John 1:18 , why John isn't contradicting the religion, and, your interpretation, might be wrong.

[Desert Snake]

Something I wrote, concerning contradictions in the Bible. In this context, same faith debates. I believe that many Christians might be interpreting some verses incorrectly, and, this is a good example:

The Gospels were written by different people, they may present slightly different wording concerning God. The reason why this isn't a problem, is because Jesus Himself informs the religion, at various places. In other words, you default to what you know the religion is, by direct inference, even if there is confusion from gospel to gospel, because of wording. This always informs the correct interpretation, and, brings a realness to the Gospels, as one realizes that they truly are personal gospels, concerning Jesus.

Now, in the instance of an argument, or wrong, contradictory interpretation, you default to textual direct inference. Most of the contradictions actually, are from a wrong methodology in the first place, rather than an actual 'contradiction'. The Greek language word usage can be utilized to determine whether something is contradicting, or, the word in English needs specific interpretation, /to negate a contradiction/. In the instance where you don't know, or it is either or, you have to interpret according to what it should mean.
Now, in the Greek language, Jesus is 'God', in the text. Hence, at John 1:18
We would surmise that 'God', here, means Jesus form, Himself, not the Abba, for example.
Hence , 'Jesus is one with the Abba', we know that Jesus declaring God, means Jesus as God, in JESUS form, and in Yisrael.


Hence, the God that wasn't perceived, is JESUS, not the Abba.

Thusly, even though at first, it might seem like there is a contradiction there, there isn't one, and, Yochanan, isn't making a 'mistake', either.

Common interpretations of this verse, and it seems a few other verses, in the book of John, present a contradiction; whether they can be interpreted without contradiction , is the objective of this thread.

 

[Desert Snake]

Note that the only meaning without contradiction, is literally 'Jesus', and the direct perception, thusly/persona.
Since we surmise via the Gospel, that John wasn't practicing a different religion, the inference here is that this meaning is in the plurality context, and specifically referring to the 'knowing', directly, of Jesus, in Yisrael.
The wording, is tricky, because it seems to assume that the reader is already familiar, with the religion of Jesus.

This 'assuming ' that the reader already knows the religion, follows in the Greek language text, generally.

Ie the verse means, no one had perceived Jesus as the literal incarnation, of God, before. This follows the text of Jesus incarnation, in human form, and as the Messiah God.

 

[David T]

Something I wrote, concerning contradictions in the Bible. In this context, same faith debates. I believe that many Christians might be interpreting some verses incorrectly, and, this is a good example:

The Gospels were written by different people, they may present slightly different wording concerning God. The reason why this isn't a problem, is because Jesus Himself informs the religion, at various places. In other words, you default to what you know the religion is, by direct inference, even if there is confusion from gospel to gospel, because of wording. This always informs the correct interpretation, and, brings a realness to the Gospels, as one realizes that they truly are personal gospels, concerning Jesus.

Now, in the instance of an argument, or wrong, contradictory interpretation, you default to textual direct inference. Most of the contradictions actually, are from a wrong methodology in the first place, rather than an actual 'contradiction'. The Greek language word usage can be utilized to determine whether something is contradicting, or, the word in English needs specific interpretation, /to negate a contradiction/. In the instance where you don't know, or it is either or, you have to interpret according to what it should mean.
Now, in the Greek language, Jesus is 'God', in the text. Hence, at John 1:18
We would surmise that 'God', here, means Jesus form, Himself, not the Abba, for example.
Hence , 'Jesus is one with the Abba', we know that Jesus declaring God, means Jesus as God, in JESUS form, and in Yisrael.


Hence, the God that wasn't perceived, is JESUS, not the Abba.

Thusly, even though at first, it might seem like there is a contradiction there, there isn't one, and, Yochanan, isn't making a 'mistake', either.

Your doctor J Evans Pritchard approach is problematic. It's good systematic theology though. Please don't tell me you actually have a degree in theology. If you do you should know better, if you don't well its a degree that i actually have.

 

[Desert Snake]

John 6:45
John 6:46
John 6:47

Here, we get context as to who has 'salvation', even previous to the ressurection. In other words, those that seek the father, obtain to Jesus, even when they have perceived the Father.
We note that this correlates to the
John 1:18
Meaning, of Jesus in Yisrael, specificity.
Now, Jesus is necessarily inferring , that He pre-exists incarnation, as well.

 

[Desert Snake]

The wording here, is tricky, however there really aren't other options for interpretation.
The assumption has to be made, that Jesus isn't contradicting His own religion.

In other words, when one perceives the Abba, one also perceives Jesus.

This infers that John 1:18 can only mean, God as in literal human manifestation, form, in Yisrael.

Anything else seems contradictory.

 

[Desert Snake]

Thread note, there are many verses that seem present similar issues, you can argue these interpretations theoretically, however as far as an actual justification, perusing other verses, that is no longer being presented, as such.

Hence, the interpretations could have merit, though I 'm not putting any value to it.

 

[sojourner]

Something I wrote, concerning contradictions in the Bible. In this context, same faith debates. I believe that many Christians might be interpreting some verses incorrectly, and, this is a good example:

The Gospels were written by different people, they may present slightly different wording concerning God. The reason why this isn't a problem, is because Jesus Himself informs the religion, at various places. In other words, you default to what you know the religion is, by direct inference, even if there is confusion from gospel to gospel, because of wording. This always informs the correct interpretation, and, brings a realness to the Gospels, as one realizes that they truly are personal gospels, concerning Jesus.

Now, in the instance of an argument, or wrong, contradictory interpretation, you default to textual direct inference. Most of the contradictions actually, are from a wrong methodology in the first place, rather than an actual 'contradiction'. The Greek language word usage can be utilized to determine whether something is contradicting, or, the word in English needs specific interpretation, /to negate a contradiction/. In the instance where you don't know, or it is either or, you have to interpret according to what it should mean.
Now, in the Greek language, Jesus is 'God', in the text. Hence, at John 1:18
We would surmise that 'God', here, means Jesus form, Himself, not the Abba, for example.
Hence , 'Jesus is one with the Abba', we know that Jesus declaring God, means Jesus as God, in JESUS form, and in Yisrael.


Hence, the God that wasn't perceived, is JESUS, not the Abba.

Thusly, even though at first, it might seem like there is a contradiction there, there isn't one, and, Yochanan, isn't making a 'mistake', either.

Common interpretations of this verse, and it seems a few other verses, in the book of John, present a contradiction; whether they can be interpreted without contradiction , is the objective of this thread.

The contradictions are due to differing theological perspectives of the same event, brought out by the various gospelers. They each present Jesus and his Divinity/humanity, and his mission in a different way. It’s just that simple.

 

[12jtartar]

Something I wrote, concerning contradictions in the Bible. In this context, same faith debates. I believe that many Christians might be interpreting some verses incorrectly, and, this is a good example:

The Gospels were written by different people, they may present slightly different wording concerning God. The reason why this isn't a problem, is because Jesus Himself informs the religion, at various places. In other words, you default to what you know the religion is, by direct inference, even if there is confusion from gospel to gospel, because of wording. This always informs the correct interpretation, and, brings a realness to the Gospels, as one realizes that they truly are personal gospels, concerning Jesus.

Now, in the instance of an argument, or wrong, contradictory interpretation, you default to textual direct inference. Most of the contradictions actually, are from a wrong methodology in the first place, rather than an actual 'contradiction'. The Greek language word usage can be utilized to determine whether something is contradicting, or, the word in English needs specific interpretation, /to negate a contradiction/. In the instance where you don't know, or it is either or, you have to interpret according to what it should mean.
Now, in the Greek language, Jesus is 'God', in the text. Hence, at John 1:18
We would surmise that 'God', here, means Jesus form, Himself, not the Abba, for example.
Hence , 'Jesus is one with the Abba', we know that Jesus declaring God, means Jesus as God, in JESUS form, and in Yisrael.


Hence, the God that wasn't perceived, is JESUS, not the Abba.

Thusly, even though at first, it might seem like there is a contradiction there, there isn't one, and, Yochanan, isn't making a 'mistake', either.

Common interpretations of this verse, and it seems a few other verses, in the book of John, present a contradiction; whether they can be interpreted without contradiction , is the objective of this thread.

Disciple of Jesus,
To me there is not the slightest contradiction at John 1:18!! Here John is just stating a fact. No man has seen God at any time. This excludes any possibility of Jesus being the One True God, that Jesus spoke about at John 17:3.
Both in the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, Jesus is called god, but definitely not the Almighty God, whose Personal, Proper Name is Jehovah, in English. At Isaiah 9:6, Jesus, who would come to earth as the Messiah, is called, Mighty God, in Hebrew El Gabbohr. The Almighty God, in Hebrew, is El Shaddai. There is a world of difference between a Mighty god and An Almighty God. Ten Billion Mighty God’s would be nothing to The Almighty.
Jesus,himself said,the Father is greater than I am, John 14:28.
Jesus said that his Father is the One True God, John 17:3. Jesus said that the Father was his Father and his God, John 20:17, Revelation 3:12. The Bible tells us that Jesus was God’s first Creation, Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14. Jesus said that he lives because of The Father, John 6:57. Jesus said the there are things that only the Father controls, and some that only God knows, Matthew 20:23, Matthew 24:36. God spoke to Jesus from heaven,three times, Matthew 3:16,17, Mark 9:7, John 12:28, seeing that God and Jesus hate deception, I doubt that this was a trick,Psalms 5:6, Proverbs 6:16-19, 1Peter 2:22.

 

[Desert Snake]

Disciple of Jesus,
To me there is not the slightest contradiction at John 1:18!! Here John is just stating a fact. No man has seen God at any time. This excludes any possibility of Jesus being the One True God, that Jesus spoke about at John 17:3.
Both in the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, Jesus is called god, but definitely not the Almighty God, whose Personal, Proper Name is Jehovah, in English. At Isaiah 9:6, Jesus, who would come to earth as the Messiah, is called, Mighty God, in Hebrew El Gabbohr. The Almighty God, in Hebrew, is El Shaddai. There is a world of difference between a Mighty god and An Almighty God. Ten Billion Mighty God’s would be nothing to The Almighty.
Jesus,himself said,the Father is greater than I am, John 14:28.
Jesus said that his Father is the One True God, John 17:3. Jesus said that the Father was his Father and his God, John 20:17, Revelation 3:12. The Bible tells us that Jesus was God’s first Creation, Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14. Jesus said that he lives because of The Father, John 6:57. Jesus said the there are things that only the Father controls, and some that only God knows, Matthew 20:23, Matthew 24:36. God spoke to Jesus from heaven,three times, Matthew 3:16,17, Mark 9:7, John 12:28, seeing that God and Jesus hate deception, I doubt that this was a trick,Psalms 5:6, Proverbs 6:16-19, 1Peter 2:22.

I don't know what Bible you're reading, however that is wrong.

Note that aside from apparently reading a different Bible, you also aren't interpreting the word usage correctly,
3 John 1:11

 

[Desert Snake]

Assuming you consider the book of Genesis to be part of your Bible, and consider it to be the same god,

Genesis 12:7
The Lord appears to Abram
Genesis 15:15
Lord appears to Abram
Genesis 17:17
The Lord appears to Abram
Genesis 17:3
Abram falls before the Lord
Genesis 18:18
The Lord appears to Abraham
Genesis 18:22
Abraham stood before the Lord
How about the book of Samuel? Is that part of your Bible?
1 Samuel 3:10
The Lord stood before Samuel
•
In other words, you clearly are not talking about the God of the Bible.
• Since either you are not considering the Bible to mean the books of Genesis, and Samuel, as just an example, what is your Bible?
• I don't care if you aren't including many books in the Bible, however you need to specify that, before argumentation.
• What Bible are you using, and what god are you worshipping?

This excludes any possibility of Jesus being the One True God, that Jesus spoke about at John 17:3.
Both in the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, Jesus is called god, but definitely not the Almighty God, whose Personal, Proper Name is Jehovah, in English.

JHVH appears many times in the Bible, those verses are just examples.
So you clearly aren't talking about JHVH, if you are using a standard Bible.

 

[74x12]

Something I wrote, concerning contradictions in the Bible. In this context, same faith debates. I believe that many Christians might be interpreting some verses incorrectly, and, this is a good example:

The Gospels were written by different people, they may present slightly different wording concerning God. The reason why this isn't a problem, is because Jesus Himself informs the religion, at various places. In other words, you default to what you know the religion is, by direct inference, even if there is confusion from gospel to gospel, because of wording. This always informs the correct interpretation, and, brings a realness to the Gospels, as one realizes that they truly are personal gospels, concerning Jesus.

Now, in the instance of an argument, or wrong, contradictory interpretation, you default to textual direct inference. Most of the contradictions actually, are from a wrong methodology in the first place, rather than an actual 'contradiction'. The Greek language word usage can be utilized to determine whether something is contradicting, or, the word in English needs specific interpretation, /to negate a contradiction/. In the instance where you don't know, or it is either or, you have to interpret according to what it should mean.
Now, in the Greek language, Jesus is 'God', in the text. Hence, at John 1:18
We would surmise that 'God', here, means Jesus form, Himself, not the Abba, for example.
Hence , 'Jesus is one with the Abba', we know that Jesus declaring God, means Jesus as God, in JESUS form, and in Yisrael.


Hence, the God that wasn't perceived, is JESUS, not the Abba.

Thusly, even though at first, it might seem like there is a contradiction there, there isn't one, and, Yochanan, isn't making a 'mistake', either.

Common interpretations of this verse, and it seems a few other verses, in the book of John, present a contradiction; whether they can be interpreted without contradiction , is the objective of this thread.

Jesus the "WORD" made flesh. So the Word "declares" the Father.

In other words Jesus is the Father manifest.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus the "WORD" made flesh. So the Word "declares" the Father.

In other words Jesus is the Father manifest.

Well... there’s Modalism — one of the classic heresies...

 

[74x12]

Well... there’s Modalism — one of the classic heresies...

I agree with so called modalism for the most part ... maybe not exactly with the traditional idea of it. Unfortunately for us all we have to go on is the writings of trinitarians. They(trinitarians) destroyed all the writings of the likes of Sabellianism and other groups they considered to be heretics.

 

[sojourner]

I agree with so called modalism for the most part ... maybe not exactly with the traditional idea of it. Unfortunately for us all we have to go on is the writings of trinitarians. They(trinitarians) destroyed all the writings of the likes of Sabellianism and other groups they considered to be heretics.

There’s a reason why they’re heresies: they don’t fit theologically with orthodoxy.

 

[74x12]

There’s a reason why they’re heresies: they don’t fit theologically with orthodoxy.

Who decides what is Orthodox?

 

[sojourner]

Who decides what is Orthodox?

The consensus of the church’s theological leaders.

 

[74x12]

The consensus of the church’s theological leaders.

Popes and Bishops and such I assume?

 

[sojourner]

Popes and Bishops and such I assume?

Well... they would be the theological leaders. Nothing wrong with that; someone has to carry the torch of authority for the tribe...

 

[Desert Snake]

Both in the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, Jesus is called god,

You mean like in the premise that I wrote, where I call Jesus God.

but definitely not the Almighty God,

So Jesus is another god...

Jesus,himself said,the Father is greater than I am, John 14:28.

So?

Jesus said that his Father is the One True God, John 17:3. Jesus said that the Father was his Father and his God, John 20:17, Revelation 3:12. The Bible tells us that Jesus was God’s first Creation, Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14. Jesus said that he lives because of The Father, John 6:57. Jesus said the there are things that only the Father controls, and some that only God knows, Matthew 20:23,

Matthew 24:36. God spoke to Jesus from heaven,three times, Matthew 3:16,17, Mark 9:7, John 12:28,

So?

seeing that God and Jesus hate deception, I doubt that this was a trick,Psalms 5:6, Proverbs 6:16-19, 1Peter 2:22.

In other words, Jesus is a false god, since you believe that Yeshua isn't the true god.

That's interesting.