John 16 prophecy for Muhammed?

[Gaura Priya]

I still believe that it was Muhammad the Prophet.

It's silly to see that Christians easily claim that Jesus is the Messiah foretold in vague Jewish Scriptures, and yet come to reject the claim of prophethood from Muhammad. It is that very same attitude, in my most humble opinion. He came to restore the universality of monotheism, glorified Jesus as a Messenger of God, and brought about God's revelation through the Qur'an.

Allah'u'Akbar!

 

[Gaura Priya]

'"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?"' Mt 7:15-17 NIV

'Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.' Col 2:20-23 NIV

Islam does not teach allowance for sexual indulgence, but believe that it must be controlled within marriage.

And the Prophet of Islam was shown to be a kind and merciful person, who was initially a pacifist. He only taught the simplest of truths that have been echoed by Abraham, his ancestor: that there is only One God, and that we all come from Him, and unto Him shall we all return.

 

[Villager]

Islam does not teach allowance for sexual indulgence

It teaches fasting, of a sort, and abstinence from alcohol. Which produce 'a form of religion, but denying its power'. Power that comes from the cross of Christ only.

the Prophet of Islam was shown to be a kind and merciful person, who was initially a pacifist

A pity he did not preach pacifism, but we would never have heard of him, if so, because Islam could spread only through violence at the average rate of one battle every other year, for 160 years; and not stopping then.

echoed by Abraham, his ancestor

I'm puzzled as to how an ancestor can echo. But who says that Muhammad had any relationship to Abraham?

that there is only One God, and that we all come from Him, and unto Him shall we all return

Which he copied straight out of the Bible, like much else. Though not the KJV.

 

[Gaura Priya]

It teaches fasting, of a sort, and abstinence from alcohol. Which produce 'a form of religion, but denying its power'. Power that comes from the cross of Christ only.

Now that's silly. Jews, monotheist Christians, Muslims, Vaishnava Hindus, etc. all know that all power comes from God alone. Christians abstain from sex before marriage, have fasting periods, and abstain from becoming drunkards and gambling.

A pity he did not preach pacifism, but we would never have heard of him, if so, because Islam could spread only through violence at the average rate of one battle every other year, for 160 years; and not stopping then.

But he did. And defense when necessary. It says in the Qur'an 2:190 in ultimatum that "God does not love the aggressors."

Islam also spread through trade and commerce; that is how Islam spread to places like China (Muhammad apparently said in a hadith, "Attain knowledge, even unto China."), Indonesia, the Philippines, and the rest of Southeast Asia.

Remember that Christianity also spread through threat and violence as well.

I'm puzzled as to how an ancestor can echo. But who says that Muhammad had any relationship to Abraham?

Ishmael is given promises in the Bible, and by adoption, all Muslims descend through the line of Hagar and Ishmael.

Which he copied straight out of the Bible, like much else. Though not the KJV.

He did not know how to read, nor did he have a copy of the Bible back in those days. Most of the Christians in his locality were those who believed that Mary was literally a goddess.

 

[Gaura Priya]

"And they said: "None shall enter the Paradise except those who are Jewish or Nazarenes;" this is what they wish! Say: "Bring forth your proof if you are truthful.

No; whoever submits himself to God, while doing good, he will have his recompense with his Lord. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.

And the Jews say: "The Nazarenes have no basis," and the Nazarenes say: "The Jews have no basis," while they are both reciting the Book! Similarly, those who do not know have said the same thing. God will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection in what they dispute."

-- Qur'an 2:111-113

 

[arcanum]

Islam does not teach allowance for sexual indulgence, but believe that it must be controlled within marriage.

And the Prophet of Islam was shown to be a kind and merciful person, who was initially a pacifist. He only taught the simplest of truths that have been echoed by Abraham, his ancestor: that there is only One God, and that we all come from Him, and unto Him shall we all return.

Muhammad a pacifist? Did not Islam spread by the sword? Take an objective look at your claims of a pacifist.

 

[Gaura Priya]

Muhammad a pacifist? Did not Islam spread by the sword? Take an objective look at your claims of a pacifist.

Actually, in the first seven years of his life, he was initially a pacifist.

For seven whole years, his followers were tortured, killed, harrassed, raped, and whatnot. It wasn't until after that God gave him the okay to utilise defense as a mechanism for preservation in a tribal society.

The Mughal empire did spread Islam by the sword, but this is about Muhammad himself, not what his followers did.

Islam wasn't spread through sword in East and Southeast Asia. It was spread rather peacefully.

 

[Gaura Priya]

It's funny how so many people with so little acquaintance with Islam, the Qur'an, or the Prophet Muhammad except through negative sources can condemn a religion, when Islam should not be only equated to Saudi Arabia and the actions of the United Arab Emirates.

Islam in Canada has been proven to be one of Canada's important religions in our country. The Ismaili Muslims are doing their yearly walk to raise money for cancer research next month with their "Ismaili Walk for Cancer 2011."

"Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of hardship and adversity and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous."

-- Qur'an 2:177

 

[Villager]

have fasting periods, and abstain from becoming drunkards and gambling.

Fasting is entirely voluntary in Christianity- and uncommon. Not getting drunk is not the same as abstinence. And there is no rule about gambling, either.

It says in the Qur'an 2:190 in ultimatum that "God does not love the aggressors."

Indeed. A pity so few read it.

Ishmael is given promises in the Bible

That he (and by extension, his tribe) would become 'a wild donkey of a man, in conflict with his neighbours'. That does seem like prophecy fulfilment; but there is nothing other than that to link Muhammad with Ishmael.

[/quote]He did not know how to read[/quote]
That is anachronistic self-injury. Illiteracy did not matter at all (even if it was true in his case; it was unlikely for a merchant). Lore was orally transmitted in those days. Bible familiarity was common enough, particularly on the trade routes crossing Arabia. The Qur'an seems like a blatant re-write to exclude the hard bits.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Fasting is entirely voluntary in Christianity- and uncommon.

Not true.

 

[JacobEzra.]

I still believe that it was Muhammad the Prophet.

It's silly to see that Christians easily claim that Jesus is the Messiah foretold in vague Jewish Scriptures, and yet come to reject the claim of prophethood from Muhammad. It is that very same attitude, in my most humble opinion. He came to restore the universality of monotheism, glorified Jesus as a Messenger of God, and brought about God's revelation through the Qur'an.

Allah'u'Akbar!

But what Jesus was saying, in the op, as I had shown in my earlier post, corresponds to his talking of the Holy Spirit and when the Holy Spirit came.

 

[Pegg]

Islam does not teach allowance for sexual indulgence, but believe that it must be controlled within marriage.

but doest Islam make an allowance for 'temporary' marriage? so that if a man is abroad for a length of time, he can marry a girl for a short time until he returns to his family. Jesus teachings about marriage were completely different in that he said if you divorce your wife and take another, you are committing adultery.

So how could a prophet of God recommend a form of adultery to its followers? God would NEVER want that.

 

[Pegg]

Actually, in the first seven years of his life, he was initially a pacifist.

For seven whole years, his followers were tortured, killed, harrassed, raped, and whatnot. It wasn't until after that God gave him the okay to utilise defense as a mechanism for preservation in a tribal society.

the christians suffered the same things for their faith, yet God told them to remain peaceful with all people, even those who beat you and kill you, because even if they are killed on earth, God will resurrect them due to their faithful life course.

Christ set the right example for us to follow:
1Peter 2: 22 He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth. 23 When he was being reviled, he did not go reviling in return. When he was suffering, he did not go threatening, but kept on committing himself to the one who judges righteously.

Jesus taught his followers to be happy when they are persecuted for the sake of what is righteous:
Matthew 5:11 “Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake. 12 Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU.

And the congregation of Christ remained pacifists even when the apostles themselves were being killed and put in jail...they didnt try to bust them out or fight the authorities, rather they 'carried on prayer' for their brothers:
Acts 12:1-3 About that particular time Herod the king applied his hands to mistreating some of those of the congregation. 2 He did away with James the brother of John by the sword. 3 As he saw it was pleasing to the Jews, he went on to arrest Peter also..... 5 Consequently Peter was being kept in the prison; but prayer to God for him was being carried on intensely by the congregation.


So Christ was a true pacifist...and if Mohammad was really being led by God, he too would have been a pacifist and taught his followers to be pacifists also.

 

[McBell]

but doest Islam make an allowance for 'temporary' marriage? so that if a man is abroad for a length of time, he can marry a girl for a short time until he returns to his family. Jesus teachings about marriage were completely different in that he said if you divorce your wife and take another, you are committing adultery.

So how could a prophet of God recommend a form of adultery to its followers?

It is only a form of adultry in your mind.

i mean if God condones or even allows it, it is not a sin.

God would NEVER want that.

It is utterly amazing how what God does and does not "want" matches so closely with the bias an prejudice of the one who speaks for God....

 

[YmirGF]

It is utterly amazing how what God does and does not "want" matches so closely with the bias an prejudice of the one who speaks for God....

I fascinating rubric, to be sure.

 

[Pegg]

It is only a form of adultry in your mind.

ok fair point.

But im sure many others who have read the scriptures have also seen what Jesus taught about adultery and divorce and for anyone who accepts Jesus view as a reflection of Gods view, then im sure there are many minds who think the same way.

i mean if God condones or even allows it, it is not a sin.

well he certainly doesnt allow or condone it in the holy scriptures...the quaran is a completely different kettle of fish in that regard.

Make what you will of that fact.

 

[McBell]

ok fair point.

But im sure many others who have read the scriptures have also seen what Jesus taught about adultery and divorce and for anyone who accepts Jesus view as a reflection of Gods view, then im sure there are many minds who think the same way.

This is nothing more than an Appeal to Popularity Fallacy.

well he certainly doesnt allow or condone it in the holy scriptures...the quaran is a completely different kettle of fish in that regard.

Make what you will of that fact.

He makes no mention of it in your chosen scriptures.
Thus you are merely expressing your bias and prejudice and implying they are based on something the Bible has an opinion on.

 

[gnostic]

So, in essence, the passage can be applied to any person a group of people decide it fits? :flirt:

Yep!

I'd vote for Goofy.

He is a great Comforter, because he makes me laugh. :biglaugh:

 

[BruceDLimber]

So, in essence, the passage can be applied to any person a group of people decide it fits?

Not really, no: I'd call that an overstatement.

Granted, there have been many Divine Messengers over the Ages (we know of over a dozen at presesnt), and there will be more in the future, apparently without any end.

There are various proofs and tests for determining who is or isn't such a Messenger, and it's up to each individual to investigate the various religions, decide where the truth lies, and follow that (which is what we call Individual Investigation of Truth), with no one else--not spouse, family, clergy, friends, or others--having the right to interfere in this decision.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[quickdraw]

Yes, Muhammad does speak God's revelation to Mankind.

God Himself says in the Qur'an, to follow the Messenger.

Jesus himself never stated that He was God. Jesus' divinity is highly contested, even now.

And your argument is the same way in that the Jews rejected Jesus.

Muhammad speaks revelation to mankind along with coming to wage war, unlike Jesus. Vastly different aren't they? Why would Jesus send someone so polar opposite to him. I am not sure who Muhammad was comforting, but his actions are not very comforting.