John 14:6

[Dogknox20]

Would you agree that her shouting at people “informing” people what their church “really teaches” doesn’t convince them anyone to join her church?

Hello... Jane.Doe I hope everything is well...
I agree.. I think the word we want is "Amicable".
.....................................................................
Dictionary
am·i·ca·ble
/ˈaməkəb(ə)l/adjective

1. (of relations between people) having a spirit of friendliness; without serious disagreement or rancor. . ......................................................................................................................................................

The best way to communicate is to listen twice as much as talking!

I don't think joining my church is what I was intending or wanted... To be Catholic you can't just join you have to take classes called "RCIA" the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults.

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops describes the program as a multi-step “journey".
The period of the catechumenate can last for as long as several years or for a shorter time. It depends on how the person is growing in faith, what questions they encounter along the way, and how God leads them on this journey. During this time, the catechumens consider what God is saying to them in the Scriptures, what changes in their life they need to make to respond to God’s inspiration, and what baptism in the Catholic Church means.

I wanted to inform not preach!
Jane.Doe To be Christians you MUST believe what Christians believe! It is just this simple!

I don't care if you are Mormon I do care if you think you are Christian because you are NOT! Wanting to be accepted does not mean you are accepted!
Jane.Doe Otherwise truth means very little! Think about this; there are thousands of Protestant churches all claim to have the ONLY truth but not even two of these thousands believe the same things! All from the same scriptures they arrive at different truths!

 

[Dogknox20]

Hi @Dogknox20

Regarding those who use Anti-Catholic sites being correct that "Catholics worship Mary".

Dogknox20 admits : "Yup you are right according to the Anti-Catholic sites "Catholic's worship Mary"
Admitting that this is correct is a very unusual admission.

These ex-Catholics and anti-Catholics are not just pointing out that you believe in worshipping Mary more than Jesus or God.

FACT : They point out that it is wrong for Catholics to worship other things than God.
FACT : They point out that it is wrong for Catholics to worship other things MORE than God.

Your Catholic belief that Mary is to be worshipped in priority over Jesus and God is not according to Christianity.
Your Catholic belief that Idols are to be worshipped is not according to Christianity.
Your Catholic belief that dead saints are to be worshipped is not according to Christian belief.

The sacred texts tell us repeatedly that these things are wrong, even evil.
One of the clearest commandments is "thou shalt have no other Gods before me".
You even ADMIT in post #287 that "Worship is ONLY for God..." (Dogknox20, post #287)


Dogknox20, Since you believe in worshipping these things in preference to God and in opposition to Christian principles, how can you then call yourself a Christian?


Clear
φιτωνεσεω

Clear your argument is not with me it is with The ONLY Church Jesus is ALWAYS WITH to the very end of time.. The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church founded on ROCK!!
Clear your argument is not with me it is with the Early Church Fathers!
Mary is the Mother of God... Catholic have always honored our Mother as blessed!

"From now on all generations will call me blessed!" ONLY..

Clear only the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church founded on ROCK can proclaim "We have always honored our Mother Mary Queen of Heaven Blessed"! For two thousnad years we have honored our Mother God commands.. "Honor your Father And Mother"!

Irenaeus is a catholic early Church father!
“The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God” (Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus is a catholic early Church father!
“[T]o all generations they [the prophets] have pictured forth the grandest subjects for contemplation and for action. Thus, too, they preached of the advent of God in the flesh to the world, his advent by the spotless and God-bearing (theotokos) Mary in the way of birth and growth” (Discourse on the End of the World 1 [A.D. 217]).

 

[Jane.Doe]

Hello... Jane.Doe I hope everything is well...
I agree.. I think the word we want is "Amicable".
.....................................................................
Dictionary
am·i·ca·ble
/ˈaməkəb(ə)l/adjective

1. (of relations between people) having a spirit of friendliness; without serious disagreement or rancor. . ......................................................................................................................................................

The best way to communicate is to listen twice as much as talking!

I don't think joining my church is what I was intending or wanted... To be Catholic you can't just join you have to take classes called "RCIA" the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults.

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops describes the program as a multi-step “journey".
The period of the catechumenate can last for as long as several years or for a shorter time. It depends on how the person is growing in faith, what questions they encounter along the way, and how God leads them on this journey. During this time, the catechumens consider what God is saying to them in the Scriptures, what changes in their life they need to make to respond to God’s inspiration, and what baptism in the Catholic Church means.

I wanted to inform not preach!
Jane.Doe To be Christians you MUST believe what Christians believe! It is just this simple!

I don't care if you are Mormon I do care if you think you are Christian because you are NOT! Wanting to be accepted does not mean you are accepted!
Jane.Doe Otherwise truth means very little! Think about this; there are thousands of Protestant churches all claim to have the ONLY truth but not even two of these thousands believe the same things! All from the same scriptures they arrive at different truths!

I know what RCIA is: in fact I read all of those materials, chatted extensively with various instructors, and would have attended myself if not for a schedule conflict.



You talk about being amicable, but you yourself don’t demostate that trait. Just like the evangelical lady at the university: you inform others what you think they believe and why you think it’s wrong. There’s zero listening from you. And just like Catholics get sick of the same-old anti-Catholic falsehoods being recited at them (like “Catholics worship Mary you need to repent and look to Jesus for salvation”), so do LDS folks.

 

[Dogknox20]

Actually, labels don't matter in the slightest to me, Dogknox. Feel free to call me whatever your hateful little mind wants to.

I see. Well, I do know the truth about what I believe, and that's all that really matters to me. As a matter of fact, I am the world's #1 authority on what I believe.

.
hateful little mind???

The truth is... To be Christian you MUST believe what Christians believe! I am hateful because you don' like the truth!? I have never called you anything! I pointed out what Christians believe!
Ignatius of Antioch is a Christian
“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ . . . and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

Pope Clement I is a Christian
“What think you, beloved? Did not Moses know beforehand that this would happen? Undoubtedly he knew; but he acted thus, that there might be no sedition in Israel, and that the name of the true and only God might be glorified; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen” (Letter to the Corinthians 43 [A.D. 80]).

Ignatius of Antioch is a Christian
“The prophets, who were men of God, lived according to Jesus Christ. For that reason they were persecuted, inspired as they were by his grace to convince the disobedient that there is one God, who manifested himself through his Son, Jesus Christ, who is his Word proceeding from silence, and who was in all respects pleasing to him that sent him” (Letter to the Magnesians 8:1 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr is a Christian
“There will be no other God, O Trypho, nor was there from eternity any other existing . . . but he who made and disposed all this universe. Nor do we think that there is one God for us, another for you, but that he alone is God who led your fathers out from Egypt with a strong hand and a high arm. Nor have we trusted in any other, for there is no other, but in him in whom you also have trusted, the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 11 [A.D. 155]).

Tatian is a Christian
“[God] himself also by his own prophets testifies, when he says, ‘I, God, am the first,’ and after this, ‘And beside me there is no other God’ [Isa. 44:6]. On this account, then, as I before said, God did not, when he sent Moses to the Hebrews, mention any name, but by a participle he mystically teaches them that he is the one and only God” (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).

• Christians believe there is only one God who exists as a Trinity of three persons. Mormons believe there are many gods and that the Trinity is incomprehensible. They believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate divine beings and they are “one” only in the sense of their perfect cooperation. Joseph Smith said of the Trinity, “[T]hree in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization. . . . All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 372).

• Christians believe that God’s divine nature is immaterial. Since God created all matter, he is not composed of matter. Although the Son has assumed a material, human nature since his incarnation, the Holy Spirit and the Father are both immaterial persons. But Mormonism teaches, “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22). According to the Book of Abraham (which is a part of the LDS scriptures called The Pearl of Great Price), God rules on a throne situated near a star or planet in our universe called Kolob.

• Christians believe there is one God, but Mormons believe there are many gods and that human beings can be “exalted” to godhood. The reason the God of this world has a physical body, according to Mormons, is because he was once a sinful man like us, but after death he was exalted and became the God who created this world. In a sermon for elder King Follett, Joseph Smith said, “You have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you.”

• Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the divine second person of the Trinity who has assumed a human nature. Jesus was always divine and always existed with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Humans, angels, and all other creatures began to exist at some point when God created them, and only God is eternal. But Mormons believe Jesus was once an eternally existing “intelligence” whom God chose to become “the first-born” among the intelligences, who eventually became “us” when God also gave them bodies. Joseph Smith claimed that Jesus said to him, “I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the First-born; and all those who are begotten through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are the church of the First-born. Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth” (Doctrine and Covenants 93:31–33).

• Although it is not essential to Christianity, as is belief in the classical doctrine of the Trinity, Christians have traditionally believed that public revelation ceased with the death of the last apostle or apostolic man. But Mormons believe that revelation is ongoing and that the president of their church is a living prophet (Nelson claims that the new name focus came to him by a special revelation from God). Moreover, they believe that ancient Jews traveled to the Americas and founded a civilization that Jesus later visited. The teachings of these peoples became “another testament of Jesus Christ” that was published in 1830 as a set of inspired scriptures called the Book of Mormonm

FACT: Mormons are NOT Christian!

 

[Jane.Doe]

.
hateful little mind???

The truth is... To be Christian you MUST believe what Christians believe! I am hateful because you don' like the truth!? I have never called you anything! I pointed out what Christians believe!
Ignatius of Antioch is a Christian
“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ . . . and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

Pope Clement I is a Christian
“What think you, beloved? Did not Moses know beforehand that this would happen? Undoubtedly he knew; but he acted thus, that there might be no sedition in Israel, and that the name of the true and only God might be glorified; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen” (Letter to the Corinthians 43 [A.D. 80]).

Ignatius of Antioch is a Christian
“The prophets, who were men of God, lived according to Jesus Christ. For that reason they were persecuted, inspired as they were by his grace to convince the disobedient that there is one God, who manifested himself through his Son, Jesus Christ, who is his Word proceeding from silence, and who was in all respects pleasing to him that sent him” (Letter to the Magnesians 8:1 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr is a Christian
“There will be no other God, O Trypho, nor was there from eternity any other existing . . . but he who made and disposed all this universe. Nor do we think that there is one God for us, another for you, but that he alone is God who led your fathers out from Egypt with a strong hand and a high arm. Nor have we trusted in any other, for there is no other, but in him in whom you also have trusted, the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 11 [A.D. 155]).

Tatian is a Christian
“[God] himself also by his own prophets testifies, when he says, ‘I, God, am the first,’ and after this, ‘And beside me there is no other God’ [Isa. 44:6]. On this account, then, as I before said, God did not, when he sent Moses to the Hebrews, mention any name, but by a participle he mystically teaches them that he is the one and only God” (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).

• Christians believe there is only one God who exists as a Trinity of three persons. Mormons believe there are many gods and that the Trinity is incomprehensible. They believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate divine beings and they are “one” only in the sense of their perfect cooperation. Joseph Smith said of the Trinity, “[T]hree in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization. . . . All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 372).

• Christians believe that God’s divine nature is immaterial. Since God created all matter, he is not composed of matter. Although the Son has assumed a material, human nature since his incarnation, the Holy Spirit and the Father are both immaterial persons. But Mormonism teaches, “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22). According to the Book of Abraham (which is a part of the LDS scriptures called The Pearl of Great Price), God rules on a throne situated near a star or planet in our universe called Kolob.

• Christians believe there is one God, but Mormons believe there are many gods and that human beings can be “exalted” to godhood. The reason the God of this world has a physical body, according to Mormons, is because he was once a sinful man like us, but after death he was exalted and became the God who created this world. In a sermon for elder King Follett, Joseph Smith said, “You have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you.”

• Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the divine second person of the Trinity who has assumed a human nature. Jesus was always divine and always existed with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Humans, angels, and all other creatures began to exist at some point when God created them, and only God is eternal. But Mormons believe Jesus was once an eternally existing “intelligence” whom God chose to become “the first-born” among the intelligences, who eventually became “us” when God also gave them bodies. Joseph Smith claimed that Jesus said to him, “I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the First-born; and all those who are begotten through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are the church of the First-born. Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth” (Doctrine and Covenants 93:31–33).

• Although it is not essential to Christianity, as is belief in the classical doctrine of the Trinity, Christians have traditionally believed that public revelation ceased with the death of the last apostle or apostolic man. But Mormons believe that revelation is ongoing and that the president of their church is a living prophet (Nelson claims that the new name focus came to him by a special revelation from God). Moreover, they believe that ancient Jews traveled to the Americas and founded a civilization that Jesus later visited. The teachings of these peoples became “another testament of Jesus Christ” that was published in 1830 as a set of inspired scriptures called the Book of Mormonm

FACT: Mormons are NOT Christian!

Did the lady I described at the university care for you, a Catholic?

 

[Dogknox20]

I know what RCIA is: in fact I read all of those materials, chatted extensively with various instructors, and would have attended myself if not for a schedule conflict.



You talk about being amicable, but you yourself don’t demostate that trait. Just like the evangelical lady at the university: you inform others what you think they believe and why you think it’s wrong. There’s zero listening from you. And just like Catholics get sick of the same-old anti-Catholic falsehoods being recited at them (like “Catholics worship Mary you need to repent and look to Jesus for salvation”), so do LDS folks.

Right I agree Catholic' get tired of the lies and half truths!.. You want me to say "Mormons are Christian"? I won't! because then it would be going against truth!
Jane.Doe Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church he built on Rock always with his Church for all time!....
Jane.Doe Jesus did not start the Mormon Church because it is a Contradiction to what Jesus established! FACT: The Mormon is taught Jesus failed!

To be Mormon you MUST reject the scriptures as a LIE! The scriptures contradict Mormon teaching! You have a choice but telling me to say you are Christian will never help you or the truth!
There can only be ONE TRUTH... It is: The Mormon church started by a man proven to be wrong in all sorts of teachings Or God and his One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church established two thousand years ago!

 

[Jane.Doe]

Right I agree Catholic' get tired of the lies and half truths!.. You want me to say "Mormons are Christian"? I won't! because then it would be going against truth!
Jane.Doe Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church he built on Rock always with his Church for all time!....
Jane.Doe Jesus did not start the Mormon Church because it is a Contradiction to what Jesus established! FACT: The Mormon is taught Jesus failed!

To be Mormon you MUST reject the scriptures as a LIE! The scriptures contradict Mormon teaching! You have a choice but telling me to say you are Christian will never help you or the truth!
There can only be ONE TRUTH... It is: The Mormon church started by a man proven to be wrong in all sorts of teachings Or God and his One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church established two thousand years ago!

For you To be amicable and actually act like a Christian. to listen to what is actually believed rather than continuing with the off-base accusation. Stop being the blind girl shouting “Catholics repent for worshiping Mary!”

 

[Dogknox20]

Did the lady I described at the university care for you, a Catholic?

Jane.Doe I don't think so.. I think; she is going after this...She thinks...Her proving the Catholic Church wrong will give her church some sort of credibility! Many over the centuries have tried to prove the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is NOT the Church Jesus/God established none.. No not even one has succeeded in pulling a card out to make the Catholic structure fall!

Scriptures
God promised.. "The gates of hell will not prevail"
God built his Body of ROCK not sand!
God promised to be ALWAYS with Her to the very end of the world/time!
God sent the Holy Spirit as a guide to Guide her into all truth... FOREVER!
etc

 

[Dogknox20]

For you To be amicable and actually act like a Christian. to listen to what is actually believed rather than continuing with the off-base accusation. Stop being the blind girl shouting “Catholics repent for worshiping Mary!”

Your example... Is moot!
Shouting no.

Accusation... Or Truth?!
You don't like what I have told you... Why would I lie, the last thing I want is to make you upset; I point to Scriptures, the Early Church Fathers/Tradition Logic and last of all History nothing says "God will fail, that God will need a man 1900 years from when he walked the earth to come to his rescue"! NONE!

 

[Jane.Doe]

Your example... Is moot!
Shouting no.

Accusation... Or Truth?!
You don't like what I have told you... Why would I lie, the last thing I want is to make you upset; I point to Scriptures, the Early Church Fathers/Tradition Logic and last of all History nothing says "God will fail, that God will need a man 1900 years from when he walked the earth to come to his rescue"! NONE!

You and the girl shouting “Catholics repent for worshipping Mary” are the exact same.

 

[Clear]

Clear said :
QUOTE :
Regarding those who use Anti-Catholic sites being correct that "Catholics worship Mary".

Dogknox20 admits : "Yup you are right according to the Anti-Catholic sites "Catholic's worship Mary"
Admitting that this is correct is a very unusual admission.

These ex-Catholics and anti-Catholics are not just pointing out that you believe in worshipping Mary more than Jesus or God.

FACT : They point out that it is wrong for Catholics to worship other things than God.
FACT : They point out that it is wrong for Catholics to worship other things MORE than God.

Your Catholic belief that Mary is to be worshipped in priority over Jesus and God is not according to Christianity.
Your Catholic belief that Idols are to be worshipped is not according to Christianity.
Your Catholic belief that dead saints are to be worshipped is not according to Christian belief.

The sacred texts tell us repeatedly that these things are wrong, even evil.
One of the clearest commandments is "thou shalt have no other Gods before me".
You even ADMIT in post #287 that "Worship is ONLY for God..." (Dogknox20, post #287)


Dogknox20, Since you believe in worshipping these things in preference to God and in opposition to Christian principles, how can you then call yourself a Christian? END QUOTE




Dogknox responded : Clear your argument is not with me it is with The ONLY Church Jesus is ALWAYS WITH to the very end of time.. The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church founded on ROCK!! Clear your argument is not with me it is with the Early Church Fathers! (post #302)





I am not arguing with you at all.
If you believe you should worship Mary or Idols and statues and dead people you call saints, I think that is your right.

My point is that your belief that Mary, and statues and saints are to be worshiped above God and Jesus is not consistent with Judeo-Christianity and thus I don't understand how you can call yourself a Christian.


Clear
φιφιτζακω

 

[Katzpur]

.
hateful little mind???

Yup, as hateful as they come.

FACT: Mormons are NOT Christian!

FACT: It's not your call, pal. It's God's. But hey, knock yourself out. If nothing else, your attempts to prove who is a Christian and who isn't are vastly entertaining.

 

[1213]

An important controversy in Christianity is the interpretation of whether or not Jesus made exclusive claims where He envisaged no one could come to God except through Him,....

I think that is not necessarily exclusive, it just means Jesus is the one who decides who can enter. It really doesn’t tell who are the one who he allows in. That is told in here:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

And it may be possible that people who have not heard of Jesus, can be counted righteous by this:

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16

 

[Dogknox20]

You and the girl shouting “Catholics repent for worshipping Mary” are the exact same.

Hello Jane Doe...
Nothing has changed.... Can you prove you believe the same as Christians!? No! You cannot.

You have by your name written "Mormon Christian" you think you are Christian!
FACT: Christians reject Mormon teaching! Jesus did not start your church he is ALWAYS with the only Church he established; as the scriptures clearly tell you! You have to go to another book other then scriptures to find Mormon teaching!
You have placed your salvation in a lie!

 

[Jane.Doe]

Hello Jane Doe...
Nothing has changed.... Can you prove you believe the same as Christians!? No! You cannot.

You have by your name written "Mormon Christian" you think you are Christian!
FACT: Christians reject Mormon teaching! Jesus did not start your church he is ALWAYS with the only Church he established; as the scriptures clearly tell you! You have to go to another book other then scriptures to find Mormon teaching!
You have placed your salvation in a lie!

Like I said: you and the “Catholics repent for worshipping Mary!” girl are the exact same.

 

[Dogknox20]

Yup, as hateful as they come.

FACT: It's not your call, pal. It's God's. But hey, knock yourself out. If nothing else, your attempts to prove who is a Christian and who isn't are vastly entertaining.

Katzpur good to here you yap off! It's God' call is it?
God told you in the scriptures; he is ALWAYS with his church to the very end of time. Joe smith comes alone, tells you after 1900 years: God lied there is no church left on earth he alone must come to God' rescue and reestablish what God could not hold on to!

God told you in the scriptures; He sent the Holy Spirit to guide his Church into all truth and the Holy Spirit will remain FOREVER with the only Church Jesus established. Joe smith tells you; God lied again...There is no church left on earth, he alone must come to God' rescue and reestablish what God could not hold and that the Holy Spirit lead the Church Jesus established into error!

God told you in the scriptures; There is no other God'; there never was or ever will be others! Joe Smith rejects the words of God, just like Satan he also wants to be a god, Smith then tells you that you can be a god also!
Katzpur Being your own god sounds just to good so you will run with the teaching of Joe Smith over Jesus'!
Again I tell you...Christians reject the heretical teaching of the LDS! If you were to listen to God, you would run from the LDS.

 

[Dogknox20]

Like I said: you and the “Catholics repent for worshipping Mary!” girl are the exact same.

I trust in Jesus and his words! Should I care what you think?
I simply place my salvation on Jesus! You place yours on Joseph Smith! I think it is you who should reconsider your words actions and beliefs!

 

[Jane.Doe]

I trust in Jesus and his words! Should I care what you think?
I simply place my salvation on Jesus! You place yours on Joseph Smith! I think it is you who should reconsider your words actions and beliefs!

“Catholics repent for worshipping Mary!!”

 

[Clear]

Hi @Dogknox20

Your belief that Mary is to be worshipped in priority to Jesus places you outside the pale of Christianity.
Your belief in the worship of idols is another characteristic that places you outside the pale of judeo- Christianity.
The worship of saints is another characteristic that places you outside the fellowship of judeo-christian religion.

It seems to me that you, as an admitted non- Christian are not in a position to make judgements about Christianity.

Clear

 

[Muffled]

With Jesus we have a record of what He did and said that was written at least 30 years after His crucifixion by anonymous authors who most likely were not eye witnesses to the events they recorded.

The Quran was written and compiled during Muhammad’s lifetime.

With Bahá’u’lláh we have writings in His own hand or from His secretary.

So the Words attributed to Jesus are the least reliable in regards in transmission when compared to Muhammad or Bahá’u’lláh.

The content of what is recorded through the Gospel accounts, the Quran and the Baha’i writings is readily accessible to anyone who wishes to investigate the veracity of their respective claims.

I believe the 30 years is not a problem because the Paraclete informs the memory of what Jesus said.

I believe John and Matthew were eyewitnesses, Mark is most likely writing for peter who was an eyewitness and Luke interviewed eyewitnesses.

I believe the B man could have written yesterday and it would make no difference because it still would not be from God.