiah 45:1) In that sense, Cyrus was a Messianic leader. Now, after two thousand years in exile throughout the four corners of the earth, I consider Theodor Herzl the Messianic leader with the role to induce the Messiah with love for Zion which has resulted in millions from among the Messiah making Aliyah to this day. Now, let me ask you a question. What did Jesus do? When he was born, the Messiah was at home though suffering under the Roman occupation, during his lifetime, that occupation only got worse and, soon after he died, theTemple was destroyed and the Messiah was exiled into the four corners of the earth for two thousands years. No offense meant but, Jesus could not classify even as a Messianic leader, let alone the Messiah!

History should tell you that whilst only individual Jews received Jesus as Lord, a great multitude of Gentiles did accept Him as the Saviour of the world. The nation of Israel, for their 'offence' was torn from their land for about two thousand years. As Hosea prophesies, 'I [the Lord] will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early' (Hosea 5:15.)
Of course, this message was known from the Torah. Deuteronomy 28:62-67.
But the mercy of God is great, and in Hosea we are told, 'afterwards shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God, and David their king;' So the return to the land of Israel is associated with the redemption of Israel.

Now Israel awaits the king and Lord who will 'raise us up' (Hosea 6:2). That king is the same one that returned to heaven for two thousand years! He will come again! (See Hosea 5:15)

 

[Fool]

Jesus will never return.

A poster once told me that, in his opinion, the Second Coming of Jesus would happen only when--through entirely natural causes--our planet be on the verge of destruction, and not before.

Well, I said, I am glad to hear that because, in that case, Jesus will never return because, soon after the Flood the Lord promised Noah that He would never again allow another universal destruction to destroy Mankind as long as the natural laws function properly. (Gen. 8:21,22)

Jeremiah read that text and said that as long as the natural laws function properly Israel will never cease as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:36)

Jesus must have read those two texts; the one of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and completed the info that salvation comes from the Jews as he meant universal catastrophe. (John 4:22)

Abraham went further and said that as long as there is a minyan of ten righteous, universal destruction would never happen. (Gen. 18:32) After all this, do you still think Jesus will need to come back? Hardly! Besides, Jesus' own gospel which was the Tanach, once dead, no one will ever return if you read II Samuel 12:23; Psalms 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; etc.

and hebrews 9:27

I don't think Jesus literally meant he would return in body because he explains to some that they would see his return before their own demise. so either he comes to individuals infinitely or he's coming all at once and some will not get the opportunity to witness the coming having died, or never been born.

Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mark 9:1
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Luke 9:27
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

 

[Ben Avraham]

and hebrews 9:27

I don't think Jesus literally meant he would return in body because he explains to some that they would see his return before their own demise. so either he comes to individuals infinitely or he's coming all at once and some will not get the opportunity to witness the coming having died, or never been born.

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Well, if you read Acts 1:3, Luke says that Jesus appeared to his disciples for 40 days after his sufferings, and he would eat and drink with them just as he used to before the so-called claimed resurrection. One would not eat and drink if he was not in body. Unless, considering Luke's statement that he appeared "after his suffering," it does not necessarily mean that he resurrected. Anyway, regarding Mat. 16:28; Mark 9:1; and Luke 9:27, their statements make absolutely no sense. Perhaps the same judgment goes for Acts 1:3.

 

[Ben Avraham]

History should tell you that whilst only individual Jews received Jesus as Lord, a great multitude of Gentiles did accept Him as the Saviour of the world. The nation of Israel, for their 'offence' was torn from their land for about two thousand years. As Hosea prophesies, 'I [the Lord] will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early' (Hosea 5:15.)
Of course, this message was known from the Torah. Deuteronomy 28:62-67.
But the mercy of God is great, and in Hosea we are told, 'afterwards shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God, and David their king;' So the return to the land of Israel is associated with the redemption of Israel.

Now Israel awaits the king and Lord who will 'raise us up' (Hosea 6:2). That king is the same one that returned to heaven for two thousand years! He will come again! (See Hosea 5:15)

Okay, so let's keep waiting for another two thousand years. Pity that we will not be around to say "I told you!"

 

[Ben Avraham]

NO, Ben Avraham. You are still not getting it. I look at BOTH the individual Messiah and his people as 'the anointed'. The head is from heaven and the body is from earth. The head is necessary in bringing anointing to the whole body. Without the head, the body dies.

You have repeatedly said that every individual man, being sinful, will die. Yet you and I know that God does not die. We also know that God is the only Saviour. It is therefore only through God's salvation that death can be overcome. The dry bones will not be raised without the spirit of God. So the conclusion must be that the Messiah is to be raised from the status of servant to that of Lord. The individual Messiah is not just a man. It is God bringing salvation to earth.

Read this passage from Jeremiah 23:5,6. 'BEHOLD, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.'

Think about it. 'In his days', the days of the 'righteous Branch', Judah shall be saved. That king, or righteous Branch will be called 'THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS'. He will execute judgment and justice in the earth. That Messiah will be 'God with us'.

There is nothing you can say to a Jew that Jesus was God. He was not. He was a man and died as a man. Every individual man, being sinful or not, he will die and, as evidence of what I am telling you, he has died since Adam and up to this day. Jesus proved what I am saying by dying himself two thousand years ago.

 

[Fool]

Well, if you read Acts 1:3, Luke says that Jesus appeared to his disciples for 40 days after his sufferings, and he would eat and drink with them just as he used to before the so-called claimed resurrection. One would not eat and drink if he was not in body. Unless, considering Luke's statement that he appeared "after his suffering," it does not necessarily mean that he resurrected. Anyway, regarding Mat. 16:28; Mark 9:1; and Luke 9:27, their statements make absolutely no sense. Perhaps the same judgment goes for Acts 1:3.

the only way it could make sense; would be like a nde, or samadhi practised by yogis.

 

[wizanda]

Okay, so let's keep waiting for another two thousand years. Pity that we will not be around to say "I told you!"

With Stephen Hawkins saying we've got 100 years to find a new planet before human extinction, thousands of animals and environments being devastated by humans, and WW£ on the cards, with all nations to come against Israel, we've not got 100 years left.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Read the Catholic Encyclopedia? Who reads an Encyclopedia? It is like reading a dictionary or thesaurus! Anyway, Catholics is not the bastion of truth. The Bible is. You quoted: the Lord Jesus Christ in John 4:22 New International Version (NIV) You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Salvation from what, Ben? You believe that when a man dies and buried, he is done and over. And according to your assertions, there is no resurrection and the title of your thread - Jesus will never return. So, Salvation from what, Ben? You read Acts 9:26 then pulled up the brakes. That's not good. When you break suddenly, that is dangerous. Now from Acts 9:26-30 these are recorded: Acts 9:26-30New International Version (NIV) When he came to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples, but they were all afraid of him, not believing that he really was a disciple. But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. He told them how Saul on his journey had seen the Lord and that the Lord had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had preached fearlessly in the name of Jesus. So Saul stayed with them and moved about freely in Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord. He talked and debated with the Hellenistic Jews, but they tried to kill him. When the believers learned of this, they took him down to Caesarea and sent him off to Tarsus.

I'll tell you how I read in the Catholic Encyclopedia. First, I found the subject New Testament and, under that theme, I came about Paul as being the son of a well-to-do couple of Hellenists from Tarsus in the Cilicia. Then, I found out that Paul was a Hellenistic Jew from birth.

Now, regarding the quote of John 4:22, there are two kinds of salvation. One is salvation from universal catastrophic events for instance, of the size of the Flood. If you read Genesis 8:21,22, the Lord promised Noah that He would never again allow another disaster to destroy the earth as long as the natural laws worked properly. Prophet Jeremiah must have read that text and got Divinely inspired to connect God's promise to Noah with the existence of Israel upon earth if you read Jeremiah 31:35-37. That as long as the natural laws operated in order, Israel would not cease to exist. Of course, Jesus read both texts, the one of Genesis 8:21,22 and Jeremiah 31:35-37 and concluded that "universal" salvation would come from the Jews. (John 4:22)

Now, the other kind of salvation is personal salvation which one can achieve only by obedience of the Law. Jesus himself also said that to achieve salvation, one must listen to "Moses" aka the Law if you read Luke 16:29-31. Last but not least, Prophet Isaiah said that, to set things right with God so that our sins, from scarlet red become as white as snow, we must repent, make reparations and return to the obedience of God's Law. (Isaiah 1:18,19) That's personal salvation. So, to achieve universal salvation is a free gift and we have it as long as there is a minyan of ten Jews upon earth. This is from Genesis 18:32 when the Lord said to Abraham that if there were only ten righteous men in Sodom and Gomorrah He would not have allowed those cities to be destroyed. From here, we have taken the concept of the Minyan which means that as long as there is a Minyan of ten Jews, universal salvation is guaranteed. Hence, Jesus' saying that salvation comes from the Jews. Universal salvation there is.

 

[MJFlores]

I'll tell you how I read in the Catholic Encyclopedia. First, I found the subject New Testament and, under that theme, I came about Paul as being the son of a well-to-do couple of Hellenists from Tarsus in the Cilicia. Then, I found out that Paul was a Hellenistic Jew from birth.

Now, regarding the quote of John 4:22, there are two kinds of salvation. One is salvation from universal catastrophic events for instance, of the size of the Flood. If you read Genesis 8:21,22, the Lord promised Noah that He would never again allow another disaster to destroy the earth as long as the natural laws worked properly. Prophet Jeremiah must have read that text and got Divinely inspired to connect God's promise to Noah with the existence of Israel upon earth if you read Jeremiah 31:35-37. That as long as the natural laws operated in order, Israel would not cease to exist. Of course, Jesus read both texts, the one of Genesis 8:21,22 and Jeremiah 31:35-37 and concluded that "universal" salvation would come from the Jews. (John 4:22)

Now, the other kind of salvation is personal salvation which one can achieve only by obedience of the Law. Jesus himself also said that to achieve salvation, one must listen to "Moses" aka the Law if you read Luke 16:29-31. Last but not least, Prophet Isaiah said that, to set things right with God so that our sins, from scarlet red become as white as snow, we must repent, make reparations and return to the obedience of God's Law. (Isaiah 1:18,19) That's personal salvation. So, to achieve universal salvation is a free gift and we have it as long as there is a minyan of ten Jews upon earth. This is from Genesis 18:32 when the Lord said to Abraham that if there were only ten righteous men in Sodom and Gomorrah He would not have allowed those cities to be destroyed. From here, we have taken the concept of the Minyan which means that as long as there is a Minyan of ten Jews, universal salvation is guaranteed. Hence, Jesus' saying that salvation comes from the Jews. Universal salvation there is.

If you find it strange and obscure that some Jews are swirling chickens around their heads while reading the scriptures.

It would be equally weird for me to conform to a source other than the bible as you are puzzled with Kaparrot. So insisting the encyclopedia is like insisting a chicken pooping on me.

What is the danger that a person should have salvation?

Nobody lives forever, everyone dies - so it is not this earthly death we are talking about. Not even personal safety. So what is the danger that my Lord Jesus preached to have salvation?

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

 

[Redemptionsong]

There is nothing you can say to a Jew that Jesus was God. He was not. He was a man and died as a man. Every individual man, being sinful or not, he will die and, as evidence of what I am telling you, he has died since Adam and up to this day. Jesus proved what I am saying by dying himself two thousand years ago.

In effect, Ben Avraham, you are saying that you don't believe the scriptures. The Tanach is a word painting, where every verse is a brush stroke. Stand back and you'll see the Word of God - Christ Jesus.

Is Jesus dead? Of course not. He made a very clear reference to the sign of Jonah before he was crucified. He said, 'For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.'

So what happened after three days and three nights? Doesn't Jonah tell us? Or don't you believe the word of Jonah?

 

[Ben Avraham]

In effect, Ben Avraham, you are saying that you don't believe the scriptures. The Tanach is a word painting, where every verse is a brush stroke. Stand back and you'll see the Word of God - Christ Jesus. Is Jesus dead? Of course not. He made a very clear reference to the sign of Jonah before he was crucified. He said, 'For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.' So what happened after three days and three nights? Doesn't Jonah tell us? Or don't you believe the word of Jonah?

The dream of Jonah had absolutely nothing to do with Jesus. The Hellenist who wrote the book attributed to Matthew was a former disciple of Paul's. He, the author, even committed a blunder when he specified "three days and three nights" (Mat. 12:40) and Jesus did not spend more than about three hours in the tomb before he was was removed by Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus and transferred into another place where they could take care of his woulds. (John 19:38,39)

 

[Ben Avraham]

If you find it strange and obscure that some Jews are swirling chickens around their heads while reading the scriptures. It would be equally weird for me to conform to a source other than the bible as you are puzzled with Kaparrot. So insisting the encyclopedia is like insisting a chicken pooping on me. What is the danger that a person should have salvation? Nobody lives forever, everyone dies - so it is not this earthly death we are talking about. Not even personal safety. So what is the danger that my Lord Jesus preached to have salvation? Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

The Catholic Church is a Christian church. What's weird to conform to a Christian authority? It would be weird for me as a Jew but not for you as a Christian. The only danger to prevent one from having salvation is transgression of the Law if you read Luke 16:29-31. That's from Jesus according to Christian sources. Now, to the statement that "nobody lives forever, every one dies", we all are eyewitnesses to the fact but, to prove eternal life, you need faith and it still can't be proved. Last but not least, the gospel you are proud of did not include the Gentiles. Jesus said, "To the Jews only and then to the lost Tribes of Israel", if you read Mat. 10:5,6 and 15:24. Jesus said to his disciples that the gospel of salvation should not be spread among the Gentiles, especially if they were of the Samaritan kind. What do you have to say about all this? It is all from the NT.

 

[MJFlores]

The Catholic Church is a Christian church. What's weird to conform to a Christian authority? It would be weird for me as a Jew but not for you as a Christian. The only danger to prevent one from having salvation is transgression of the Law if you read Luke 16:29-31. That's from Jesus according to Christian sources. Now, to the statement that "nobody lives forever, every one dies", we all are eyewitnesses to the fact but, to prove eternal life, you need faith and it still can't be proved. Last but not least, the gospel you are proud of did not include the Gentiles. Jesus said, "To the Jews only and then to the lost Tribes of Israel", if you read Mat. 10:5,6 and 15:24. Jesus said to his disciples that the gospel of salvation should not be spread among the Gentiles, especially if they were of the Samaritan kind. What do you have to say about all this? It is all from the NT.

Ben Avraham, I do not subscribe to the teachings of the Catholic Church. I was born a Catholic but I joined the Church of Christ later on. I found the truth, why would I live a lie? Why would I conform to teachings not found in the Bible - be it the Old or the New Testament? Trinity baloney, infant baptism, worship of Mary and the Saints - why would I subscribe to that? The Bible is the sole authority.

It is correct that the Lord Jesus have instructions to preach in Israel only during his time on earth, when he was sent by God.

Matthew 10:5-6 New International Version (NIV)

These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 New International Version (NIV)

He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

But after he was crucified, died, buried and raised by God from the dead and taken away to heaven - it was time for the Gentiles. How was this carried out?

Acts 9:10-16 New International Version (NIV)

In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”

“Yes, Lord,” he answered.

The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”

“Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”

But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”

And of course Saul became Paul preached the gospel to the Gentiles.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Ben Avraham, I do not subscribe to the teachings of the Catholic Church. I was born a Catholic but I joined the Church of Christ later on. I found the truth, why would I live a lie? Why would I conform to teachings not found in the Bible - be it the Old or the New Testament? Trinity baloney, infant baptism, worship of Mary and the Saints - why would I subscribe to that? The Bible is the sole authority. It is correct that the Lord Jesus have instructions to preach in Israel only during his time on earth, when he was sent by God. Matthew 10:5-6 New International Version (NIV) These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. Matthew 15:24 New International Version (NIV) He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” But after he was crucified, died, buried and raised by God from the dead and taken away to heaven - it was time for the Gentiles. How was this carried out?

Jesus never had a church. Jews don't gather in churches. It was Jesus' custom rather to gather in synagogues for the Shabbat and daily prayers. Then, you found the Truth, didn't you? Great! Can you now tell me what is the Truth? If you don't remember, check what Jesus said in John 17:17. The Truth, he said, is the Word of God. If you read further, the Psalmist said in his prayer to God, "Thy Word is a Lamp to my feet and a light to my path." (Psalm 119:105) And if you still wonder about who has the Word of God, take a look at Psalm 147:19,20 where we have that the Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. So, whenever you read the NT and find something that's not in the Tanach, it is because the whole NT cannot be addressed as the Word of God. Bodily resurrection is not in the Tanach. Rather the opposite is true if you read II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; etc.

Acts 9:10-16 (NIV) In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!” “Yes, Lord,” he answered. The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.” “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.” But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” And of course Saul became Paul preached the gospel to the Gentiles.

Now, tell me, who wrote this text above? If you don't remember, Luke, a Hellenist Greek Doctor; Paul's Doctor. He probably knew that Paul was desperate for credibility for his mission, and that was a prime chance to add a vote for Paul. I am simply making use of Logic. So, it still does not constitute a fact that Jesus, post-mortem, decided to anoint Paul when his own Apostles had rejected him as a persecutor of the Nazarenes, a Sect organized by Jesus' own Apostles. (Acts 9:26)

 

[MJFlores]

Jesus never had a church. Jews don't gather in churches. It was Jesus' custom rather to gather in synagogues for the Shabbat and daily prayers. Then, you found the Truth, didn't you? Great! Can you now tell me what is the Truth? If you don't remember, check what Jesus said in John 17:17. The Truth, he said, is the Word of God. If you read further, the Psalmist said in his prayer to God, "Thy Word is a Lamp to my feet and a light to my path." (Psalm 119:105) And if you still wonder about who has the Word of God, take a look at Psalm 147:19,20 where we have that the Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. So, whenever you read the NT and find something that's not in the Tanach, it is because the whole NT cannot be addressed as the Word of God. Bodily resurrection is not in the Tanach. Rather the opposite is true if you read II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; etc.

Now, tell me, who wrote this text above? If you don't remember, Luke, a Hellenist Greek Doctor; Paul's Doctor. He probably knew that Paul was desperate for credibility for his mission, and that was a prime chance to add a vote for Paul. I am simply making use of Logic. So, it still does not constitute a fact that Jesus, post-mortem, decided to anoint Paul when his own Apostles had rejected him as a persecutor of the Nazarenes, a Sect organized by Jesus' own Apostles. (Acts 9:26)

Jews don't gather in churches - if you did you won't be Jews.

Jews would like to pray to a wall - I don't know why, do you? Is that even in the Old Testament bible?

It would be like talking to a wall or something.

Ben, tell me what is written in:

Zephaniah 1:2-4 New International Version (NIV)

“I will sweep away everything
from the face of the earth,”
declares the Lord.
“I will sweep away both man and beast;
I will sweep away the birds in the sky
and the fish in the sea—
and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble.”
“When I destroy all mankind
on the face of the earth,”
declares the Lord,
“I will stretch out my hand against Judah
and against all who live in Jerusalem.
I will destroy every remnant of Baal worship in this place,
the very names of the idolatrous priests—

AND tell me how do you and your family plan to escape this?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Jews don't gather in churches - if you did you won't be Jews.
Jews would like to pray to a wall - I don't know why, do you? Is that even in the Old Testament bible? It would be like talking to a wall or something. Ben, tell me what is written in: Zephaniah 1:2-4 New International Version (NIV) “I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth,” declares the Lord. “I will sweep away both man and beast; I will sweep away the birds in the sky and the fish in the sea—and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble.” “When I destroy all mankind on the face of the earth,” declares the Lord, “I will stretch out my hand against Judah and against all who live in Jerusalem. I will destroy every remnant of Baal worship in this place, the very names of the idolatrous priests—AND tell me how do you and your family plan to escape this?

Right! Jews don't gather in churches. That's not that the Jews like to pray to a wall but at the memory the Wall represents. The destruction of the Temple. Hence, it is called "The Wailing Wall" aka the Wall of Lamentations. The custom does not come from the Tanach but from the time the Temple was destroyed. The quote in Zephaniah 1:2-4 is a reference to the destruction of Temple. "I'll destroy Mankind from the face of the earth" is a hyperbolic statement of the prophet as a sign of emotional eruption due to the adoption of the cult of Baal and to the hosts of Heaven from the roofs of their dwellings.