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Jews in the Qur'an.

M

MayPeaceBeUpOnYou

Active Member
Bharat Jhunjhunwala said:
The question is what is the central pillar of quran. I think it is submission to allah or god. What is wrong with that?
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The belief in the one true god is the general message but with that goes accepting gods revelation id it’s been shared with you. But like I said before there is no comparison in religion, this is what god had told us in the Quran.
So the refrence that was given by Steve is not saying what he is implying. Because that would go against god word. Sharing the message is what the prophet did.
 
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stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
MayPeaceBeUpOnYou said:
Now give your evidence it wasn’t voluntary. Like I said before, your reference doesn’t say it is compulsory?
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Okay. I'm sure you're familiar with verse 9:29

Sahih International: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
MayPeaceBeUpOnYou said:
Like I said before, your reference doesn’t say it is compulsory?
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How many times do I have to agree with you that 2:41 does not say it's compulsory? All I have said about that verse is that Mohamed (via the Qur'an) tells Jews that it is expected of them to believe in the Qur'an as well as previous revelations.

The command to "believe in that which I reveal" is repeated many times, and when the Jews refused, they were cursed. As soon as Mohamed gained the military strength to back up his demands, he purged Yathrib of Jews in only five years. The hatred that the Qur'an directs towards Jews is as obvious as it is ubiquitous.
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
MayPeaceBeUpOnYou said:
Where is this?
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Versses 2:83-88 revisit past and current sins of the Jews in extremely bitter and accusatory terms, along with more fire and brimstone warnings for those who deny the Qur'an - "After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes and assist (Their enemies) against them ... Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest [the Qur'an]? ... but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life? ... and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty ... These are the people who buy the life of this world at the price of the Hereafter: their penalty shall not be lightened nor shall they be helped ... And when there comes to them a Book from Allah [the Qur'an], confirming what is with them, they refuse to believe in it, but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith. Allah has cursed them for their unbelief".

There are more as I am sure you already know.

MayPeaceBeUpOnYou said:
so he punished them because they didn’t accept Islam?
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Yes, read the above quote closely. I could give you more.
 
M

MayPeaceBeUpOnYou

Active Member
stevecanuck said:
Versses 2:83-88 revisit past and current sins of the Jews in extremely bitter and accusatory terms, along with more fire and brimstone warnings for those who deny the Qur'an - "After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes and assist (Their enemies) against them ... Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest [the Qur'an]? ... but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life? ... and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty ... These are the people who buy the life
stevecanuck said:
Yes, read the above quote closely. I could give you more
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lol, nice try but please stick to the topic. We are not talking about God punishing those who reject him.
Your claim was that the prophet punished them because they rejected his message?
stevecanuck said:
of this world at the price of the Hereafter: their penalty shall not be lightened nor shall they be helped ... And when there comes to them a Book from Allah [the Qur'an], confirming what is with them, they refuse to believe in it, but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith. Allah has cursed them for their unbelief"
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Sorry I don’t read them being cursed,
Only that some Jews did committed transgession.
Maybe you can tell me what you mean by cursed
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
MayPeaceBeUpOnYou said:
lol, nice try but please stick to the topic. We are not talking about God punishing those who reject him.
Your claim was that the prophet punished them because they rejected his message?

Sorry I don’t read them being cursed,
Only that some Jews did committed transgession.
Maybe you can tell me what you mean by cursed
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I'm sorry, but you'll have to lead somebody else in circles.

The Qur'an repeatedly says that people must beleive in it. Many times. The 'transgression' they committed was to not accept the Qur'an. If you don't see that, then I really don't care.
 
M

MayPeaceBeUpOnYou

Active Member
stevecanuck said:
I'm sorry, but you'll have to lead somebody else in circles.

The Qur'an repeatedly says that people must beleive in it. Many times. The 'transgression' they committed was to not accept the Qur'an. If you don't see that, then I really don't care.
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Serieus? Transgression against god yes. Them rejecting the Quran isn’t a justice reason to kill them.

First you claim that the prophet killed the Jews because they rejected the Quran, which is false and still waiting for evidence for that

Secondly, you come with a verse that’s only saying that the prophet wanted them to accept the message. and nowhere in the Quran is god commanding the prophet to kill the Jews because they rejected the Quran. You are pulling verses out of context.

Since you are struggling, what does the Quran and the Hadith tell us why the prophet attacked the Jews after a couple years?

Third you
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
MayPeaceBeUpOnYou said:
First you claim that the prophet killed the Jews because they rejected the Quran, which is false and still waiting for evidence for that

Secondly, you come with a verse that’s only saying that the prophet wanted them to accept the message. and nowhere in the Quran is god commanding the prophet to kill the Jews because they rejected the Quran. You are pulling verses out of context.
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I gave you verse 9:29 and you ignored it.

I've been through this predictable exercise with others and I'm in no mood to repeat it with you. If I tell you to look up what happened to the Banu Quraiza, you'll just say they had it coming because they 'committed treason'.

Admit that Mohamed ethnically cleansed Yathrib of Jews or talk to yourself.
 
M

MayPeaceBeUpOnYou

Active Member
stevecanuck said:
I gave you verse 9:29 and you ignored it.
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No i did answer but you already made up your mind. It’s very clear you ignore the fact that from the start of the chapter it’s talking about people who are breaking treaties and you ignore that fact.
You already talking to already to other Muslims about his shows to me that you are not open for context of the text which is quite clear if you read from the start of the chapter.

stevecanuck said:
ve been through this predictable exercise with others and I'm in no mood to repeat it with you. If I tell you to look up what happened to the Banu Quraiza, you'll just say they had it coming because they 'committed treason'.
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Right and we have evidence that this was the reason why it happend you might not agree with that but that’s your problem.

You know which other people like you that don’t want to read things in context are people who do evil things in the name of religion .



stevecanuck said:
dmit that Mohamed ethnically cleansed Yathrib of Jews or talk to yourself.
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No I don’t because I can proof that Islam teaches peace towards those who have other beliefs. This changes when they commit treason or breaking the law of the land. So it’s seems like you don’t have anything to stand on, maybe best to research it yourself rather going to Islamophobic websites
 
muhammad_isa

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
stevecanuck said:
If you want to change the subject from what the Qur'an says to events on the ground..
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Not at all .. it just shows that these Muslims did not agree with your interpretation..
..and nor do I.

You merely pick out a verse here and there that appears to suit your agenda, and then act as if you know everything.
..when you quite obviously don't.
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
In his tafsir of surah 9, Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi (https://www.englishtafsir.com/Quran/9/index.html), summarizes "the problems that were confronting the [Islamic] Community at that time" thus:

- to make the whole of Arabia a perfect Dar-ul-Islam [abode of Islam],
- to extend the influence of Islam to the adjoining countries,
- to crush the mischief of the hypocrites, and
- to prepare the Muslims for Jihad against the non- Muslim world.

In order to enable the Muslims to extend the influence of Islam outside Arabia, they were enjoined to crush with sword the non- Muslim powers and to force them to accept the sovereignty of the Islamic State. As the great Roman and Iranian Empires were the biggest hindrances in the way, a conflict with them was inevitable. The object of Jihad was not to coerce them to accept Islam they were free to accept or not to accept it-but to prevent them from thrusting forcibly their deviations [non-Islamic religions] upon others and the coming generations. The Muslims were enjoined to tolerate their misguidance only to the extent that they might have the freedom to remain misguided, if they chose to be so, provided that they paid Jizyah (v. 29) as a sign of their subjugation to the Islamic State.

In order to prepare the Muslims for Jihad against the whole non-Muslim world, it was necessary to cure them even of that slight weakness of faith from which they were still suffering. For there could be no greater internal danger to the Islamic Community than the weakness of faith, especially where it was going to engage itself single-handed in a conflict with the whole non-Muslim world. That is why those people who had lagged behind in the Campaign to Tabuk or had shown the least negligence were severely taken to task, and were considered hypocrites if they had no plausible excuse for not fulfilling that obligation. Moreover, a clear declaration was made that in future the sole criterion of a Muslim's faith shall be the exertions he makes for the uplift of the Word of Allah and the role he plays in the conflict between Islam and kufr. Therefore, if anyone will show any hesitation in sacrificing his life, money, time and energies, his faith shall not be regarded as genuine. This is a reference to verses 9:81-96.
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stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
muhammad_isa said:
What choice are we left with, if the 'non-Muslim world' plots against the Muslims
and oppresses them?
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Please stop embarassing yourself. Muslim armies tried to conquer as much of the world as they could. Why else were they in places like France? Crack a book.

But, more than that, please take your absurd, transparent, laughable propaganda elsewhere.
 
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