• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jewish perspective on intermarriage

I was wondering, what the Jewish perspective on intermarriage was. I was reading this article on AISH.com, called 'What's Wrong with Intermarriage?', and I was just wondering, is that view more the Orthodox (or Haredi?) perspective, and do other denominations have other perspectives?.

Thanks for any replies.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
I was wondering, what the Jewish perspective on intermarriage was. I was reading this article on AISH.com, called 'What's Wrong with Intermarriage?', and I was just wondering, is that view more the Orthodox (or Haredi?) perspective, and do other denominations have other perspectives?.

Thanks for any replies.

I don't know about the AJC statistics that author quoted, but intermarriage is definitely a prevalent problem in modern Judaism. And while I confess I am a bit surprised by the moderate nature of an article from Aish, I cannot find fault with this piece.

Intermarriage has always been considered prohibited, in part because the Torah commands us not to take "foreign" women to wife (or men as husbands). The Rabbis of the Talmud strengthened this prohibition considerably, because Judaism was in the midst of its first major crisis of assimilation: Hellenization, and the concomitant Romanization, were drawing Jews away from the path of Torah and mitzvot with promises of culture, status, wealth, and acceptance. In order to try and stem the tide of losses to our people, the Rabbis strengthened not only the law against marrying non-Jews (and its inevitable role in drawing Jews away from Judaism), but also the cultural distaste for such an occurrence.

This remained the norm until the Reform movement's middle years, in the early 20th century. Up until that point, even Reform Jews had for the most part refused to marry out, but finally, it became an increasing phenomenon. This was less so outside the United States, but the problem is still more relevant among the Reform than among Conservative or Orthodox, even there. But in America, because of a confluence of the classic Reform position that Jewish law is binding only insofar as one chooses it to be, and laws that are "archaic and arcane" may usually be dispensed with; and the increasing association of the Reform movement with the academic and political movements of pluralism and postmodernism, the Reform movement found itself unwilling to restrain, condemn, or entirely reject the rising tide of intermarriage and assimilation that it found itself dealing with by the 1970s and 1980s. Instead, they claimed that "welcoming" and "bringing in" intermarried couples and non-Jewish spouses would result in more non-Jewish spouses converting to Judaism. They also promulgated the doctrine of patrilineal descent (that one can be counted as Jewish if either mother or father were Jewish, which was an unprecedented innovation) as a response to growing intermarriage. Unfortunately, more non-Jewish spouses did not convert, and children of Jewish fathers and non-Jewish mothers were now not even converted at birth by their fathers (far easier than converting as an adult), and the Reform movement is now deeply in crisis as over 60% of their membership are intermarried, and some estimates say that nearly 25% are not halakhically Jewish at all.

The growing problem of intermarriage is also present in the Conservative movement. It is estimated that perhaps as much as 25% of the Conservative movement in America are intermarried, although most Conservative Jews who identify or affiliate as such, if intermarried, do convert their children if necessary, and the rate of spouses converting to Judaism is generally higher than in the Reform movement. In the Masorti (Conservative) movement outside America, the problem is far, far less prevalent. Also, the Conservative movement's authorities have taken clear steps to indicate that intermarriage is not acceptable behavior for Jews. While no one is shamed publicly, many communities are tacitly unwelcoming to intermarriage, and it is still usually considered a family shondeh (calamity or curse) for a member to intermarry. Conservative rabbis are prohibited from conducting or even attending intermarriages, on pain of ejection from the Rabbinical Association (the international body of Conservative/Masorti rabbis), and also from accepting patrilineal descent, on pain of the same consequence. Much like in Orthodoxy, intermarriage is something of the cardinal sin in traditional Conservative Judaism, on a par with apostasy. The leftmost wing of the movement regards it less strictly, but usually still finds it unfortunate, if tolerable at necessity.

Even the right wing of the Conservative movement usually shies away, though, from some of the more extreme reactions in Orthodoxy (though intermarriage in Orthodoxy is far less prevalent). I have known several occurrences in Orthodox families, and the member who intermarried was disowned, cut off, and the parents actually sat shiva and said kaddish for the "lost" child. In one occurrence, the disowning was so complete that the man's own mother refused to mention his name again, and spit if anyone else did so. While I heartily disapprove of intermarriage, that seems an unhealthy and unproductive response to me.

The small movements to the left of the Reform movement don't appear to care at all about intermarriage, but then they mostly don't care about observance of commandments at all in any case.

I must confess that personally, I hold very little sympathy for intermarriers. Jews have a duty to the Jewish people. And if we do nothing else, we must at least preserve the integrity of the people for the sake of the generations, and the Covenant. Twice in my life, I was involved with non-Jewish women that I loved very much, and would have married. They could not find it in themselves to convert, and the relationships ended, because that was the right thing to do. I am nothing special, and have no particular strength of will or ability to harden my heart. But I did what I had to do, even though it wrung my heart, because it is wrong to put my own selfish needs above the survival of my people. And if I could do it, anyone could do it. So there is just no excuse for those who won't.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
In a somewhat related subject Levite, how do you view a potential convert who's spouse does not plan on converting?
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
If you're asking for the traditional Jewish view, I would say that it is probably that whether one converts or not, intermarriage is prohibited, and if one converts and one's spouse refuses, that presents a serious problem of conflicting obligations that, unfortunately, has very little flexibility under the halakhah.

But if you're asking what I personally think...I think this is a little different. I mean, I certainly think that it's preferable for the whole family to convert together. And I would wish ideally that at least the children could be brought up Jewish.

But I also understand that this is a particularly difficult situation, in that when one got married, there was no obligation not to marry a non-Jew. And a person can be drawn to become a Jew, and yet their partner may not, and while the law in a pure and ideal form may say that a person in such a position must choose, real life simply isn't that clear cut and easy. Human feelings aren't that simple.

What would I advise such a person? I don't know. I am not sure there is any kind of easy solution to the situation. Obviously, it's not reasonable to expect someone-- especially someone who's just coming to a new way of dealing with life and God and self and spirituality-- to break apart their family. It just can't be done. And yet it can't be denied that such a person does leave themselves in a difficult position with the tradition.

I guess what I would hope, realistically, is that such a person would try to do the best they can balancing their obligations, and their heart. I would hope that their Jewish community would be sympathetic and understanding and welcoming. This actually is the one kind of situation where I do think that probably the best solution for the community is to be welcoming to the entire family, and to treat them all warmly, and at worst, make a hard situation easier; and at best, perhaps in doing so, the rest of the family may, over time, feel inclined to follow the one converting, and give an ideal solution to the conflict.

But, in contrast to the Jew who, indifferent to tradition and law, flagrantly intermarries, the convert whose family are not (yet) interested in converting is someone I do have sympathy for, and to whom I don't see any guilt or blame attached. It is an incredibly hard situation to be in, and I could only hope it could be made easier. Being a Jew By Choice (the current preferred term for 'convert' in liberal Judaism) is an incredibly courageous and admirable decision. Doing so with so many challenges, in the face of so much potential for hurt and grief, to my mind makes it all the more admirable and courageous. The fact that, from the community and tradition's point of view, the situation is still...unfortunate...changes nothing, I think.
 

Dena

Active Member
I don't know about Tarheeler but for me this has been the first time I've had to make a really serious decision for me and my husband. It's been extrememly difficult and we've just begun. We don't yet have children which will bring in a whole new dimension. The Rabbis here have been really understanding which I appreciate. None of them refused to work with me, including the two from the Conservative movement. I've been a bit shocked at how difficult it was to make the decision to convert and with whom to work. Then again, at 28 I am still young in many ways and I've lived much of my life trying to make other people happy. To make such a serious decision for myself is a big deal but to make one for my husband as well has been a whole new world. I am grateful for his patience and willingness to go down this path with me. Actually, today I noticed he told someone that though he has no intent to convert with me now, in time that may change. So, we'll see.

I know here the Reform don't seem to have much of a problem with intermarriage. Perhaps on an individual level but as a whole it isn't a big deal (though they do encourage the non-jewish spouse to be a part of the community and raise their children in the community). However, I know there are a few Reform Rabbis in our community who will not officiate an interfaith wedding. I'm not sure if that is the case elsehwere?

The Conservative Rabbi I was going to work with prior to now expects his conversion students to commit to marrying a Jewish partner. If they are unwilling to do that, he won't work with them.
 

Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member
As I Daven at a Reform Temple, I see many intermarried families. I see many non-Jewish spouses that are fully supportive of the community, and are committed to raising their children Jewish. Sometimes it takes years for the spouse to also convert, but this does happen I've seen, even after decades. The thing is, the non-Jewish spouse might simply not have the faith to convert, perhaps they are Agnostic? Do we want converts who don't believe in their heart? I think not. If they are supportive then give them space. Remember that a Convert has a much bigger family circle other than their spouse, and their decision is likely causing problems and conflicts with their entire family. Parents 'sitting Shiva' isn't exclusively a Jewish response I know a Convert who's RC parents basicially did the same thing, and disowned them. To cause friction for the Ger with their spouse during this traumatic time is simply too much.

Of course, what I meet at Reform services are affiliated Jews, I won't meet couples who are at odds because the spouse has a different faith and there's no agreement on how to raise the children, which usually results in them being raised 'both' or nothing at all. Worse still is the state of secular Jews who are not affiliated at all, with any branch, and their numbers are not trivial.

From my own culture, I know that a non-Jewish husband isn't nearly as big a problem as a non-Jewish wife. If the woman is Jewish the children will be Jewish no matter what. A non-Jewish woman who isn't converting... a much bigger issue.

edit...
If memory serves me right, something like 40% of American Jews are Reform while less than 10% are Orthodox leaving 50% of all American Jews as unaffiliated or in other branches. We see our Reform congregation numbers swell 10X for High Holiday services, with most being unaffiliated families or Reform who simply can't afford membership.

A rather dated but good book on this issue is Reuven P. Bulka's 'The Coming Cataclysm'. His thrust is we find a solution to the 'Who is a Jew' issue or run a real risk of a Schism.
 
Last edited:

Levite

Higher and Higher
I don't know about Tarheeler but for me this has been the first time I've had to make a really serious decision for me and my husband. It's been extrememly difficult and we've just begun. We don't yet have children which will bring in a whole new dimension. The Rabbis here have been really understanding which I appreciate. None of them refused to work with me, including the two from the Conservative movement. I've been a bit shocked at how difficult it was to make the decision to convert and with whom to work. Then again, at 28 I am still young in many ways and I've lived much of my life trying to make other people happy. To make such a serious decision for myself is a big deal but to make one for my husband as well has been a whole new world. I am grateful for his patience and willingness to go down this path with me. Actually, today I noticed he told someone that though he has no intent to convert with me now, in time that may change. So, we'll see.

I know here the Reform don't seem to have much of a problem with intermarriage. Perhaps on an individual level but as a whole it isn't a big deal (though they do encourage the non-jewish spouse to be a part of the community and raise their children in the community). However, I know there are a few Reform Rabbis in our community who will not officiate an interfaith wedding. I'm not sure if that is the case elsehwere?

The Conservative Rabbi I was going to work with prior to now expects his conversion students to commit to marrying a Jewish partner. If they are unwilling to do that, he won't work with them.

It sounds like you (and your husband) are doing a great job with something that must be very hard at times. I hope you know how really amazing what you're doing is. And I'm really glad that you've found rabbis who will work with you, and communities that are welcoming. That's no small thing.

To speak to a couple of your points, though, in general, the populace of the Reform movement is far more blase than its leadership about intermarriage. And as for rabbis in the field, I would estimate that somewhere between half and two thirds of them presently will perform intermarriages, and in some areas probably more.

And in the Conservative movement, it is the policy to demand of single converts that they commit to marrying a Jew. However, when it comes to converts already married to non-Jewish spouses, I don't believe the movement has a single firm policy in place. My guess is that officially, the movement would discourage such conversions without some evidence that the other spouse is at least considering conversion also. But the decision ultimately is probably left up to individual rabbis, and so it is probably handled differently at different times in different places.
 

Dena

Active Member
The thing is, the non-Jewish spouse might simply not have the faith to convert, perhaps they are Agnostic?

My husband defines himself as atheist but I think over time he's learning there is more then one way to view God. He's only ever known the very Christian concept of God and nothing else.

Of course, what I meet at Reform services are affiliated Jews, I won't meet couples who are at odds because the spouse has a different faith and there's no agreement on how to raise the children, which usually results in them being raised 'both' or nothing at all. Worse still is the state of secular Jews who are not affiliated at all, with any branch, and their numbers are not trivial.

From my own culture, I know that a non-Jewish husband isn't nearly as big a problem as a non-Jewish wife. If the woman is Jewish the children will be Jewish no matter what. A non-Jewish woman who isn't converting... a much bigger issue.

One of my husband's friends is Jewish and his wife is Catholic. She is raising their daughter Catholic. Actually just last night she was explaining to my husband how Rabbi W. wouldn't accept their marriage and wasn't happy about her refusing to convert. I guess she wasn't particularly pleased with him. But obviously we can see why he was concerned.
 
Last edited:

Dena

Active Member
However, when it comes to converts already married to non-Jewish spouses, I don't believe the movement has a single firm policy in place. My guess is that officially, the movement would discourage such conversions without some evidence that the other spouse is at least considering conversion also. But the decision ultimately is probably left up to individual rabbis, and so it is probably handled differently at different times in different places.

I think it is also a little different when working with a couple who has two faiths. If my husband were Christian I doubt the Conservative Rabbi would have been willing to work with me. Being that he has no faith and is open to raising our children with mine, it's a little easier. I would think anyway?

Oh and thank you for the words of encouragement. I appreciate it.

David, how are things going for you?
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
Intermarriage is frowned upon in Orthodox Judaism, some Conservatives too. It's partially a matter of religious, ethnic, and cultural pride and identity. However, it's ironic because according to some articles I have read, Judaism spread throughout the ancient world because Jewish men would marry foreign women and then convert them. But nontheless, as others have said, intermarriage is an issue in the Jewish communities throughout the world.

As for my family's sect (Conservative), most people seem to have an issue w/ intermarriage, including my father =/
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
In my Israeli secular environment, some of my friends have married Austrian, Chinese, Russian, and German spouses. I can tell you that many in the secular public are very dissatisfied (thats an understatement) with the religious monopoly on the marriage institution in Israel which effects various of elements, from the hardships that intermarried couples have to go through, to the desire by non religious Israelis to marry without an exauhsting dogmatic baggage that not only doesn't resonates with them but is a liability.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
I think it is also a little different when working with a couple who has two faiths. If my husband were Christian I doubt the Conservative Rabbi would have been willing to work with me. Being that he has no faith and is open to raising our children with mine, it's a little easier. I would think anyway?

That's the same boat I'm in; while my wife doesn't want to convert to Judaism, she doesn't have a religion of her own because she's agnostic. Our kids will be raised in my religion.
 

Dena

Active Member
That's the same boat I'm in; while my wife doesn't want to convert to Judaism, she doesn't have a religion of her own because she's agnostic. Our kids will be raised in my religion.

I wasn't going to ask because I thought it was too nosy but since you brought it up I guess I will. Do you plan to convert your children as well? That is what we planned to do if we had a child before I compete my conversion.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
hi :) i might be wrong. so forgive me if i make no sense. i've heard that child would be Jewish if his mother was Jewish. is that true? if yes, then why would it matter if she was married to a non-Jewish person or not? and would marrying a Jewish lady would be more important than marrying a Jewish man? i mean, would it be considered as a greater mistake or loss? (sorry, i couldn't find a better way to ask the question.)

thank you

.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
I wasn't going to ask because I thought it was too nosy but since you brought it up I guess I will. Do you plan to convert your children as well? That is what we planned to do if we had a child before I compete my conversion.

My youngest two (6 and 7), yes.

My oldest two (14 and 12) I believe would have to choose for themselves.

From what I understand, once a child who has converted is old enough, it is their decision whether or not to continue as a Jew. My oldest two, I believe, are past that point (or will be by the time everything is said and done).
This way, all four will eventually make the decision for themselves.
 
Last edited:

Levite

Higher and Higher
hi. i might be wrong. so forgive me if i make no sense. i've heard that child would be Jewish if his mother was Jewish. is that true? if yes, then why would it matter if she was married to a non-Jewish person or not? and would marrying a Jewish lady would be more important than marrying a Jewish man? i mean, would it be considered as a greater mistake or loss? (sorry, i couldn't find a better way to ask the question.)

It's a good question. Yes, traditionally Judaism is matrilineal (i.e., you're Jewish if your mother was Jewish), and that holds true regardless of whether the father is Jewish.

Nonetheless, the simple answer is that Jews of both genders are commanded not to marry non-Jews. So they should not do so.

But from a more practical and less absolute point of view, I think that what I would want to say is that it certainly creates fewer problems for the community and for the family of the intermarried person if it is a Jewish woman marrying a non-Jewish man. This limits the problem to a specific issue of one Jewish person transgressing the law about not marrying non-Jews, and somewhat lessens the effect that this will have on the community. When a Jewish man marries a non-Jewish woman, they must be careful to have the children converted to Judaism at birth, or else the children will have to convert at adulthood if they grow up and wish to be affiliated with the Jewish community at all.

But regardless of the problem of ensuring that the children are Jewish, any intermarriage is problematic in that it has a demoralizing effect on the community at large, but also in that it tends to encourage other transgressions. After all, if a Jew goes to his Christian in-laws for Christmas, might he not decide that, in the interest of family unity and harmony, he should eat some of their Christmas ham? Or if a Jew goes to her Christian in-laws for Easter, might she not decide that, in the interest of fitting in, she ought to go to mass with them, take communion with them, etc.? What if the Jew marries a Hindu? Would it not please his in-laws if his children helped the pandit with the ritual "feeding" of the statues of the devas? Or what if the Christian spouse was amenable to the children going to Hebrew school, but also wished them to attend a church's Sunday school? And so on....

On top of this, intermarriage (especially when the non-Jewish spouse is actually an adherent of another religion-- this phenomenon is somewhat mitigated and alleviated when the non-Jewish spouse has no religious beliefs) does no favors for the children. It creates confusion, disharmony, and inevitably results in kids that do not get adequately Jewishly educated, and are often incompletely acculturated and spiritually entwined with Judaism. Kids need a strong Jewish example from both parents. They need to hear the same thing from both parents, not mixed messages about religious beliefs and values. And they need a consistency in ritual observance in the home.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
If you're asking for the traditional Jewish view, I would say that it is probably that whether one converts or not, intermarriage is prohibited, and if one converts and one's spouse refuses, that presents a serious problem of conflicting obligations that, unfortunately, has very little flexibility under the halakhah.

But if you're asking what I personally think...I think this is a little different. I mean, I certainly think that it's preferable for the whole family to convert together. And I would wish ideally that at least the children could be brought up Jewish.

But I also understand that this is a particularly difficult situation, in that when one got married, there was no obligation not to marry a non-Jew. And a person can be drawn to become a Jew, and yet their partner may not, and while the law in a pure and ideal form may say that a person in such a position must choose, real life simply isn't that clear cut and easy. Human feelings aren't that simple.

What would I advise such a person? I don't know. I am not sure there is any kind of easy solution to the situation. Obviously, it's not reasonable to expect someone-- especially someone who's just coming to a new way of dealing with life and God and self and spirituality-- to break apart their family. It just can't be done. And yet it can't be denied that such a person does leave themselves in a difficult position with the tradition.

I guess what I would hope, realistically, is that such a person would try to do the best they can balancing their obligations, and their heart. I would hope that their Jewish community would be sympathetic and understanding and welcoming. This actually is the one kind of situation where I do think that probably the best solution for the community is to be welcoming to the entire family, and to treat them all warmly, and at worst, make a hard situation easier; and at best, perhaps in doing so, the rest of the family may, over time, feel inclined to follow the one converting, and give an ideal solution to the conflict.

But, in contrast to the Jew who, indifferent to tradition and law, flagrantly intermarries, the convert whose family are not (yet) interested in converting is someone I do have sympathy for, and to whom I don't see any guilt or blame attached. It is an incredibly hard situation to be in, and I could only hope it could be made easier. Being a Jew By Choice (the current preferred term for 'convert' in liberal Judaism) is an incredibly courageous and admirable decision. Doing so with so many challenges, in the face of so much potential for hurt and grief, to my mind makes it all the more admirable and courageous. The fact that, from the community and tradition's point of view, the situation is still...unfortunate...changes nothing, I think.

Thank you for the reply.

I hoping my wife will eventually decide to. She's asking more and more questions, and is trying hard to help me. She even surprised me with a Challah last Friday (and I know it takes much more than that, but she did think about it :) ).
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
I hoping my wife will eventually decide to. She's asking more and more questions, and is trying hard to help me. She even surprised me with a Challah last Friday (and I know it takes much more than that, but she did think about it ).

Are you kidding? That's awesome! That's not to be sneezed at. At worst, it sounds like your wife is open-minded and supportive and generous. At best, that she is thinking that this could be something you could do together. That sounds great.

I'm really glad that you have such a partner.
 

Dena

Active Member
My Rabbi will be picking out a mentor for both of us so she's trying to find someone who shares some of my husbands interest. I like that the mentor isn't just for me but for him too.
 
Top