Jewish zombies

[VoidCat]

Most movies portray zombies as eating brains and are unintelligent. But let's say they end up being intelligent. Intelligent enough to understand religion. And still eat brains. Would a Jewish zombie have to obey kosher laws? What if they have to eat brains in order to survive and not cease to exist? Kinda like a disability. Would they be considered living by Jews thus be allowed brains which aren't kosher? Or would the fact they undead and not exactly living make all this a moot point?

It's a silly question but it popped up in a conversation i had with a friend of mine who is Jewish. Thought it'd be a fun thread. And im honestly curious on what the answer is.

 

[Jedster]

I am pretty sure that brains are kosher.
If not, they would be allowed to eat them in order to survive, just like pig-meat.
Undead would be a moot point, imo.

Here's a short video about a Jewish Vampire(comedy btw)

For those who need subtitles here is what he says

Spoiler: the vampire says

Oy, have you got the wrongvampire

 

[rosends]

If to eat them, another person would have to dies you introduce other religious problems. Even if human flesh could be consumed, you cannot kill someone else to get that flesh.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

For a zombie to be Jewish, the mother would have to be Jewish, it is not a choice made by the intellect, and so the question arises, do zombies have mothers? Iow, are zombies capable of sexual reproduction, and if so, were they created by God in the line of Abraham, for if not, even then they still could not be Jewish. If you say yes, there are possible zombies created in the lines of Abraham, that is antisemitic, Jews are not zombies.

 

[dybmh]

Do Zombie's have souls? Can they be Jewish?

 

[VoidCat]

If to eat them, another person would have to dies you introduce other religious problems. Even if human flesh could be consumed, you cannot kill someone else to get that flesh.

Good point.

 

[VoidCat]

Do Zombie's have souls? Can they be Jewish?

Hmm...no clue to the first one. Probably not to the second.

Honestly would depend on what the zombie would be like...most in movies are unintelligent...i could see someone being creative and making up one in a book or movie that don't eat brains or are intelligent...but that would be tricky and break what is expected to happen in the movie/book.

 

[VoidCat]

For a zombie to be Jewish, the mother would have to be Jewish, it is not a choice made by the intellect, and so the question arises, do zombies have mothers? Iow, are zombies capable of sexual reproduction, and if so, were they created by God in the line of Abraham, for if not, even then they still could not be Jewish. If you say yes, there are possible zombies created in the lines of Abraham, that is antisemitic, Jews are not zombies.

There are Jewish converts in Judaism...also if a zombie was Jewish before they died and became undead maybe they would want to continue said religion?

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Would a Jewish zombie have to obey kosher laws?

I would say "no" -- a Jewish zombie would not have to obey kosher laws. Zombies are technically dead, even if re-animated into something that resembles life -- or being "undead" so to speak.

The dead are not guilty of transgressing the commandments. As it is written in the Talmud: "When a person dies he then becomes free of Torah and mitzvot." (Shabbat 30a)

I would imagine that the same rules would apply to a golem (an animated, anthropomorphic being in Jewish folklore).

 

[VoidCat]

If to eat them, another person would have to dies you introduce other religious problems. Even if human flesh could be consumed, you cannot kill someone else to get that flesh.

That is something i did think about before making said thread.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's a silly question but it popped up in a conversation i had with a friend of mine who is Jewish. Thought it'd be a fun thread.

 

[VoidCat]

Can they be Jewish

I would say "no" -- a Jewish zombie would not have to obey kosher laws. Zombies are technically dead, even if re-animated into something that resembles life -- or being "undead" so to speak.

The dead are not guilty of transgressing the commandments. As it is written in the Talmud: "When a person dies he then becomes free of Torah and mitzvot." (Shabbat 30a)

I would imagine that the same rules would apply to a golem (an animated, anthropomorphic being in Jewish folklore).

What's your thoughts Rachel? Could they even be Jewish based on this?

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

What's your thoughts Rachel? Could they even be Jewish based on this?

I'm not a rabbi, but I think so. It's been said many times: "Once Jewish, always Jewish." If Jews stopped being Jews in death, then we wouldn't be concerned about being buried in Jewish cemeteries.

This is a fun, speculative thread! I love Jewish sci-fi and fantasy stories, and can recommend a lot of cool anthologies of them.

 

[VoidCat]

Thanks for the thought. Look nobody got to be serious when thinking of questions...


My friend and I weren't even being serious when the question came up. I was joking about him waking up from sleep and being a zombie cuz he just woke up then the question popped in my mind.

I'm not a rabbi, but I think so. It's been said many times: "Once Jewish, always Jewish." If Jews stopped being Jews in death, then we wouldn't be concerned about being buried in Jewish cemeteries.

This is a fun, speculative thread! I love Jewish sci-fi and fantasy stories, and can recommend a lot of cool anthologies of them.

Im glad you like the thread. Im reminded of the moral instruments series...there was a vamp that was jewish in it and thus was no longer able to use any items associated with his faith.

 

[VoidCat]

Zombie's have souls

There was a concept in a book i read a fictional book at that. The zombies came to be undead after dying of illness. At first they'd be hardly reanimated but the more love they were shown the more alive they got and the more they were able to move and think. I reckon in that book they'd start with no soul but the more love they got the more of a soul they ended up with.

 

[rosends]

Just a side note - part of this would hinge o. The mechanism of "zombiehood." is there any of the person in there or is the body being animated by a separate entiry/entities?

If I can figure out how, I will try to present a link to a story my father A"H wrote on this particular topic in Jewish law.

 

[VoidCat]

There was a concept in a book i read a fictional book at that. The zombies came to be undead after dying of illness. At first they'd be hardly reanimated but the more love they were shown the more alive they got and the more they were able to move and think. I reckon in that book they'd start with no soul but the more love they got the more of a soul they ended up with.

I found the book! It's been years since i read it I done forgot the title. I should reread it sometime. It's call Generation Dead

Generation Dead - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit: it's a series! I did not know that

 

[RabbiO]

At this time of the year, and with no disrespect intended, the least likely subjects for my introspection are the possible ethical and dietary dilemmas of a zombie who may, or may not, be Jewish.

However, if a zombie wishes to call the office and make an appointment……. Of course, if the zombie is seeking an Orthodox perspective I will have to refer the zombie out to @rosends

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Speaking of what the Jewish undead theoretically can and cannot do... Here's an excerpt (in the following blue text) from one of my favorite, humorous short stories by the late, great science fiction writer Harlan Ellison, titled "I'm Looking for Kadak."

To briefly set the scene, an alien race of Jews (yes, they are Jewish aliens -- you'd have to read the story to find out how that happened), are about to sit shivah for the impending death of their planet. There are at least ten Jews remaining on the planet for the purpose (the rest have fled to an alternate planet of safety) -- but one of this minyan, named Snodle, has suddenly died.

Although Snodle is now technically dead, he can still speak and interact with his fellow, remaining, nine Jews. He just can't be part of the minyan anymore. This presents a dilemma.

So where would we get a tenth man for the minyan?

There were only nine Jews on the whole planet.

Then Snodle said, "There's always Kadak."

"Shut up, you're dead," Reb Jeshaia said, but it didn't do any good. Snodle kept suggesting Kadak.

You should understand, one of the drawbacks of my species, which maybe a butterfly wouldn't know, is that when we die, and pass on, there's still talking. Nuhdzhing. Oh. You want to know how that can be. How a dead Jew can talk, through the veil, from the other side. What am I, a science authority, I should know how that works? I wouldn't lie on you: I don't know. Always it's been the same. One of us seizes up and dies, and the body squats there and doesn't decay the way the tourists' do when they get shikker in a blind pig bar in downtown Houmitz and stagger out in the gutter and get knocked over by a tumbrel on the way to the casinos.

But the voice starts up. Nuhdzhing!

It probably has something to do with the soul, but I wouldn't put a bet on that; all I can say is thank God we don't worship ancestors here on Zsouchmuhn, because we'd have such a sky full of nuhdzhing old farts telling us how to run our lives, it wouldn't be worth it to keep on this side of the veil. Bless the name of Abraham, after a while they shut up and go off somewhere.

You can read this story in this anthology: Wandering Stars: An Anthology of Jewish Fantasy and Science Fiction

Quoted from link: "Wandering Stars is the landmark collection of Jewish science fiction and fantasy. The first of its kind, it is an established and enduring classic. This is the first time in a science fiction collection that the Jewish People―and the richness of their themes and particular points of view―appear without a mask. Wandering Stars is a showpiece of Jewish wit, culture, and lore, of the blend of humor and sadness, cynicism, and faith. In these pages you’ll find superlative tales of fantasy and science fiction by masters."

I'm tagging @rosends on this, as he might be interested in this anthology for his high school students.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

I am pretty sure that brains are kosher.
If not, they would be allowed to eat them in order to survive, just like pig-meat.
Undead would be a moot point, imo.

Here's a short video about a Jewish Vampire(comedy btw)

For those who need subtitles here is what he says

Spoiler: the vampire says

Oy, have you got the wrongvampire

That scene is from the comedic horror movie The Fearless Vampire Killers (1967), and the actor playing the Jewish vampire was a popular British film actor in his time named Alfie Bass. His birth name was Abraham Basalinsky -- so not only was that vampire Jewish, but the actor who portrayed him was Jewish, too. No wonder he delivered that line ("You've got the wrong vampire!") so convincingly!

P.S. Human brains aren't kosher. Nor is any other human flesh.