Revelation 17:10 refers to the kingdom "that is", which would be the ruling kingdom during the writing of the book of Revelation, which would be the 6th head of the beast. The book of Revelation would have been written during the time of the Roman Empire, just after the 10 horns (Daniel 7:25), with a parallel reference to the 6th head of the beast in the form of the Augustus Caesars. We are now in the era of the 8th head of the beast (Revelation 17:11), as shown by Hitler's 3rd Reich (3rd Roman Empire). Your story of jumping ship when you were 20 on bigoted grounds, reminds me of other people who take up the Catholic religion, or even the Amish religion, or even the Protestant religion, in order to calm their own beast, and marry someone who demands they get on another horse, or live without them. Their leading spirit is normally one of the flesh. This seems a worldwide phenomenon. People who call others "bigoted", often are trying to justify their own errors. I don't think it works out like you would hope.
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Joshua - The Christ View of Jesus.
- Thread starter Kenny
- Start date
Revelation 17:10 refers to the kingdom "that is", which would be the ruling kingdom during the writing of the book of Revelation, which would be the 6th head of the beast. The book of Revelation would have been written during the time of the Roman Empire, just after the 10 horns (Daniel 7:25), with a parallel reference to the 6th head of the beast in the form of the Augustus Caesars. We are now in the era of the 8th head of the beast (Revelation 17:11), as shown by Hitler's 3rd Reich (3rd Roman Empire). Your story of jumping ship when you were 20 on bigoted grounds, reminds me of other people who take up the Catholic religion, or even the Amish religion, or even the Protestant religion, in order to calm their own beast, and marry someone who demands they get on another horse, or live without them. Their leading spirit is normally one of the flesh. This seems a worldwide phenomenon. People who call others "bigoted", often are trying to justify their own errors. I don't think it works out like you would hope.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
This is false, it contradicts Torah, Exodus 3:15. It's not yeshua, it's the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Exodus 3:15 God also told Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob--has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.
**This is my name forever.**. Changing it to yeshua contradicts Torah. This is a good example of a Christian not knowing enough Torah to speak intelligently about Jewish scripture.
The point is the disciples were told to act like a serpent, but look like a dove. That's deception.
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I think you are twisting the words spoken.
“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Matthew 10:14-16
The one that used "deceit" was the false prophet Paul.
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.” – 1 Corinthians 9:19-23
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BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Yeshua is God and wrote the Law and Created (no one has yet seen the Father).
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I'm curious, if God IS Abraham's, Issac's and Jacob's God 400 years after they died, do you believe your soul will return to Earth after death and before Mashiach comes?
I AM THAT I AM is His forever Name, Yeshua's Name is I AM.
I don't think Yeshua agrees with you. (Matthew 11:27) Are you born of God? (1 John 3:9) If Yeshua was "God", then did not the disciples see God? I think your argument is without merit.
New American Standard Bible Matthew 11:27 & John 6:46
All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son determines to reveal Him.
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
It's possible, but I don't know for sure.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
My argument was against what I understand is your heretical belief that Jesus was created. He is God. The verses YOU posted show He is the only eternal God.
Thank you.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
There are some things you don't know for sure and will not know for sure as long as you uphold, honor and study Talmud (commentary on Moses) above what Moses said and wrote.
God IS Abraham's God NOW and Abraham didn't return as a soul.
When the argument about the resurrection, the Messiah and the End were brought to Yeshua, by ones who adhered to Moses but not Tanakh as binding, Yeshua went straight to Exodus 3 to show God IS the God of the living dead who have life eternal. That's one of a great many reasons He is my Chief Rabbi.
The first sentence of Genesis starts with "in the beginning", which is to signify that there was a beginning for the "Word" made flesh, and that is also signified in the statement, I am the alpha, and the omega, which is to say, the beginning and the end. God has no beginning and is eternal. If Yeshua says he has seen God, then according to you, he was looking into a mirror, and was looking at an image of God, for which all men fall under that category. I don't know, but it appears you are reaching to hold onto reeds, the support of man. (Isaiah 58:5)
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I reach for scriptures instead. Isaiah 9 a child is born who is the eternal father.
I am not sure where you got your quote, but the correct quote is below. "His name" is Yeshua, which means YHWY saves. It is the "Lord God", YHWY, who judges between the sheep and sets up "My servant David" as shepherd and prince (Ezekiel 34:20-24). The "Child" was "born", and therefore had a beginning. The "Lord God" has no beginning. And some may call Yeshua "Eternal Father", but that does not make him YHWH himself. I think your false Trinity dogma, promulgated from the Roman emperor Constantine's Council of Nicaea, has led you down a wide path twisting path (Matthew 7:13). It is the "LORD" who sets up "My servant David" as king over the combined "sticks" of Ephraim and Judah after they have been united on the land given to Jacob, "when my sanctuary will be in their midst forever". Yeshua was anointed and a sanctuary of YHWY, as will be all of combined sticks of Judah and Israel be in the future. (Ezekiel 37:28)
New American Standard Bible Isaiah 9:6
For a Child will be born to us, a Son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
My doctrine comes from the NT, there are many verses showing both Yeshua and the Spirit as God.
Isaiah 9:
For a Child will be born to us, a Son will be given to us; And the government will rest on the Son's shoulders; And the Son's name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus is CALLED all those names by Christians and has been for centuries.
Well, "Christians", would be represented by the "adulteress" bought for the equivalence for 30 pieces of silver for "many days" per Hosea 3. They also represent the "flock doomed for slaughter" in Zechariah 11:7, to be pastured by the two "shepherds", Peter, the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, and the false prophet Paul, with his false gospel of grace/cross, who was called "Favor" in Zechariah 11:10. The "falling away" of Matthew 24:10 started with Peter and his denial of 'Christ', per Zechariah 13:7 & Matthew 26:31. They also are represented by the "many" who follow the false prophets of Matthew 7:13, who are on the wide path to "destruction". The best advice comes from Yeshua in Revelation 18:4, "come out of her" or suffer her "plagues".
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
We are losing focus here.
Were Jesus and Thomas heretics in the gospels? Thomas knelt before Jesus and declared him not only Lord or Master but GOD. Jesus didn't say "Don't kneel to worship me, I'm not God."
I don't refute every idiocy I hear on this forum; does it make them real? Who was the 2nd witness to confirm what Thomas said? Yeshua said to confirm anything, you need two witnesses, which is an amplification of the OT law. (Dt 19:15). When you as a child broke your mother's dishes, and she yelled, "my lord and my God", was she addressing her wayward son, or crying to God to save her from the son of his father. If one holds on to a reed, they generally come away with a cut. Isaiah 36:6 One should not rely on the conventions of the world/nations/Egypt, or their false prophets, for their understanding.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Wait a moment. You reject everything but the gospels about Jesus then reject the gospels themselves?
There were many witnesses including the 11 when Thomas spoke, they could have refuted John's gospel.
According to the criteria laid down in Dt 19:15, you have not established what Thomas said or didn't say, or even what he may have meant if he actually said what you claim. You might want to more thoroughly back your claim, before it becomes a trap (Proverbs 20:25). The message you give for support was a supposed message from doubting Thomas, not from Yeshua. And I do reject 2nd hand witnesses, as in the case of the gospel Luke, as described in Luke 1:1-3). Keep in mind, that Yeshua came to fulfill the Law and the prophets, and in doing so, he commanded the field hands/apostles to leave the tares in place (Matthew 13:29). According to Hosea 3, the tares, the gentile church, the "adulteress", were to remain in place for "many days", or for after "two days"/ 2000 years (Hosea 6:2) until Israel confesses and returns.
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BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Who was the second witness that Yeshua "came to fulfill the law and the prophets"?
" " to Hosea 3?
Luke 1 describes Luke obeying Dt by getting more eyewitnesses to the events HE saw!!
John the Baptist (John 1) & Matthew 5:17 God fulfilled the prophet Zechariah 11 when he chose the 3 shepherds of Zechariah 11, the false prophet Paul, the "worthless shepherd", Peter, and Judas Iscariot (Zechariah 11:12-13) to "pasture the flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), the gentile church, the "adulteress" of Hosea 3, and God apparently used Yeshua in that task. As for fulfilling the Law of keeping the Sabbath, that happens during the millennium, and hasn't been fulfilled at this point. Hosea 3, is when the son of man, Hosea, was told to buy an "adulteress" for the equivalent price of 30 pieces/shekels of silver for "many days" until Israel returns. The 30 pieces of silver is referred to in Zechariah 11:12-13 and is directed at Judas Iscariot as verified in Matthew 27:9-10).