Job Finding Woes?

[BHSU_Student]

So I was a student that just graduated with a B.S. in Psychology (minor in Biology). Graduated Cum Laude, 3.6 GPA, blah blah. I was going to pursue a masters in occupational therapy, but decided to take a year off to see what the current job market was like. Also, I found out that it was going to cost me 70k-120k just for a masters degree in OT, which doesn't make sense, since the entry level wage is 40k-50k.

So, from the looks of it, there is an antagonistic relationship between new grads and employers. Employers prefer experience over education. A diploma is not highly valued during a "recession."

Government officials have said throughout the recession that we were on our way to recovery, and that job growth is expected to increase. However, it appears that the reality of our situation is much more grim (not to sound pessimistic). Noam Chomsky stated (I think one to two years ago) that the government has been reporting false statistics and that unemployment is at depression levels. I personally, just started my job search on the 9th, and can no longer continue my search because of a nation-wide hiring freeze affecting the government. I considered Federal employment my only serious career option, since I am a veteran and have worked for a government agency. I guess at a time like this, the only options are places like the Gap, McDonald's, Starbuck's, or Verizon?

Is there anyone on RF that can verify this? I had strong hopes and refused to take a "doom and gloom" perspective while in school, but I thought the U.S. was on a stronger track to recovery.

Well, I always had this spiritual calling to travel to India... I guess those monk robes are starting to look good right about now...

 

[silvermoon383]

That's pretty much what I've found to be. For the past year and a half I've been trying to find an engineering job to use my Mechanical Engineering degree and I've found only 3 jobs that don't require prior experience. Not request, not recommend, require. And they were all entry level jobs!

It's gotten to the point where I'll most likely be going back to school to get some vocational training in the hope that I can get a blue collar job and use that to springboard into a proper engineering one.

 

[Wirey]

That's pretty much what I've found to be. For the past year and a half I've been trying to find an engineering job to use my Mechanical Engineering degree and I've found only 3 jobs that don't require prior experience. Not request, not recommend, require. And they were all entry level jobs!

It's gotten to the point where I'll most likely be going back to school to get some vocational training in the hope that I can get a blue collar job and use that to springboard into a proper engineering one.

Wait, wait... you have no experience, and they're offering you entry level jobs? Heaven forfend!

I started as an electrician and now I work as an engineer. There's a ladder involved, and climbing it requires work. And Mechanical Engineering is the industrial equivalent of taking three years of Tap. Get into Electrical or Process. Trust me.

 

[silvermoon383]

Wait, wait... you have no experience, and they're offering you entry level jobs? Heaven forfend!

I started as an electrician and now I work as an engineer. There's a ladder involved, and climbing it requires work. And Mechanical Engineering is the industrial equivalent of taking three years of Tap. Get into Electrical or Process. Trust me.

No, what I'm saying is that they're NOT offering me anything. 99% of all the ME and ME-related entry level job postings require prior experience (usually 2-5 years worth). I worked hard in college, where's my reward? I can't even get the crappy high school jobs (groceries, retail, etc) because they all consider me overqualified. I even went to a job fair the city set up and only 2 people would even talk with me (only to tell me that they have nothing for engineers.)

The entire job market is completely messed up these days. It's stacked so far against those trying to enter it that it's beyond frustrating.

 

[BHSU_Student]

Thanks for responding. I am sad to see the unfortunate situations this recession has put us in. Like I said before, I was going to pursue a masters in OT, but I have been reconsidering my options. Luckily, I have only accumulated 7k in debt with 5k in student loans for my partially marketable B.S. I just don't want to pay 70k-120k for a masters to find that I am overqualified and/or can't find a job that allows me to pay off my debt.

I have found that the U.S. government has to keep borrowing money in order to fund itself. Analogically, I think its the same as opening a credit account, using up all the credit, then opening another credit account just to get buy. Eventually this will to lead to a default/bankrupcy if the economy doesn't pick up. On the other hand, if we don't pay our creditors, other nations will stop investing or find ways to get off the dollar as the world reserve currency. This will lead to devaluation of the U.S. dollar and further economic decline. So it seems that the U.S. government is in some sort of catch 22, but borrowing more money seems to be the lesser of the two evils because it still gives us somewhat of a chance.

Now when it comes to college students, I think what we will see is an entire generation of disenfranchised young people waiting to pry jobs off of people who are refusing to retire (because they lost their retirement savings). Its like having a build up of products in a factory line because a machine broke down. Of course in this sense, the university is the factory and we are the products.

 

[Nerthus]

Seems similar to the UK at the moment. You believe a degree will help you, but it seems that employer are looking for the experience rather than qualifications. An added problem is that you need experience to get a job, yet no one is offering experience.

I guess at times like this, it's just an on-going search. Traveling may be good, but don't use all of your money.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Seems similar to the UK at the moment. You believe a degree will help you, but it seems that employer are looking for the experience rather than qualifications. An added problem is that you need experience to get a job, yet no one is offering experience.

I guess at times like this, it's just an on-going search. Traveling may be good, but don't use all of your money.

Thats the infamous catch 22 for experience. Imc I had to take an otr position as local work required anywhere from 1-3 years experience. I hate it, but sometimes you need to go through the grinder so to speak before the preferred positions open up.
I think getting those obviously requires preparation, time, and a bit of luck.

 

[painted wolf]

I graduated in 2010 and it took until this year for me to get part time work.

I also fell into the "overqualified" for non-degree jobs and "underqualified" for jobs in my field (biology). I will be going on to get my masters and ultimately hopefully my PhD.

If you look you can find programs that will offer reduced or even full stipends. I would only go to a school that required me to pay as a last resort. (Which I may have to do for at least a year but we'll see.)

wa:do

 

[gnomon]

Here's the bad news.

Waaah.

The increased digitization of knowledge and the ease of access to that knowledge along with the traditional outsourcing of manufacturing as well as customer service related positions has resulted in not only a loss of employment but perhaps a permanent loss of positions in this economy.

While most of us bemoan the loss of such employment how many of us order merchandise, in this capitalist economy, from online retail undercutting local establishments? How many of us are willing to continue to pay for legal assistance handled by an employed individual when such legal assistance if available for free or cheap online? It was one thing when automation replaced jobs in manufacturing but it's an altogether different creature when digitization of knowledge has eliminated the necessity for so many service positions along with globalization outsourcing cheap labor to fulfill consumer demands.

It's only going to get worse. Unless you are seeking employment in a health related field or an IT or programming field you are facing an ever decreasing demand for your services.

I'm in the current position of retail management in the industry I've chosen of probably having to seek new employment in the next five years. I looked into archival, library science and even digital related fields of the occupational outlook of such skills as research and library science. It's field already full of qualified personnel.

 

[BHSU_Student]

I think the Bachelor's degree is just seen as a piece of paper. Our education system doesn't make sense to me whatsoever. Clearly this is due to a divorce between the education system and the job market. These Universities charge students 50k+ for worthless, easy to acquire degrees, which in turn cause grade inflation and make the Bachelor's degree less creditable. Not only that, but they require students to take courses that are useless for the job market.

This rediculousness only serves to further destroy our domestic economy. They need to reform the education system to facilitate interniship, research, and other activities that help the student develop the skills necessary for the job market.

I don't think a single sector in the job market has been unaffected. My brother-in-law graduated with a Bachelor's of Science in IT, and is now working in mortage underwriting for a bank. He never acquired an IT job. Engineers and IT professionals are applying to administrative support positions in the federal service. And these are experienced professionals applying for positions that are near entry level.

Now the health field I think, is probably the field that has been least affected, because this field is more essential than other fields.

 

[painted wolf]

I think if you got into a program that didn't involve research, internship and so on, then you picked a bad school and/or a bad program.

I got my BA in Biology in three years and managed to get a very wide variety of experience. I got paid to do research over a summer, I was a TA, a tutor and did other jobs around the Biology department to maximize my marketability.

I would have had a full final semester to pursue independent research and possibly an internship if I had the funding to cover it. I had to go with a part time semester instead.

wa:do

 

[Caladan]

I think the Bachelor's degree is just seen as a piece of paper. Our education system doesn't make sense to me whatsoever. Clearly this is due to a divorce between the education system and the job market. These Universities charge students 50k+ for worthless, easy to acquire degrees, which in turn cause grade inflation and make the Bachelor's degree less creditable. Not only that, but they require students to take courses that are useless for the job market.

I understand that your Bachelor degree is in Psychology. I have to admit that you can't do much with a Bachelor in Psychology here in Israel. In the minimum you need to have a MA for better jobs, and a PhD for the genuinely serious jobs.
As for university fees, I'm afraid that it is a distinctly American reality to pay so much for academic studies. Neither in my BA in Israel or my MA in the UK have I come close to paying such fees. The British university I'm doing my postgraduate studies with has one of the best ranked archaeology departments, but the fees are nothing to compare with the 70k-120K fees you discuss, which sound astronomical and unachievable to me. So I'm afraid I can't give you advice, other than looking into programs abroad, perhaps in British or European universities and see if you can get scholarship and a program that might actually pay you off.
Regarding degrees in computer science which I believe you mentioned. Personally my friends are doing very well in the market, some of them with Bachelor degrees and some with postgraduate degrees. I also see that Mechanical Engineering has been discussed. My friend gained engineering experience while still doing his Bachelor in ME, today a few short years later he has an amazing job with an impressive salary. It could be that my friends just kick ***, but really I tend to think it's more of the combination of gaining experience early on with academic credentials which proves to be the best way to do it.
I think that Painted Wolf gave one of the best advices here, and that is to gain experience while still in one's first academic years, gain a foot hold in various academic projects, perhaps publish papers, etc.
Sometimes a Bachelor degree is just the first baby steps into a field. My BA made it possible for me to work for an archaeological body, but for better prospects I have to succeed in postgraduate studies.

 

[Windwalker]

I think the Bachelor's degree is just seen as a piece of paper.

I would say it's more a minimum piece of paper, like the way a high school diploma used to be. So where might you be without that then, could be the question.

Not only that, but they require students to take courses that are useless for the job market.

Then you go to a vocational program instead of a Bachelor's of the Arts, which is about a rounded education instead of a focused traded. All those 'useless' courses are in fact probably more helpful than you might imagine, even if you never directly apply them to hands-on skills. Think of it this way, it broadens your understanding of the world, which deepens you as a person. And it is the person, that makes the difference in the market when all vocational skills are equal! Trust me, how you present yourself in an interview against someone of comparable skill makes all the difference, and an education shows.

I don't think a single sector in the job market has been unaffected. My brother-in-law graduated with a Bachelor's of Science in IT, and is now working in mortage underwriting for a bank. He never acquired an IT job. Engineers and IT professionals are applying to administrative support positions in the federal service. And these are experienced professionals applying for positions that are near entry level.

I am an IT professional, and just went through 2 months of unemployment from my last gig. It only took me that long to get a new position because it was over the holidays and things moved more slowly, plus I wasn't looking that hard. I think I put out a dozen resume's and had 6 interviews out of them. What I'm trying to say that right now IT and accounting positions are the most high-demand positions for employers. It's definitely an employee market for us right night.

So as far as graduating an IT school, no such thing existed when IT started, and the closet they could come was a Bachelors of Science if they were looking for degrees. Getting certificates such as an MCSE, VCP, etc may be helpful to some extend for those with little experience, but they are pretty much worthless if you have no experience. An employer could wall paper is office with those from candidates and not one means anything to the person's ability to apply that in the real world. Only experience shows that. And if you have enough experience, those are irrelevant since there's is yet another newer product always coming out.

I broke into IT by taking a simple phone support position, taught myself networking on the job, applied myself, got promoted, moved into entry level in the IT dept with the experience I'd gained earlier, taught myself more, moved up in position, left that job to a new position, taught myself more, performed on the job, etc. What is my degree? Theology!! I can't begin to tell you how many are in IT with degrees in music, philosophy, history, etc. But, that degree means something, and that is that I am educated. That's where the degree matters. Skills are something you break into, starting in some related area and proving yourself.

And BTW, that catch 22 of how do I gain experience if I can't get a job without it, is hardly new to this economy. It's been that way as long as I can recall.

 

[BHSU_Student]

I think if you got into a program that didn't involve research, internship and so on, then you picked a bad school and/or a bad program.

I got my BA in Biology in three years and managed to get a very wide variety of experience. I got paid to do research over a summer, I was a TA, a tutor and did other jobs around the Biology department to maximize my marketability.

I would have had a full final semester to pursue independent research and possibly an internship if I had the funding to cover it. I had to go with a part time semester instead.

wa:do

I didn't really like my school very much. There weren't many research opportunities, and when I did get into a research project, the lead investigator had anger issues. I couldn't even join Psi Chi, because our local chapter was non-existant. Instead of an internship, I got over 500+ hours of work experience as a direct support professional. I also did some volunteering at the local VA. In addition I have 1000+ hours of customer service experience. I was also a statistics tutor.

Personally though, I have been applying to federal jobs, and there tends to be fierce competition for government jobs. Most jobs are biased towards people who have had years of federal experience, which creates a major barrier for those trying to get in.

I am learning about the federal hiring process though. It's very bureaucratic, so there are multiple policies and procederes that regulates who gets hired. My way around this barrier is by applying to recent graduates programs and by finding jobs that credit non-federal experience.

If I don't find a decent job I will have to just go back to school for the masters. Though now, I am more interested in earning a decent salary. I technically have an associates in IT, at least that is what my military training equates to. I should have just stuck with telecommunications, lol.

 

[painted wolf]

I didn't really like my school very much. There weren't many research opportunities, and when I did get into a research project, the lead investigator had anger issues. I couldn't even join Psi Chi, because our local chapter was non-existant. Instead of an internship, I got over 500+ hours of work experience as a direct support professional. I also did some volunteering at the local VA. In addition I have 1000+ hours of customer service experience. I was also a statistics tutor.

Personally though, I have been applying to federal jobs, and there tends to be fierce competition for government jobs. Most jobs are biased towards people who have had years of federal experience, which creates a major barrier for those trying to get in.

I am learning about the federal hiring process though. It's very bureaucratic, so there are multiple policies and procederes that regulates who gets hired. My way around this barrier is by applying to recent graduates programs and by finding jobs that credit non-federal experience.

If I don't find a decent job I will have to just go back to school for the masters. Though now, I am more interested in earning a decent salary. I technically have an associates in IT, at least that is what my military training equates to. I should have just stuck with telecommunications, lol.

I find my biggest hurdle with getting a government job is that I don't have a masters or higher.

Then again, most of the jobs I'm looking at require demonstrated experience with research design and implementation. Not what a Bachelors is really for.

wa:do