Judaism and Creation

[Gloone]

How does Judaism view creation?

I know Jewish people don’t like Christianity; they want to distance themselves as far away from it as possible. So I am wondering if Jewish people (or those that follow Judaism) follow the same 7 day creation story that is written in the bible or one that is similar. If not then how does Judaism view creation?

 

[Tarheeler]

How does Judaism view creation?

I know Jewish people don’t like Christianity; they want to distance themselves as far away from it as possible. So I am wondering if Jewish people (or those that follow Judaism) follow the same 7 day creation story that is written in the bible or one that is similar. If not then how does Judaism view creation?

Considering the the book of Genesis is the first book in the Jewish Bible and contained the Jewish creation story long before Christianity was born, I'd have to say that Christians follow the Jewish story.

 

[Gloone]

Considering the the book of Genesis is the first book in the Jewish Bible and contained the Jewish creation story long before Christianity was born, I'd have to say that Christians follow the Jewish story.

So there is no real differences in the story for Judaism and that of Christianity?

 

[Tarheeler]

So there is no real differences in the story for Judaism and that of Christianity?

Other than differences in translations or interpretations, none that I know of.

Both use the same book with the same story.

 

[Nerthus]

Christianity and Judaism share the OT. Jews don't believe in the NT whereas Christians do.

 

[Storm]

Seems to me, Tarheeler, that interpretation is key.

 

[Tarheeler]

Seems to me, Tarheeler, that interpretation is key.

True, but each denomination within the same religion has often has its own interpretation. I don't think it is an issue as far as Gloone's question goes.
There are many Christians who use the same interpretation as many Jews.

 

[Storm]

True, but each denomination within the same religion has often has its own interpretation. I don't think it is an issue as far as Gloone's question goes.
There are many Christians who use the same interpretation as many Jews.

Which one would that be?

 

[Tarheeler]

Which one would that be?

Heh, I have yet to find a single dominate one for Judaism.

The closest I can come to stating a widely-held interpretation is that God had a hand in the beginning of the world and the creation of life. After that, it's all over the place.

But the same holds true for Christianity. Most agree that God had a hand in it, but they will disagree with each other on the extent of that involvement.

The main difference between the two religions, at least in my opinion, is that Judaism has a long history of rabbinical interpretation and explanations. For every topic and idea brought up in the Tanakh there are a multitude of books and commentary on the subject.

 

[Storm]

OK, fair enough.

 

[Gloone]

Heh, I have yet to find a single dominate one for Judaism.

The closest I can come to stating a widely-held interpretation is that God had a hand in the beginning of the world and the creation of life. After that, it's all over the place.

But the same holds true for Christianity. Most agree that God had a hand in it, but they will disagree with each other on the extent of that involvement.

The main difference between the two religions, at least in my opinion, is that Judaism has a long history of rabbinical interpretation and explanations. For every topic and idea brought up in the Tanakh there are a multitude of books and commentary on the subject.

Well a story is just that, it is a story. Pie is a still a pie even if it can be cut 20 different ways. You kind of lose the value of pie once slices are taken away. Unless people actually valued eating the pie. It isn't everlasting though it does last until the appetite for pie is filled. Can we blame obesity on Judaism? lol

 

[Gloone]

Christianity and Judaism share the OT. Jews don't believe in the NT whereas Christians do.

I know some Christians that totally disregard the Old Testament. Then say “We follow the new testament. That is the only testament that matters”.

 

[Nerthus]

I know some Christians that totally disregard the Old Testament. Then say “We follow the new testament. That is the only testament that matters”.

Perhaps some do, but the majority will say that the basis of Christianity is in the OT. I've yet to see a Bible containing only the NT.

At times, I would like to believe that the OT isn't part of Christianity though.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

My Christianity is based on the new Testament.
However it would be hard to understand much of the early church with out an understanding of the Old testament.

Of course the Old Testament differs from the Jewish texts, both in their number and their order.

The Jews Have a far better and different understandings of these texts. Unlike Christians they rarely take words and stories literally. They also understand the limitations of the authors knowledge and the idiom in which they wrote. Nor do they mix up Law with History or fable, they understand which is which.

That the Bible texts might be inspired, does not mean they are the infallible unchanging word of God.

 

[Whoitbe]

The difference between the Jewish perspective on creation and Christian perspective. Very, very differet. Here's the king James version of genesis 1:1 -


In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.


Here's what the verse REALLY says:

1. In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth. א. בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱ־לֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ:

The commentary I'm about to post on Geneais 1 is by Rashi, one of the most widely esteemed sages and commentators on the Torah from about 900ce. His commentary on the first verse is extremely crucial. He brings down 3 commentaries on this verse.


In the beginning: Said Rabbi Isaac: It was not necessary to begin the Torah except from “This month is to you,” (Exod. 12:2) which is the first commandment that the Israelites were commanded, (for the main purpose of the Torah is its commandments, and although several commandments are found in Genesis, e.g., circumcision and the prohibition of eating the thigh sinew, they could have been included together with the other commandments). Now for what reason did He commence with “In the beginning?” Because of [the verse] “The strength of His works He related to His people, to give them the inheritance of the nations” (Ps. 111:6). For if the nations of the world should say to Israel, “You are robbers, for you conquered by force the lands of the seven nations [of Canaan],” they will reply, "The entire earth belongs to the Holy One, blessed be He; He created it (this we learn from the story of the Creation) and gave it to whomever He deemed proper When He wished, He gave it to them, and when He wished, He took it away from them and gave it to us.

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In the beginning of God’s creation of: Heb. בְּרֵאשִית בָּרָא. This verse calls for a midrashic interpretation [because according to its simple interpretation, the vowelization of the word בָּרָא, should be different, as Rashi explains further]. It teaches us that the sequence of the Creation as written is impossible, as is written immediately below] as our Rabbis stated (Letters of R. Akiva , letter “beth” ; Gen. Rabbah 1:6; Lev. Rabbah 36:4): [God created the world] for the sake of the Torah, which is called (Prov. 8:22): “the beginning of His way,” and for the sake of Israel, who are called (Jer. 2:3) “the first of His grain.” But if you wish to explain it according to its simple meaning, explain it thus: “At the beginning of the creation of heaven and earth, the earth was astonishing with emptiness, and darkness…and God said, ‘Let there be light.’” But Scripture did not come to teach the sequence of the Creation, to say that these came first, for if it came to teach this, it should have written:“At first (בָּרִאשׁוֹנָ&#1492 He created the heavens and the earth,” for there is no רֵאשִׁית in Scripture that is not connected to the following word, [i.e., in the construct state] like (ibid. 27:1):“In the beginning of (בְּרֵאשִי&#1514 the reign of Jehoiakim” ; (below 10:10)“the beginning of (רֵאשִׁי&#1514 his reign” ; (Deut. 18:4)“the first (רֵאשִׁי&#1514 of your corn.” Here too, you say בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אלֹהִים, like בְּרֵאשִׁית בְּרֹא, in the beginning of creating. And similar to this is,“At the beginning of the Lord’s speaking (דִּבֶּ&#1512 to Hosea,” (Hos. 1:2), i.e., at the beginning of the speaking (דִּבּוּרו&#1465 of the Holy One, Blessed be He, to Hosea, “the Lord said to Hosea, etc.” Now if you say that it came to teach that these (i.e., heaven and earth) were created first, and that its meaning is: In the beginning of all, He created these-and that there are elliptical verses that omit one word, like (Job 3:9): “For [He] did not shut the doors of my [mother’s] womb,” and it does not explain who it was who shut [the womb]; and like (Isa. 8:4): “he will carry off the wealth of Damascus,” and it does not explain who will carry it off; and like (Amos 6:12): “or will one plow with cattle,” and it does not explain: “if a man will plow with cattle” ; and like (Isa. 46: 10): “telling the end from the beginning,” and it does not explain that [it means] telling the end of a matter from the beginning of a matter-if so, [if you say that Scripture indicates the order of creation] be astounded at yourself, for the water preceded, as it is written: “and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the water,” and Scripture did not yet disclose when the creation of water took place! From this you learn that the water preceded the earth. Moreover, the heavens were created from fire and water. Perforce, you must admit that Scripture did not teach us anything about the sequence of the earlier and the later [acts of creation].

-----

God’s creation of the heavens and the earth: But it does not say “of the Lord’s creation of” (i.e., it should say “of the Lord God’s creation of” as below 2:4 “on the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven&#8221 for in the beginning it was His intention to create it with the Divine Standard of Justice, but he perceived that the world would not endure; so He preceded it with the Divine Standard of Mercy, allying it with the Divine Standard of Justice, and that is the reason it is written:“on the day the Lord God made earth and heaven.”


The Jewish and Christian perspective GREATLY differ.

 

[Levite]

How does Judaism view creation?

I know Jewish people don’t like Christianity; they want to distance themselves as far away from it as possible. So I am wondering if Jewish people (or those that follow Judaism) follow the same 7 day creation story that is written in the bible or one that is similar. If not then how does Judaism view creation?

First of all, I wouldn't say that we don't like Christianity. I would say that we don't accept Christian beliefs as our own, and we disagree with some Christian conclusions about God and His commandments. But that has nothing to do with a value judgment on Christianity.

Second of all, the Bible is a collection of Jewish texts, with the exception of the New Testament, which Jews do not accept the validity of, and so do not include in the Bible. But everything in the "Old Testament" (a phrase we don't use, since to us, there has never been another testament) was written by Jews, for Jews, in the Jewish language, to be understood using Jewish methods of interpretation and exegesis, all centuries before Jesus ever lived. It is Christians who have taken up and begun using our texts, not the other way around.

So our creation story is the one in Genesis.

However, how we understand that story is very different from Christianity.

For one thing, there is no one, single Jewish understanding of any text in the Torah (literally, the Five Books of Moses, but usually used as a byname for the entirety of the "Old Testament"). There is, generally speaking, no one, single Jewish understanding of anything, ever. Judaism is a religion which is built on multiple meanings, multiple interpretations, multiple viewpoints. It is expected that any verse in Biblical text could potentially be validly read in a thousand different ways, every commandment could be interpreted a thousand ways as well.

Generally speaking, very few Jews are what you would call in Christian parlance fundamentalist literalists and strict creationists. Much of the range of classical Jewish interpretation of the first couple of chapters of Genesis suggests that the text is deeply mystical, composed in veiled allusions to esoteric ideas, and thus not to be taken entirely literally. Some of those classical interpretations that do not necessarily read the text as wholly mystical still believe that this is the prime case exemplifying the Rabbinic maxim dibra Torah ki'l'shon b'nei adam, meaning "The Torah speaks according to the usages of human speech." By which is meant both that Torah employs metaphors, imagery, narrative compression, idiom, and all the other usual tools of literary composition; and also that Torah sometimes employs parable and allegory, to create texts intended to illustrate moral or homiletical points, but not necessarily to be taken literally. So for example, I have read many Orthodox scholars who say that while Genesis has a six-day timeline for creation, but these six days may be days as measured by God, and could amount to millions, or even billions of our years.

The other major difference in Jewish interpretation of the first few chapters of Genesis is that even those of us who read the Eden story literally do not believe that this incident created an "original sin." Judaism has no doctrine of original sin. And since we do not believe that all humans are born with a taint of sin, we have never believed in the need for a savior to remove such a taint. Which is, in part, why Jews have never believed in Jesus: the entire hypothesis for his "sacrifice" is simply incompatible with Jewish thought.

 

[Gloone]

First of all, I wouldn't say that we don't like Christianity. I would say that we don't accept Christian beliefs as our own, and we disagree with some Christian conclusions about God and His commandments. But that has nothing to do with a value judgment on Christianity.

Second of all, the Bible is a collection of Jewish texts, with the exception of the New Testament, which Jews do not accept the validity of, and so do not include in the Bible. But everything in the "Old Testament" (a phrase we don't use, since to us, there has never been another testament) was written by Jews, for Jews, in the Jewish language, to be understood using Jewish methods of interpretation and exegesis, all centuries before Jesus ever lived. It is Christians who have taken up and begun using our texts, not the other way around.

So our creation story is the one in Genesis.

However, how we understand that story is very different from Christianity.

For one thing, there is no one, single Jewish understanding of any text in the Torah (literally, the Five Books of Moses, but usually used as a byname for the entirety of the "Old Testament"). There is, generally speaking, no one, single Jewish understanding of anything, ever. Judaism is a religion which is built on multiple meanings, multiple interpretations, multiple viewpoints. It is expected that any verse in Biblical text could potentially be validly read in a thousand different ways, every commandment could be interpreted a thousand ways as well.

Generally speaking, very few Jews are what you would call in Christian parlance fundamentalist literalists and strict creationists. Much of the range of classical Jewish interpretation of the first couple of chapters of Genesis suggests that the text is deeply mystical, composed in veiled allusions to esoteric ideas, and thus not to be taken entirely literally. Some of those classical interpretations that do not necessarily read the text as wholly mystical still believe that this is the prime case exemplifying the Rabbinic maxim dibra Torah ki'l'shon b'nei adam, meaning "The Torah speaks according to the usages of human speech." By which is meant both that Torah employs metaphors, imagery, narrative compression, idiom, and all the other usual tools of literary composition; and also that Torah sometimes employs parable and allegory, to create texts intended to illustrate moral or homiletical points, but not necessarily to be taken literally. So for example, I have read many Orthodox scholars who say that while Genesis has a six-day timeline for creation, but these six days may be days as measured by God, and could amount to millions, or even billions of our years.

The other major difference in Jewish interpretation of the first few chapters of Genesis is that even those of us who read the Eden story literally do not believe that this incident created an "original sin." Judaism has no doctrine of original sin. And since we do not believe that all humans are born with a taint of sin, we have never believed in the need for a savior to remove such a taint. Which is, in part, why Jews have never believed in Jesus: the entire hypothesis for his "sacrifice" is simply incompatible with Jewish thought.

I, myself am not sure how the term original sin came about but I don't think people are born tainted with sin either. It is just a worldly sin where commandments are not obeyed, accepted or fully understood. Jesus was a messenger or prophet before he became a savior / sacrifice. I am not even real sure how much of a choice he had in the matter either. So do Jewish people not feel there is a need for prophets or messengers of god.

 

[Zardoz]

... So do Jewish people not feel there is a need for prophets or messengers of god.

I wouldn't go that far, we just don't feel the need to be 'saved' from some 'original sin'. We humans sin enough on our own to need guidance and to be pointed in the right direction.

:seesaw:

 

[Levite]

So do Jewish people not feel there is a need for prophets or messengers of god.

We have had need for such, before, and may yet again. Prophets, as we define them, were not merely those who heard God's voice (we believe that any person is capable of hearing God's voice), but those to whom God gave specific moral and ethical messages intended to be disseminated to society. But we also believe that the age of prophecy ended with Ezra and Nehemiah, and no more prophets will appear, unless perhaps in the age of the messiah, which has yet to come.

There have been many suggested explanations for why prophecy ended with Ezra and Nehemiah; but the one that always resonates most with me is that since we have yet to fully absorb and live up to the moral and ethical messages God has already sent us, there would be little point in Him sending us new ones.

 

[horiturk]

actually mainstream christianity believes jesus is God and therefore the entire bible is about jesus. i'd say that's a pretty big difference even though they're both reading the same book