John 14:6

[Dogknox20]

Jesus "let" a lot of people do and believe a lot of things, but that does not mean He approved of them
No, Jesus told them not to worship Him, to worship only God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

They are one, but that does not mean Jesus is God.

Jesus was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror. This is why Jesus said, “The Father is in the Son” (John 14:11, John 17:21), meaning that God is visible and manifest in Jesus.

“I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that Jesus and God are one and the same, so whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings are identical with the Will of God Himself. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one and the same. Jesus also shares the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one and the same. The verse below says that God was manifest in the flesh; it does not say that God became flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

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I reply...

Trailblazer Christians have always believed and taught "Jesus is God"!
Matt 2:11 On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.
Trailblazer They worshiped Jesus as a baby!

Matt 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
Trailblazer They worship Jesus; Never do you read Jesus saying "Don't worship me"! Never do you read Jesus correcting them! Jesus ALWAYS let them worship him!

Trailblazer Jesus knows beyond all doubt.. "Worship is ONLY FOR GOD!" Jesus told Satan; "Worship is ONLY for God"!
Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."
Jesus would be worse then Satan by accepting worship knowing full well "Worship is ONLY FOR GOD!"

Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

Trailblazer "They WORSHIP JESUS!" Never do you read Jesus correcting them, Jesus ALWAYS let them worship him!!

Matthew 28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.

Luke 24:51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.
Trailblazer They WORSHIP Jesus..... First as a baby then throughout his life and at the end before he ascended into heaven! Christians have ALWAYS worshiped Jesus because Jesus is God!

Over 1.3 BILLION Christians worship Jesus because Jesus is God, Christians have ALWAYS worshiped Jesus!

 

[Dogknox20]

The Baha’i Revelation does not deny the Divinity of Christ, rather it affirms it.

Shoghi Effendi, an authorised interpreter of the Baha’i Revelation has stated:

As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promised Day Is Come, Pages 108-113

So as a Baha’i I seek to understand the nature of Christ’s Divinity as Christians have done throughout the centuries.

Logos (Christianity) - Wikipedia

It would be useful to consider how the word Logos was used around the time of Christ. Its useful to consider the Philo, a Hellenised Jew and philosopher understood the logos.

Philo wrote that God created and governed the world through mediators. Logos is the chief among them, the next to God, demiurge of the world. Logos is immaterial, an adequate image of God, his shadow, his firstborn son. Being the mind of the Eternal, Logos is imperishable. He is neither uncreated as God is, nor created as men are, but occupies a middle position. He has no autonomous power, only an entrusted one.

Philo - Wikipedia

So rather than being God incarnate the logos is viewed as an intermediary between God and man. This definition helps us understand and resolve the apparent contradiction between John’s prologue and the Biblical verses that reject the possibility of Jesus being God incarnate.

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adrian009 Christians have always worshiped Jesus because Jesus is God incarnate! "Worship is ONLY for God"!

 

[Trailblazer]

So how do people come to God now?
I see no difference.

I believe that people can now come to God through Baha'u'llah. Baha'u'llah claimed that He was God's Manifestation for this Day, and more has been revealed by Him than we ever knew in past ages.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal." Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

 

[Trailblazer]

Over 1.3 BILLION Christians worship Jesus because Jesus is God, Christians have ALWAYS worshiped Jesus!

Just because that many people believe that Jesus is God that does not mean that Jesus was ever God.
All those Christians are wrong because Jesus is not and never will be God.
Not ALL Christians believe that Jesus is God, many of them know the truth.

It is the fallacy of argumentum ad populum to say that something is true just because many or most people believe it.

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, bandwagon fallacy, voxpopuli,[2] and in Latin as argumentum ad numerum ("appeal to the number"), fickle crowd syndrome, and consensus gentium ("agreement of the clans"). It is also the basis of a number of social phenomena, including communal reinforcement and the bandwagon effect. The Chinese proverb "three men make a tiger" concerns the same idea.

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

 

[Dogknox20]

Just because that many people believe that Jesus is God that does not mean that Jesus was ever God.
All those Christians are wrong because Jesus is not and never will be God.
Not ALL Christians believe that Jesus is God, many of them know the truth.

It is the fallacy of argumentum ad populum to say that something is true just because many or most people believe it.

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, bandwagon fallacy, voxpopuli,[2] and in Latin as argumentum ad numerum ("appeal to the number"), fickle crowd syndrome, and consensus gentium ("agreement of the clans"). It is also the basis of a number of social phenomena, including communal reinforcement and the bandwagon effect. The Chinese proverb "three men make a tiger" concerns the same idea.

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

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To be Christian is to believe Jesus is God!
Jesus is God... Christians have always worshiped Jesus as the scriptures point out!
Jesus never ever stops them from worshipping him! Jesus accepts the worship KNOWING full well.. "Worship is ONLY for God!"

 

[Dogknox20]

I believe that people can now come to God through Baha'u'llah. Baha'u'llah claimed that He was God's Manifestation for this Day, and more has been revealed by Him than we ever knew in past ages.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal." Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

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Jesus is God incarnate... God made man! All the Authority of God belongs to Jesus!

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 Teach them to obey everything that I have told you to do. You can be sure that I will be with you always. I will continue with you until the end of time.”

Jesus is ALWAYS with CHRISTIANS!... To the end of time!

 

[Trailblazer]

To be Christian is to believe Jesus is God!

No, to be a Christian is to believe in Jesus. Not all Christians believe that Jesus is God, only Trinitarians.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus never ever stops them from worshipping him! Jesus accepts the worship KNOWING full well.. "Worship is ONLY for God!"

Jesus did not accept worship. Jesus never said "worship me." Jesus clearly says worship is only for God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus is God incarnate... God made man! All the Authority of God belongs to Jesus!

God cannot become a man because then God would be a man and not God.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49

 

[Dogknox20]

No, to be a Christian is to believe in Jesus. Not all Christians believe that Jesus is God, only Trinitarians.

You are NOT a Christian if you reject Jesus is God!

Arius WAS a Christian until he rejected Jesus is God... He was removed from among Christians as a HERATIC he was labeled "A False Teacher"!

Christians have ALWAYS believed and taught "Jesus is God"!

 

[Dawnofhope]

You are NOT a Christian if you reject Jesus is God!

Arius WAS a Christian until he rejected Jesus is God... He was removed from among Christians as a HERATIC he was labeled "A False Teacher"!

Christians have ALWAYS believed and taught "Jesus is God"!

It is for God alone to determine who is a true believer and who isn’t. It is not for man to determine who is a true believer (Matthew 7:1-4) nor any organisation that claims to represent Him. God has provided guidance through scriptures that clearly see a distinction between the Father and the Son.

Not all Christians believe Jesus is God incarnate and even if the majority of Christians believed it, wouldn’t make it true.

 

[Trailblazer]

You are NOT a Christian if you reject Jesus is God!

That is not true. Anyone who believes in Jesus and follows Him is a Christian.

Arius WAS a Christian until he rejected Jesus is God... He was removed from among Christians as a HERATIC he was labeled "A False Teacher"!

So what? That does not mean he was a false teacher, it just means he went against the false teaching that Jesus os God and the Church did not like that.

Christians have ALWAYS believed and taught "Jesus is God"!

That does not mean they were right.

 

[Dogknox20]

It is for God alone to determine who is a true believer and who isn’t. It is not for man to determine who is a true believer (Matthew 7:1-4) nor any organisation that claims to represent Him. God has provided guidance through scriptures that clearly see a distinction between the Father and the Son.

Not all Christians believe Jesus is God incarnate and even if the majority of Christians believed it, wouldn’t make it true.

You are NOT a Christian if you do not believe Jesus is God!

Arius WAS a Christian until he rejected Jesus is God... He was removed from among Christians as a HERATIC because he did not believe Jesus was God! He was labeled "A False Teacher"!
adrian009 Look up "Arianism"!
Arius WAS A Christian until he taught Jesus is NOT God! Historical FACT: Christians rejected Arius because he was a False Teacher.. A HERITIC!

 

[Dawnofhope]

You are NOT a Christian if you do not believe Jesus is God!

Arius WAS a Christian until he rejected Jesus is God... He was removed from among Christians as a HERATIC because he did not believe Jesus was God! He was labeled "A False Teacher"!
adrian009 Look up "Arianism"!
Arius WAS A Christian until he taught Jesus is NOT God! Historical FACT: Christians rejected Arius because he was a False Teacher.. A HERITIC!

As with anyone who is serious about understanding and living by the Gospel of Christ, I’m familiar with Arius and his influence on the course of Christianity.

I am a Baha’i. My Christology is based on the Tanakh, the New Testament and beyond that the Quran and the Baha’i writings. Arius has no influence on my theology anymore than Athanasius. I have no need to denounce, support or follow either man. I recognise the authenticity and authority of Christ and His Apostles as recorded in the NT. Man made dogma and doctrines are of interest but have no authority.

 

[Truthseeker]

You are NOT a Christian if you do not believe Jesus is God!

Arius WAS a Christian until he rejected Jesus is God... He was removed from among Christians as a HERATIC because he did not believe Jesus was God! He was labeled "A False Teacher"!
adrian009 Look up "Arianism"!
Arius WAS A Christian until he taught Jesus is NOT God! Historical FACT: Christians rejected Arius because he was a False Teacher.. A HERITIC!

The road to Jesus being God was a gradual one, and it wasn't until Constantine felt that all Christians had to believe the same thing, that all who believed that Christians wasn't God that they were declared a heretic. Then all the church hierarchy were not allowed to think for themselves for over a thousand years, or be declared a heretic if they did and burned at the stake.

 

[Dogknox20]

As with anyone who is serious about understanding and living by the Gospel of Christ, I’m familiar with Arius and his influence on the course of Christianity.

I am a Baha’i. My Christology is based on the Tanakh, the New Testament and beyond that the Quran and the Baha’i writings. Arius has no influence on my theology anymore than Athanasius. I have no need to denounce, support or follow either man. I recognize the authenticity and authority of Christ and His Apostles as recorded in the NT. Man made dogma and doctrines are of interest but have no authority.

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adrian009 If you reject Jesus is God.. Then you are NOT a Christian! All Christians believe and teach Jesus is God! Scriptures tell you Jesus is God!
Jesus rose from the dead!
The resurrection is a core tenant of Christianity! All united with the "Risen resurrected Christ" will also live eternally! Jesus lives forever so all "IN Jesus" will also live forever! To reject the risen Jesus is to reject eternal life!

adrian009 You adhere to the Doctrines Dogmas and the Authority of the Baha'i faith, so your statement (above) is false!

 

[Dogknox20]

The road to Jesus being God was a gradual one, and it wasn't until Constantine felt that all Christians had to believe the same thing, that all who believed that Christians wasn't God that they were declared a heretic. Then all the church hierarchy were not allowed to think for themselves for over a thousand years, or be declared a heretic if they did and burned at the stake.

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OPINION!
Truthseeker9 Is this all you have "Opinion"!
Christians have always taught Jesus is God!
>>>>
Truthseeker9.... Ignatius of Antioch is a Christian!
He wrote in 110 A.D.
“Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

He wrote in 110 A.D. “For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).

He also wrote in 110 A.D. “[T]o the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is” (Letter to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).
Truthseeker9 did you see it? Jesus Christ, our God
>>>>>

Truthseeker9.... Aristides is a Christian
Aristides the CHRISTIAN wrote in A.D.140.. “[Christians] are they who, above every people of the earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the Creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit” (Apology 16 [A.D. 140]).
>>>>>

Truthseeker9.... Tatian the Syrian is a Christian
The CHRISTIAN Tatian wrote is A.D. 170. “We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man” (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).
Did you see it? we report that God was born in the form of a man”

Truthseeker9.... So much for your OPINION about Constantine; you have NO facts just a wish and a dream!

 

[Dawnofhope]

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adrian009 If you reject Jesus is God.. Then you are NOT a Christian! All Christians believe and teach Jesus is God! Scriptures tell you Jesus is God!
Jesus rose from the dead!
The resurrection is a core tenant of Christianity! All united with the "Risen resurrected Christ" will also live eternally! Jesus lives forever so all "IN Jesus" will also live forever! To reject the risen Jesus is to reject eternal life!

adrian009 You adhere to the Doctrines Dogmas and the Authority of the Baha'i faith, so your statement (above) is false!

First of all I made a statement about what personal belief so what I said is true. OTOH you appear to equate your personal beliefs with facts. However what you believe is simply your belief.

Not all Christians believe Jesus is God incarnate, nor do they all believe Jesus literally rose from the dead. It would be more correct to state they are fundamental non-negotiable tenants of your particular denomination as you understand it. Then again if we dug a little deeper we would probably find Catholicism isn’t nearly as dogmatic and rigid as you present it to be.

Fortunately there are Catholics on this forum who engage constructively in Interfaith discussion and debate mindful of changes the church went through with Vatican II. However there’s clearly a huge fundamentalist backlash within Catholicism. Christianity is of course hopelessly splintered and the unity of the Catholic Church has long gone.

So thanks for sharing your beliefs, but they are not representative of Christianity as a whole, nor even Catholicism. For a more honest appraisal of how Christians view the resurrection, check out...

Can you question the Resurrection and still be a Christian?

Resurrection did not happen, say quarter of Christians

 

[Truthseeker]

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OPINION!
Truthseeker9 Is this all you have "Opinion"!
Christians have always taught Jesus is God!
>>>>
Truthseeker9.... Ignatius of Antioch is a Christian!
He wrote in 110 A.D.
“Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

He wrote in 110 A.D. “For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).

He also wrote in 110 A.D. “[T]o the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is” (Letter to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).
Truthseeker9 did you see it? Jesus Christ, our God
>>>>>

Truthseeker9.... Aristides is a Christian
Aristides the CHRISTIAN wrote in A.D.140.. “[Christians] are they who, above every people of the earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the Creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit” (Apology 16 [A.D. 140]).
>>>>>

Truthseeker9.... Tatian the Syrian is a Christian
The CHRISTIAN Tatian wrote is A.D. 170. “We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man” (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).
Did you see it? we report that God was born in the form of a man”

Truthseeker9.... So much for your OPINION about Constantine; you have NO facts just a wish and a dream!

Cherry picking. There was a group clerics that believed at the time of Constantine that Jesus was not God.

The Nicene Creed was adopted to resolve the Arian controversy, whose leader, Arius, a clergyman of Alexandria, "objected to Alexander's (the bishop of the time) apparent carelessness in blurring the distinction of nature between the Father and the Son by his emphasis on eternal generation".[11][12] Alexander and his supporters created the Nicene Creed to clarify the key tenets of the Christian faith in response to the widespread adoption of Arius' doctrine, which was henceforth marked as heresy.

Nicene Creed - Wikipedia

Constantine had become a worshiper of the Christian God, but he found that there were many opinions on that worship and indeed on who and what that God was. In 316, Constantine was asked to adjudicate in a North African dispute of the Donatist sect (who began by refusing obedience to any bishops who had yielded in any way to persecution, later regarding all bishops but their own sect as utterly contaminated). More significantly, in 325 he summoned the First Council of Nicaea, effectively the first Ecumenical Council (unless the Council of Jerusalem is so classified).[43] The Council of Nicaea is the first major attempt by Christians to define orthodoxy for the whole Church. Until Nicaea, all previous Church Councils had been local or regional synods affecting only portions of the Church.

Constantine the Great and Christianity - Wikipedia

 

[CG Didymus]

I recognise the authenticity and authority of Christ and His Apostles as recorded in the NT.

And what exactly is authentic and authoritative in the NT?

adrian009 If you reject Jesus is God.. Then you are NOT a Christian! All Christians believe and teach Jesus is God! Scriptures tell you Jesus is God!
Jesus rose from the dead!
The resurrection is a core tenant of Christianity! All united with the "Risen resurrected Christ" will also live eternally! Jesus lives forever so all "IN Jesus" will also live forever! To reject the risen Jesus is to reject eternal life!

We all know that different Christians argue amongst themselves who is really a true Christian. Some Protestant sects reject Catholics as being true Christians. And some people reject all Christians because they don't have it together about what is the truth about God and Jesus.

Now comes the Baha'is... They believe Jesus was one of many "manifestations" of God. And since Jesus came there have been three more manifestations, Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah. The Baha'is, along with not believing Jesus is God, don't believe that Satan is real. They don't believe in a physical resurrection of Jesus. They don't believing in any original or inherited sin from Adam and many more things. It is a totally different religion than your religion. I don't see why they even pretend or bother calling themselves "Christian". That is totally and completely misleading to what they really believe. I personally think they are closer to a liberal form of Shi'a Islam.

But what is it that they really trying to do? Unite the world in love and peace. To get away from the religious and racial prejudices that have divided people. Not bad stuff, but to get rid of religious division, they have to make some changes on how each religion sees itself and sees others. Jesus can't be God. He can't be the only way. There has to be a way that the essence of what Jesus taught is compatible with what other religious leaders have taught. And Baha'is do that. But then what do they do with the contradictions in the teachings of the other religions? They explain them away. If one religion says this and the other says that, the Baha'is say that the message was symbolic and was misunderstood.

Jesus being God is a good example of that. Some of the things said about Jesus, some of things he said about himself, and some of the things he did certainly make it seem like he must be God. But Baha'is put as close to being God as possible without being God. They say he, and all other manifestations of God, were perfect reflections of God. So looking at that reflection it would sure seem like you were looking at God, but no.

I get into all the time with the Baha'is over the resurrection. I think the gospels make it very close, almost, that Jesus came physically back to life. He ate with the disciples. He showed him the nail holes in his hands and feet. It was him. But what kind of him was it? The guy could appear and disappear and then floated up into the clouds? Physical bodies don't do that. So Baha'is say that all that was true, but only symbolically. The whole resurrection story is somehow some fictional metaphor that has some great spiritual meaning. And the same with Satan. He's only a metaphor. He's not real. So everything Catholics and other Christians think is true... is not. I don't know what else to tell, but you're not going to get them to see the "light" and somehow see how you were right and they were wrong. 'Cause they think the same way about you. That maybe someday you will see the "light" of how they are right. And see that the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally and that all religions are really one.