Jews in the Qur'an.

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62)

As for those who have not fought against you for your religion, nor expelled you from your homes, God does not prohibit you from dealing with them kindly and equitably. God loves the equitable. (Quran 60:8)

Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood.1 So whoever renounces false gods and believes in Allah has certainly grasped the firmest, unfailing hand-hold. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.(Quran 2:256

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul1 or for corruption [done] in the land2 - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one3 - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And Our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors. (5:32)

There is no verse in the quran that Jews should be slaughtered because of their faith. To ignore this and use isolated verses is not fair.
To imply anything else Burden of proof rest on their shoulder.
Sources tell us the Jews had their own tradition and culture under the Islamic rule. There are multiple evidences, also confirmed by secular historians to back this up. Not saying bad things happens but that’s just exception of the rule.
Last point I will make is that if the Quran teaches that Jews should be killed then why are there still jews living under Islamic rule after 1400 years. It’s clear that the Jews are the people of the book and if they don’t break any laws they could live peacefully, like for example the golden age of the Jews in Spain.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs

Agree. But what happens when different messengers come with different messages?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Agree. But what happens when different messengers come with different messages?

These are false messengers since there will come no messenger after prophet Muhammed

 

[stevecanuck]

Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62)

Read that again very carefully noting the phrase I highlighted. The Qur'an says several times that there are indeed Christians and Jews who "believe in that which I reveal", which of course means all scripture including the Qur'an. In other words, this refers only to those 'People of the Book' who have converted to islam.

As for those who have not fought against you for your religion, nor expelled you from your homes, God does not prohibit you from dealing with them kindly and equitably. God loves the equitable. (Quran 60:8)

This is one of the few verses that can be taken to call for peace. One of the very few. However, if you look more closely, it's possible that fighting against the Muslims "for your religion" refers to those who decline Mohamed's 'invitation to Islam', and are therefore attacked.

Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood.1 So whoever renounces false gods and believes in Allah has certainly grasped the firmest, unfailing hand-hold. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.(Quran 2:256).

This is everybody's favorite purposely misinterpreted verse. If you look at the surrounding verses you'll see this has nothing to do with whether or not Muslims should force Islam on people. It's simply Allah saying, yet again, that his 'signs' are so clear that people will come to Islam voluntarily. If the don't, just read 9:29 for further instruction.

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul1 or for corruption [done] in the land2 - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one3 - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And Our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors. (5:32)

I have yet to see an Islamoapologist follow 5:32 with 5:33 - and for good reason. It changes the interpretation that you're trying to slip past us by a mere 180 degrees:

"The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified ...."

The next time you try to fool people about what the Qur'an says, you should pick someone who hasn't spent the last 2+ decades reading it.

 

[stevecanuck]

There is no verse in the quran that Jews should be slaughtered because of their faith.

Yes there is, and you know it.

Verse 9:29 very clearly says to fight Jews and Christians until they surrender.
Verse 5:33 says to fight those who cause corruption, which is repeatedly defined as anything unIslamic.

Again, you know this.

To ignore this and use isolated verses is not fair.

Oh, you have GOT to be kidding. "Isolated verses"?????? What hypocrasy. Just read your post again for "isolated verses".

To imply anything else Burden of proof rest on their shoulder.
Sources tell us the Jews had their own tradition and culture under the Islamic rule. There are multiple evidences, also confirmed by secular historians to back this up. Not saying bad things happens but that’s just exception of the rule. Last point I will make is that if the Quran teaches that Jews should be killed then why are there still jews living under Islamic rule after 1400 years.

More sophistry and misdirection. Verse 9:29 describes the jizya.

And you know it.

 

[stevecanuck]

Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62)

As for those who have not fought against you for your religion, nor expelled you from your homes, God does not prohibit you from dealing with them kindly and equitably. God loves the equitable. (Quran 60:8)

Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood.1 So whoever renounces false gods and believes in Allah has certainly grasped the firmest, unfailing hand-hold. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.(Quran 2:256

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul1 or for corruption [done] in the land2 - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one3 - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And Our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors. (5:32)

There is no verse in the quran that Jews should be slaughtered because of their faith. To ignore this and use isolated verses is not fair.
To imply anything else Burden of proof rest on their shoulder.
Sources tell us the Jews had their own tradition and culture under the Islamic rule. There are multiple evidences, also confirmed by secular historians to back this up. Not saying bad things happens but that’s just exception of the rule.
Last point I will make is that if the Quran teaches that Jews should be killed then why are there still jews living under Islamic rule after 1400 years. It’s clear that the Jews are the people of the book and if they don’t break any laws they could live peacefully, like for example the golden age of the Jews in Spain.

Btw, there are times when I quote verses from the Qur'an and the auto-naysayers say "But, but, but ....... OUT OF CONTEXT!!", or "Oh yeah, well ...... CHERRY PICKING!!"

So, the fact that you just provided cherry picked quotes minus context hereby precludes you from ever joining that chorus.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Read that again very carefully noting the phrase I highlighted. The Qur'an says several times that there are indeed Christians and Jews who "believe in that which I reveal", which of course means all scripture including the Qur'an. In other words, this refers only to those 'People of the Book' who have converted to islam

This gives you a better understanding of the verse.

This is one of the few verses that can be taken to call for peace. One of the very few. However, if you look more closely, it's possible that fighting against the Muslims "for your religion" refers to those who decline Mohamed's 'invitation to Islam', and are therefore attacked.

No it’s not, it telling that if you are being attacked because of your religion, you have a right to defend yourself.
And there are more verses that’s speaks about peace. You could know that if you have read the whole thing.

have yet to see an Islamoapologist follow 5:32 with 5:33 - and for good reason. It changes the interpretation that you're trying to slip past us by a mere 180 degrees:

"The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified ....

What exactly is wrong with these 2 verses? It’s pretty clear and I don’t run from any verse from the Quran.

That is why We ordained for the Children of Israel that whoever takes a life—unless as a punishment for murder or mischief in the land—it will be as if they killed all of humanity; and whoever saves a life, it will be as if they saved all of humanity.1 ˹Although˺ Our messengers already came to them with clear proofs, many of them still transgressed afterwards through the land..(5-32)

Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and spread mischief in the land is death, crucifixion, cutting off their hands and feet on opposite sides, or exile from the land. This ˹penalty˺ is a disgrace for them in this world, and they will suffer a tremendous punishment in the Hereafter.(5-33)

The next time you try to fool people about what the Qur'an says, you should pick someone who hasn't spent the last 2+ decades reading it.

is there a reason why you are so emotional or offended? Is it something I have said?

 

[stevecanuck]

What exactly is wrong with these 2 verses? It’s pretty clear and I don’t run from any verse from the Quran.

What's wrong? Seriously? What's wrong is that they say to kill those who don't conform to Islam's way of thinking. THAT is what is wrong.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

What's wrong? Seriously? What's wrong is that they say to kill those who don't conform to Islam's way of thinking. THAT is what is wrong.

I have put verse 33 3 times, I corrected it, my mistake.

So the verses it’s not saying what you are saying. Please read it again and tell me for which crimes there will be a punishment?

 

[stevecanuck]

There is no verse in the quran that Jews should be slaughtered because of their faith.

You have yet to address this. I answered with the following, and you just ignored it:

Verse 9:29 very clearly says to fight Jews and Christians until they surrender.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

You have yet to address this. I answered with the following, and you just ignored it:

Verse 9:29 very clearly says to fight Jews and Christians until they surrender.

Quran 9:29

Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture,1 until they pay the tax, willingly submitting, fully humbled.

It’s clearly saying that fight those who don’t believe in Allah until they pay the Djizja, tax.
Under Islamic rule Muslims are obligated to pay Zakaat.
Where non moslims have to pay Djizja(tax), in exchange they have the right to practice their religions, protected and are exempt for fighting for the Muslims.
So in a nutshell, Jews and Christian’s are protected by Islamic shariah. We can see clearly this in history.

 

[stevecanuck]

Quran 9:29

Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture,1 until they pay the tax, willingly submitting, fully humbled.

It’s clearly saying that fight those who don’t believe in Allah until they pay the Djizja, tax.
Under Islamic rule Muslims are obligated to pay Zakaat.
Where non moslims have to pay Djizja(tax), in exchange they have the right to practice their religions, protected and are exempt for fighting for the Muslims.
So in a nutshell, Jews and Christian’s are protected by Islamic shariah. We can see clearly this in history.

Doesn't all that spinnging make you dizzy?

You have just agreed that "those who were given the scripture" are to be fought into submission and second-class citizenship, and you dare to make it sound like Muslims are dong them a favor.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Doesn't all that spinnging make you dizzy?

You have just agreed that "those who were given the scripture" are to be fought into submission and second-class citizenship, and you dare to make it sound like Muslims are dong them a favor.

Fought in to submission means if they do decide to accept Islam and if not then they have to pay jizija since that every non Muslim has to pay.

I never said Second class citizens. Can you explain?

 

[stevecanuck]

Fought in to submission means if they do decide to accept Islam and if not then they have to pay jizija since that every non Muslim has to pay.

I never said Second class citizens. Can you explain?

Your spin cycle is stuck in the 'ON' position.

Verse 9:29 tells Musllims to fight Jews and Christians until they are subdued. No amount of soft-peddling this subjugation in the form of dhimmitude and submission to Islamic law is going to change that.

 

[stevecanuck]

every non Muslim has to pay.

And this will eventually apply to the whole world, correct?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Your spin cycle is stuck in the 'ON' position.

Verse 9:29 tells Musllims to fight Jews and Christians until they are subdued. No amount of soft-pedaling this subjugation in the form of dhimmitude and submission to Islamic law is going to change that.

You are not listening. The law is Islamic shariah so every citizen has to because they are living here. If you are Muslim you have to zakaat, if you are not then you have to pay jiziya. You pay no taks you get punished, simple as that
But Tell me somewhere where you can live for free. In a society everyone has to pay in order to retain some rights. I don’t understand why this is so hard for you to get.

And this will eventually apply to the whole world, correct?

No we don’t have such beliefs

 

[stevecanuck]

You are not listening. The law is Islamic shariah so every citizen has to because they are living here. If you are Muslim you have to zakaat, if you are not then you have to pay jiziya. You pay no taks you get punished, simple as that

Absolutely correct. Non-Muslims are forced to abide by Islam's rules. You agree with everything I say, but in such a way as to make it sound like we should just do it and shut up. Are you really that clueless as to think we should happily accept dhimmitude?

But Tell me somewhere where you can live for free.

Stupid strawman.

In a society everyone has to pay in order to retain some rights. I don’t understand why this is so hard for you to get.

Stupid strawman - part 2.

You think we're so thick that you can make us believe that paying an enforced religious tax is the same as paying for everyday governance? Non-Muslims should really pay attention to people like you so that they can understand how entitled you feel to impose your religion on the rest of the world.

No we don’t have such beliefs

BS.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You think we're so thick that you can make us believe that paying an enforced religious tax is the same as paying for everyday governance?

Who's we? Disbelievers in G-d?
..and what is "everyday governance" ?

Most governments collect tax in some shape or form. Most governments have Armed Forces etc. etc.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Absolutely correct. Non-Muslims are forced to abide by Islam's rules. You agree with everything I say, but in such a way as to make it sound like we should just do it and shut up. Are you really that clueless as to think we should happily accept dhimmitude?

Oh now I see the issue, you have trouble that Muslims shouldn’t rule a country at all. Well I can give examples where Christian’s and Jews were thriving under Islamic rule. For examples the Jews in Spain, even this they had to abide by Islamic law they strived and even Jews were getting in high positions, like ninisters .look what happend when Christians took over Spain. Jews were prosecuting again and they fled to Islamic countries in North Africa. So don’t come here with you Islamophobic arguments.

A other example were the Christian Copts in Egypt. There were being oppressed under the Christians so they were happy Muslim came.

Non Muslims are allowed to practice their religion freely, they even had their own Jewish court .

You think we're so thick that you can make us believe that paying an enforced religious tax is the same as paying for everyday governance? Non-Muslims should really pay attention to people like you so that they can understand how entitled you feel to impose your religion on the rest of the world.

I don’t know what you are on but there is no compulsion in religion in Islam. .

BS

Yeah i figured that

 

[stevecanuck]

Most governments collect tax in some shape or form. Most governments have Armed Forces etc. etc.

Only a shameless propagandist would try to sell the idea that a protection 'tax' imposed on conquered people of an 'inferior' religion is just like any other tax.

When the Mafia does this it's called 'the protection racket'.