^ disingenuous crap and even then you were able to conjure up "only one". I'm done.
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Jews: "Discovering The Jewish Jesus"
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
Martin Buber (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)
BEN-CHORIN, SCHALOM (en-academic.com)
again, noted Jewish scholars, teachers.
BEN-CHORIN, SCHALOM (en-academic.com)
again, noted Jewish scholars, teachers.
Good cop-out
@pearl What @rosends and @Jayhawker Soule are trying to say is that not every learned Jew is a rabbi. At least as far back as the Mishnaic era, it normally refers to ordained Jews. There's some debate in the epigraphical world on the so-called "epigraphical rabbis", people whose names appear in ancient inscriptions and have the title rabbi conferred upon them, but with regards to religious and legal leadership in the Jewish nation, we are talking about specially ordained individuals. Perhaps you've come across here or elsewhere debates on whether Jesus was a rabbi. These debates stem from Christian sources referring to him as a rabbi, whilst Jews are skeptical whether he was ever ordained.
Similarly, this Pinchas Lapide. A search online shows that missionary sites refer to him as a rabbi, but when he was actually interviewed, he was referred to as a theologian. This does not make him a rabbi.
It is therefore considered disingenuous by many Jews to refer to someone who is not a rabbi as a rabbi. And missionaries are well aware of the psychological power in introducing Jews to a rabbi who believes in Jesus.
Similarly, this Pinchas Lapide. A search online shows that missionary sites refer to him as a rabbi, but when he was actually interviewed, he was referred to as a theologian. This does not make him a rabbi.
It is therefore considered disingenuous by many Jews to refer to someone who is not a rabbi as a rabbi. And missionaries are well aware of the psychological power in introducing Jews to a rabbi who believes in Jesus.
Yes, I quite agree.
None of those I stated believe 'in' Jesus. Any reference to 'rabbi' is from either themselves or publishers of their work. Best left as noted Jewish scholars. The authors I mentioned should not be confused with the 'Jews for Jesus' crowd as none believe Him to be the messiah of the Jews.
It was a generalized statement. I didn't want to extend my post too much.
It was not my intention to mix any of these. I simply pointed out that we were unable to find any evidence that Lapide was, in fact, a rabbi. If you have any evidence, by all means, I'd be happy to see it. That is the crux of @rosends and @Jayhawker Soule's questioning of his rabbinical identity.
You may have a 'list' of ordained rabbis, I have found the title is used among progressive Jewish scholars as well. For me all that is much beside the point which is the interpretation of NT from Jewish exegetes. Admittedly, maybe nothing for Jews to be interested in, but for Christians it should be of great value.
I think it is more like they have come to full circle in their faith. I think that atheist Jews have rejected Judaism IMV.
rosends
Well-Known Member
Then you don't understand Judaism.
Or some Jewish people don't understand Jewish Jesus?
rosends
Well-Known Member
More likely that Christians don't understand why that is an impossibility so they invent ideas to shoehorn what they need to find into a system which is very clearly aware of its own rules and theology.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
This Rabbi Schneider claims that both of his parents were Jews, and that he grew up in a Jewish neighborhood. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and accept that he is halakhically Jewish on the grounds that he was born of a jewish mother. He certainly does not now practice Judaism. He is a Christian. I don't know what his claim is to being a Rabbi. I seriously doubt he has Jewish semikha (leaning of hands/ordination) but that his training is in Christianity, making him a pastor, not a rabbi.
At any rate, he is considered by Jews to be a Jewish Apostate, meaning a Jew that has abandoned the covenant for another religion. That would make him technically still a Jew, but he has lost all his rights as a Jew. For example, he may not testify in a Jewish court of law, nor may he be buried in a Jewish cemetery.
Jewish Christians do exist, but they are pretty rare. If you go into a Messianic Judaism congregation, you will find that almost everyone there is a non-Jew.
Remember that being a Jew means you are part of a PEOPLE. Some Jews practice Judaism. Many are secular. Some are even atheists. A few are apostates. A Jew cannot "un-Jew" themselves.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
In a word, yes.