Judaism, Christianity, and Islam!

[Darth Decembus]

I believe that in the western part of the world where I live the religions that have had them most profound impact on history thus far are of course Jewdism, Christianity, and Islam.

I say that because they all have left drastic effects on the world such as causing wars and the creation of various nations. Even in todays world we see not only a dispute between Christians and Muslims but Muslims are also fighting amongst them selves. Jews and Christians today may claim their religion is of a peaceful nature but if you were to reflect upon historical events you would see that history states other wise. One key example being that in order for the Jews to even get their nation of Israel they had to take it from some one else. Read the old testament and you will find that Jews were vary agressive back then just like Muslims are today. Quite a bit of the old testament is a recording of war and conquering different nations. Any military mind can tell you that the Torah is a guide book for war.

Now on to Christianity during the Middle Ages the Christians had a hay day with torturing and murdering "non-christians": by which I mean any one whom was not catholic! Any variations of Christianity of the time were wipped out by the Catholics because they were thought of as "Satanic"! The Catholic Church at the time had a considerable amount of power but it wanted MORE! So they went on the Crusades where they murdered countless people and in some situations they would rip the flesh from the bodies of there dead foes and eat it while drinking their blood. In the name of CHRIST these actions took place against Muslims, Jews, and Non-Catholics alike.

Current events show that Islam like its two brother religions is a Theology of War and a path toward death and destruction. Most Western religions evloved in much the same way where the only way to expand its self is through war and fear.

 

[Random]

Current events show that Islam like its two brother religions is a Theology of War and a path toward death and destruction. Most Western religions evloved in much the same way where the only way to expand its self is through war and fear.

Indeed, just so.

And it's "Judaism", BTW.

 

[Darth Decembus]

A few Eastern Religions such as Buddhism and posibly Taoism have key beliefs that keep them from expanding by means of imperialism.

 

[Khale]

Current events show that Islam like its two brother religions is a Theology of War and a path toward death and destruction. Most Western religions evloved in much the same way where the only way to expand its self is through war and fear.

This statement shows a profound misunderstanding of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and history, and is, quite frankly, insulting.

Every day numerous branches of those religions listed, and many others, are working to preserve and further the peace of our society. During various catastrophes (Katrina, the 2004 Tsunami, African droughts and famine) and throughout persistent societal problems (Poverty, Abuse, Addiction) these religious groups have been among the forerunners providing aid.

Even looking at the sacred texts of the respective religions themselves will reveal long discourses on the value of peace and the sanctity of human life. There are of course moments of violence throughout these books. I won't even argue that some of these religions were originally religions of peace. However, during the times when violence was the norm within these religions it was also the norm within society itself. As society progressed, social norms changed as did the religions. To say that they spread solely by war and fear is ignorant. As general rule anything spread by war and fear alone has a tendency to collapse. This is something that history has shown.

Now on to Christianity during the Middle Ages the Christians had a hay day with torturing and murdering "non-christians": by which I mean any one whom was not catholic! Any variations of Christianity of the time were wipped out by the Catholics because they were thought of as "Satanic"! The Catholic Church at the time had a considerable amount of power but it wanted MORE! So they went on the Crusades where they murdered countless people and in some situations they would rip the flesh from the bodies of there dead foes and eat it while drinking their blood. In the name of CHRIST these actions took place against Muslims, Jews, and Non-Catholics alike.

The Crusades (Christian), current violence within the middle east (Judaism, Islam), even WWII era Japan (Buddhism), though horrendous all, are not caused by the religions themselves. Generally, a certain power is trying to be obtained whether over money, land, resources, or others, the religion that is used to support it is entirely inconsequential. It is simply used to support the cause and draw more people to the fight. Had any other religion been in place or even any other strong social tradition it could have just as easily been used to support the cause.

 

[Sunstone]

Current events show that Islam like its two brother religions is a Theology of War and a path toward death and destruction. Most Western religions evloved in much the same way where the only way to expand its self is through war and fear.

This represents an inadequate understanding of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and how each of them in their own way originated, grew and expanded.http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=851381

 

[Random]

This represents an inadequate understanding of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and how each of them in their own way originated, grew and expanded.

Yes it does, but he is not offering it as such: merely pointing out in an awkward way that all of the Patriarchal abrahamic gods were or are Gods of War, @ one time, and theologians inherited some warlike concepts in their musings on these deities.

Which is true.

 

[Khale]

Yes it does, but he is not offering it as such: merely pointing out in an awkward way that all of the Patriarchal abrahamic gods were or are Gods of War, @ one time, and theologians inherited some warlike concepts in their musings on these deities.

It is true that the origins of these religions were more war centric. However, Darth Decembus has quite bluntly stated that the religions, at their core, are theologies of fear and violence.

Which they are not.

 

[Random]

It is true that the origins of these religions were more war centric. However, Darth Decembus has quite bluntly stated that the religions, at their core, are theologies of fear and violence.

Which they are not.

Some Fear of GOD and priestly "corrective discipline" might change your mind...

 

[Khale]

Some Fear of GOD and priestly "corrective discipline" might change your mind...

I spent quite a bit of time in a very fundamentalist baptist church. Fear of God was one of the topics preached about in detail. I can honestly say that it has not changed my mind in the least.

Fear of God, though occasionally meant in a quaking, cowering sort of way, usually means (in my experience at least) that the only one that you should fear is God. After all, if God has power over everything the only way harm is going to come to you is through him. Much in the same way that any child would be afraid to disobey their parents. However, even when it is taken literally as God being a terrifying deity this is generally confined to small splinter groups and should not be used to make generalizations about the religion as a whole.

As for priestly "corrective discipline," what did you have in mind?

Before you answer, is this discipline a practice of the Christian majority or is it something that appears within small albeit widely reported groups.

 

[ChristineES]

I get so tired of being told my religion causes war. I have said this many times before, Religion does not cause war, people cause war. The Christians I have known were kindly people, who were even kindly to those who did not share their faith.
The atom bomb was invented by a known atheist.

 

[Darth Decembus]

Fear of God, though occasionally meant in a quaking, cowering sort of way, usually means (in my experience at least) that the only one that you should fear is God. After all, if God has power over everything the only way harm is going to come to you is through him.[/quote]

To say a few words: So the harm that came to the Jews durning WW2 was the will of God. So 911 was the will of God and I guess all the things Nero Ceaser did was the will of God because that is what your saying. If you were to argue those things were done by Satan well it is God who lets the beast off its chain to run amuck. If by the will of God Jesus was born then by the will of God the Beast will be born. Satan is a dog on a chain who can only act when God allows him to act. Hitler, Bin Laden, and Nero are all the same as the devil they can only acomplish what God allows them to and when their time is up it becomes most painful for them. In this day and age God has allowed Satan to take the gloves off and if a vission I have had comes true the Anti-Christ will be born some where in Europe.

The birth of the Anti-Christ will mirror that of Jesus's and Christians all over the world shall proclaim this is the Second coming. Jews will proclaim the messiah is here, and Muslims will think that Muhamead has returned. The three once divided made whole will become and the Jewish temple will be rebuilt where it once stood. There will be those of course who will find some thing odd about the man and his ways. A few Jews, Christians, and Muslims along with any other people who can see through the Anti-Christ will band together and try to over throw him. The Anit Christ will die and with his Satanic powers will rise from the dead. The men who opposed him will simply vanish into thin air and a crowd will gaspe in awe. The crowd will belive that those men who opposed him were punished when in actuallity they were brought before God.
After this there will be two angels sent from God to proclaim the Truth to the world and they shall be known as Whitnesses.

 

[neves]

Fear of God, though occasionally meant in a quaking, cowering sort of way, usually means (in my experience at least) that the only one that you should fear is God. After all, if God has power over everything the only way harm is going to come to you is through him.

To say a few words: So the harm that came to the Jews durning WW2 was the will of God. So 911 was the will of God and I guess all the things Nero Ceaser did was the will of God because that is what your saying. If you were to argue those things were done by Satan well it is God who lets the beast off its chain to run amuck. If by the will of God Jesus was born then by the will of God the Beast will be born. Satan is a dog on a chain who can only act when God allows him to act. Hitler, Bin Laden, and Nero are all the same as the devil they can only acomplish what God allows them to and when their time is up it becomes most painful for them. In this day and age God has allowed Satan to take the gloves off and if a vission I have had comes true the Anti-Christ will be born some where in Europe.

The birth of the Anti-Christ will mirror that of Jesus's and Christians all over the world shall proclaim this is the Second coming. Jews will proclaim the messiah is here, and Muslims will think that Muhamead has returned. The three once divided made whole will become and the Jewish temple will be rebuilt where it once stood. There will be those of course who will find some thing odd about the man and his ways. A few Jews, Christians, and Muslims along with any other people who can see through the Anti-Christ will band together and try to over throw him. The Anit Christ will die and with his Satanic powers will rise from the dead. The men who opposed him will simply vanish into thin air and a crowd will gaspe in awe. The crowd will belive that those men who opposed him were punished when in actuallity they were brought before God.
After this there will be two angels sent from God to proclaim the Truth to the world and they shall be known as Whitnesses.[/quote]

Please educate yourself on who the Muslims think the Messiah is...

about all these dark human history your mentioned... just because God knows about what is going to happen...doesn’t mean he is going to interfere... or free-will would be compromised... It was the will of man...

 

[James the Persian]

I get so tired of being told my religion causes war. I have said this many times before, Religion does not cause war, people cause war. The Christians I have known were kindly people, who were even kindly to those who did not share their faith.
The atom bomb was invented by a known atheist.

As am I. I'm also tired of the whole western parochialism that's tied up with the usual, 'look at what the Catholics did, that must mean Christianity is bad' argument. The Roman Catholic church is a western church. They were never the whole Church. We and the Oriental Orthodox church had nothing to do with the Crusades or the Inquisition, or any of the other charges usually used to 'prove' how vicious Christianity is. On the contrary, we were victims of the Crusades, and those wars prove nothing about the faith, only about those who would twist their faith to their own ends, even to the point of slaughtering those who share their faith in Christ.

And, no, the Roman Catholics didn't wipe out all other forms of Christianity. Try looking a little further east than Italy and a little further back in time than the Middle Ages. We and Rome have not been in communion for almost 1000 years and we're still very much here (the next largest church after the RCC, in fact). The OOs have been separate even longer and they're still here and the Assyrians longer still. Frankly, the OP relies on an incredibly myopic view of history, both temporally and geographically.

James

 

[salam]

["Peace" is the most common word on a Muslim's tongue. Whenever two people meet, they exchange greetings, wishing each other peace: "Peace be upon you." But peace cannot prevail except through justice. Since the concept of justice may differ from one man to another, or from one society to another, Muslims believe that real justice is that which is specified by Allah (God).

Islam permits fighting in self-defense, in defense of the religion, or by those who have been expelled forcibly from their homes. At the same time, Islam requires one to treat one's enemy mercifully. It lays down strict rules of combat which include prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops, trees, and livestock. Islam also requires that if an enemy declares his desire to end hostilities and seek peace, the Muslims must do the same.

The concept of Jihad (struggling in the cause of Allah) is stated in the Qur'an. Allah said: «"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors."» [2:19]

Jihad is never to be waged to force anybody to choose a particular religion. On the contrary, it is to waged to protect his right to choose freely. Therefore, if there is a force in the world that tries to prevent a person from practicing this right, Jihad may lead to fighting the force that is trying to prevent him from exercising free will.]
[It is a common complaint among many non-Muslims that Islam would not be having millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.
1. Islam means peace Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’, which means peace. It also means submitting one’s will to Allah (SWT). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one’s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (SWT).
2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against the criminal and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.
3. Historian De Lacy O’Leary’s opinion De Lacy O’Leary in the book “Islam at the crossroad” (Page 8) gives the best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword: “History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated.”
4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years The Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim who could openly give the Azan, that is the call for prayers.
5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians, i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.
6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India The Moghuls ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.
7. Indonesia and Malaysia Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, “Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?”
8. East Coast of Africa Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, “Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa.”
9. Reason for Spread of Islam Even when Muslims won battles they never forced the non-Muslims to accept Islam. The behaviour, brotherhood, honesty and justice of the Muslims and the universality and practical approach of Islam were the reasons for non-Muslims to accept Islam. Islam spread a great extent by the Muslim traders and businessmen who spread in different parts of the world and whose behaviour impressed the non-Muslims.
10. Thomas Carlyle The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book “Heroes and Hero worship”, refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: “The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one, in one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it; there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and tries to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can.’
11. No compulsion in religion With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had the sword they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says: “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error” [Al-Qur’an: 2:256]
12. Sword of the Intellect It is the sword of intellect. It is the sword that conquers the hearts and minds of the people. The Qur’an says: “Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious.” [Al-Qur’an:16:125]
13. Increase in the world religions from 1934 - 1984. An article in Readers digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. Which war took place in this century, which converted millions of people to Islam?
14. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe is Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?
15. Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson rightly says, “People who worry that nuclear weaponry will one day fall in the hands of the Arabs, fail to realize that the Islamic bomb has been dropped already, “it fell the day MUHAMMAD was born”. (Pbuh) ]
some sayings of prophet Mohammad”peace be upon Him”:

“Whoever kills a person who has a truce with the Muslims will never smell the fragrance of Paradise.” (Saheeh Muslim)
“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.” (Abu Dawud)

 

[JayHawes]

Consider the growth of all three religions.

1) Judaism did not force people to convert to Judaism, children were born into it.

2) Christanity did not force people to become Christian, they willingly converted.

3) The sucessors of Mohammed forced millions to convert or die.

 

[JayHawes]

What many dont understand is that the Inquisition and the Crusades were aprooved by the Pope, not by the teachings within the Bible. The Pope used the ignorance of his followers to his advantage. One of the main reasons the crusaders faught was becasue the Pope told them if they did so, They would be gaurenteed a spot in heaven. Of course the bible does not teach that if you fight for the Holy lands you'll go to heaven.

 

[maro]

The sucessors of Mohammed

being unable to say "muslims " or "islam " speaks volume

forced millions to convert or die.

really ? then what about the christians who are still living on the muslim land untill now ,
apparently ,their christian ancestors didn't convert , and didn't die either

when islam came to my country ,all egyptians were coptic christians ,the majority converted , while a minority kept their religion ,
and there are still coptic christians in egypt enjoying all their civil rights ,and hundreds of churches

 

[James the Persian]

and there are still coptic christians in egypt enjoying all their civil rights ,and hundreds of churches

This is an exaggeration. The Copts in Egypt are mistreated and discriminated against. They are often forbidden to even repair their churches when they fall into disrepair, they are still (particularly the girls) often forced to convert to Islam against their will and then killed if the convert back to Christianity because that makes them Apostates. Not for nothing do the Copts traditionally tattoo themselves with crosses and not for nothing are there so many of them living in exile in the west. If you want to prove how nice Islam and Muslims have been to Christians in the lands the Arabs conquered, you need a different example (and one i don't actually believe exists), because the Copts are not it. About the best treatment of Christians I now of in any Arab country is Syria (and formerly Iraq), but this is under a secular Baathist regime. Islam has always mistreated Christian and other dhimmis (even if at some times less severely than at others).

James

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

2) Christanity did not force people to become Christian, they willingly converted.

That is a grossly ignorant statement. The forced conversion of Jews is well documented.

 

[UnityNow101]

If Christians are being mistreated by Muslims in the Middle East, they are clearly working in contrary to the teachings of the Prophet.

"And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah. They do not sell the Verses of Allah for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, Allah is Swift in account" 3:199~ Holy Qu'ran

Certainly history shows that Judaism, Christianity and Islam have experienced periods of "forced" conversions and the vile treatment of people that did not believe in what was revealed by Moses, Jesus and Muhammed. The Prophet Muhammed never had the intention of taking up the sword to fight as he had always treated Christians and Jews with the utmost respect. It was not until they were heavily persecuted and attacked by the unbelievers that they fought in the path of Islam. And you must remember that Muhammed always attempted to take the peaceful route before actually going into battle. Look at how Makkah was finally taken by the Muslims..Without a drop of blood being shed upon the Holy City.