Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Election interference: Voters deserve to know whether one of the candidates is guilty of mishandling classified information.
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Judge Eileen Cannon dismisses Classified Documents case against Trump
- Thread starter Evangelicalhumanist
- Start date
We Never Know
No Slack
Well...do you not think the bold could be applied to Trump too or is Biden special?
How many have said Trumps memory and mental capacity is as bad or worse than Bidens?
"Special counsel Robert Hur has declined to prosecute President Joe Biden for his handling of classified documents but said in a report released Thursday that Biden’s practices “present serious risks to national security” and added that part of the reason he wouldn't charge Biden was that the president could portray himself as an "elderly man with a poor memory" who would be sympathetic to a jury."
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Hur's opinion here doesn't resonate with what is revealed in the transcript.
"While there were several moments during the interview when President Biden struggled to recall certain details, there were other times when the president related events, arguments he had made, and his daily practices in a seemingly precise manner. As Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.) noted during Hur’s testimony before the House Judiciary Committee, Hur at one point during the interview said in an exchange about President Biden’s Wilmington, Delaware, lake house that the president “appear[ed] to have a photographic understanding … and recall of the house.” Hur did not note that in his report.
Hur also seems to have characterized somewhat unfairly Biden’s recollection of the timing of his son Beau’s death, as others have written. While President Biden seems to have initially struggled to remember the year his son passed away, he said correctly that Beau died on May 30. And Biden’s momentary difficulty remembering the year his son died may have been due to his mixing up two different time periods when he was considering running for president—during only one of which Beau died. This exchange does not portray a perfect memory, but it appears more nuanced than Hur’s statement in his report that Biden “did not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau died.”
Further, while Hur writes that Biden’s “memory appeared hazy when describing the Afghanistan debate that was once so important to him,” Hur’s description of Biden’s recall of the policy debate in 2009 over whether the U.S. should conduct a surge in Afghanistan leaves out Biden’s recollection of a few important details that suggest he may remember the debate more accurately than Hur’s portrayal indicates.
While the report notes correctly that Biden mistakenly said during the interview that Gen. Karl Eikenberry believed the U.S. should surge troops into Afghanistan, Biden later corrected himself on Eikenberry’s views without prompting. Hur’s report left that out."
Biden Interview Transcript Reveals Some Flaws in the Hur Report
Robert Hur’s analysis of Biden’s “I just found all the classified stuff downstairs” does not engage with Biden’s explanation of the comment.
We Never Know
No Slack
Ok. Its seems you believe he judged the mentality of Biden wrong.Hur's opinion here doesn't resonate with what is revealed in the transcript.
"While there were several moments during the interview when President Biden struggled to recall certain details, there were other times when the president related events, arguments he had made, and his daily practices in a seemingly precise manner. As Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.) noted during Hur’s testimony before the House Judiciary Committee, Hur at one point during the interview said in an exchange about President Biden’s Wilmington, Delaware, lake house that the president “appear[ed] to have a photographic understanding … and recall of the house.” Hur did not note that in his report.
Hur also seems to have characterized somewhat unfairly Biden’s recollection of the timing of his son Beau’s death, as others have written. While President Biden seems to have initially struggled to remember the year his son passed away, he said correctly that Beau died on May 30. And Biden’s momentary difficulty remembering the year his son died may have been due to his mixing up two different time periods when he was considering running for president—during only one of which Beau died. This exchange does not portray a perfect memory, but it appears more nuanced than Hur’s statement in his report that Biden “did not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau died.”
Further, while Hur writes that Biden’s “memory appeared hazy when describing the Afghanistan debate that was once so important to him,” Hur’s description of Biden’s recall of the policy debate in 2009 over whether the U.S. should conduct a surge in Afghanistan leaves out Biden’s recollection of a few important details that suggest he may remember the debate more accurately than Hur’s portrayal indicates.
While the report notes correctly that Biden mistakenly said during the interview that Gen. Karl Eikenberry believed the U.S. should surge troops into Afghanistan, Biden later corrected himself on Eikenberry’s views without prompting. Hur’s report left that out."
Biden Interview Transcript Reveals Some Flaws in the Hur Report
Robert Hur’s analysis of Biden’s “I just found all the classified stuff downstairs” does not engage with Biden’s explanation of the comment.www.lawfaremedia.org
Does that mean Biden should have been charged then?
He did say "Biden’s practices “present serious risks to national security” then declined to charge him based on his mentality.
We Never Know
No Slack
Something I want to point out. IMO all the people complaing about Trump and Biden having classified documents isn't about laws, its all based on personal feelings of not liking, wanting to get rid of Trump and Biden.
I say that because Pence had some too but no one ever talks about that. Pence just faded off unnoticed with the sunset
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
I agree, a special council is not illegal, it was how Jack Smith was appointed that is in dispute.
Her likley goal is to delay things until Trump becomes Prez.
Then government is powerless to prosecute him.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
I am suggesting the report didn't give the whole picture. The report also clearly stated there wasn't enough evidence that he willfully retained the documents.
It also details the differences between Biden’s case and Trump's:
"Hur's report drew that distinction, saying, 'Most notably, after being given multiple chances to return classified documents and avoid prosecution, Mr. Trump allegedly did the opposite. According to the indictment, he not only refused to return the documents for many months, but he also obstructed justice by enlisting others to destroy evidence and then to lie about it.'
'In contrast,' the report said, 'Mr. Biden turned in classified documents to the National Archives and the Department of Justice, consented to the search of multiple locations including his homes, sat for a voluntary interview and in other ways cooperated with the investigation.'"
Special counsel won't charge Biden in classified docs probe, despite evidence he 'willfully retained' materials
Special counsel Robert Hur won't recommend charges against President Biden for his handling of classified documents,, despite evidence he "willfully retained" materials.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
You need to remember, Trump didn't just have the documents, he retained them after he was asked to return them, lied about having more, and had employees move them.
Pence and Biden cooperated when asked to return them.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
That is one way to look at this. However, by law a Special Council is supposed to be approve by Congress and also be a person who works inside Government. He is not supposed to be someone outside the government, who is brought; hired gun, apart from Congress. Mueller was a former head of the FBI and he was approved by Congress. This is how do it legally.
This was also example of a Congressional decision, being handed off to someone in the bureaucrat state; DOJ, with Congress never having voted on this. It violates the separation of powers, when you place the thumb on the scale of injustice, via bureaucratic law making.
The Supreme Court recently reduced the power of the bureaucratic state to bypass the Constitutional checks and balances of Congress; Chevron deference no longer applies. I heard that the Jan 6 Committee ran a similar scam; illegally formed committee, which is how it became so one sided. If you recall, the Republicans in Congress appointed their best for a fair Congressional trial, but the Democrats changed the fair trial into a kangaroo court by replacing those Congressional appointed Republicans with some token Republican Trump haters. The Presidential immunity case in the Supreme Court neutralize that, but there may have to be a Congressionally appointed investigation into this fascist lawless trend by the DNC.
If you think back now, the Russian Collusion scam used this technique, as well as the impeachment of Trump. Crooked people is why the Constitution has checks and balances. I would disbar all lawyers involved, including Congressmen, in any of this illegal scams. Lawyers and law can be used for crime, and the violators should be treated as crooks and indicted.
It is sad that cheat to win is the theme among the DNC loyalists.
We Never Know
No Slack
We all know Trump lied about his. But then again he said he declassified them.I am suggesting the report didn't give the whole picture. The report also clearly stated there wasn't enough evidence that he willfully retained the documents.
It also details the differences between Biden’s case and Trump's:
"Hur's report drew that distinction, saying, 'Most notably, after being given multiple chances to return classified documents and avoid prosecution, Mr. Trump allegedly did the opposite. According to the indictment, he not only refused to return the documents for many months, but he also obstructed justice by enlisting others to destroy evidence and then to lie about it.'
'In contrast,' the report said, 'Mr. Biden turned in classified documents to the National Archives and the Department of Justice, consented to the search of multiple locations including his homes, sat for a voluntary interview and in other ways cooperated with the investigation.'"
Special counsel won't charge Biden in classified docs probe, despite evidence he 'willfully retained' materials
Special counsel Robert Hur won't recommend charges against President Biden for his handling of classified documents,, despite evidence he "willfully retained" materials.abcnews.go.com
After seeing what happened to Trump, Biden and Pence gladly came forward and both gladly cooperated. That was a smart move on both.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Is there some rule that private citizens can't be appointed Special Prosecutor? Not.Weiss is a US attorney, nominated by Trump to the US district court of Delaware and retained by Biden.
Smith is a private citizen.
David C. Weiss - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
His credentials:
After graduating from law school, Smith joined the Manhattan District Attorney's office, serving as assistant district attorney. He was a member of the sex crimes and domestic violence units of the DA's office.[13] He joined the United States Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of New York in 1999.
From 2008 to 2010, Smith worked as investigation coordinator for the Office of the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court in The Hague, Netherlands.[17][15] In that position, he oversaw cases against government officials and militia members accused of war crimes and genocide.[7][14] In 2010, Smith returned to the U.S. to become chief of the U.S. Department of Justice's Public Integrity Section (PIN).[6][15] Among his first responsibilities was evaluating current investigations, and he recommended closing investigations into several members of Congress.[7][a] He spent five years as chief of PIN, where he prosecuted a variety of corruption cases, including those against Virginia governor Bob McDonnell, U.S. representative Rick Renzi, Jeffrey Sterling, a Central Intelligence Agency agent who shared national secrets,[18][15] New York State Assembly speaker Sheldon Silver,[19] and North Carolina Senator John Edwards.[20]
In 2015, Smith became an assistant U.S. attorney in the Middle District of Tennessee, at Nashville.[22][15] He became the acting U.S. attorney in March 2017 upon the resignation of David Rivera, and resigned effective September 2017 after the nomination of Donald Q. Cochran.[23]
In May 7, 2018, Smith was named to a four-year term as chief prosecutor for the Kosovo Specialist Chambers in The Hague, investigating war crimes in the Kosovo War.[13][14][22] During his time as the chief prosecutor, he brought charges against several individuals, including Salih Mustafa[25][26][27] and the sitting President of Kosovo, Hashim Thaçi.[28] He took up the post on September 11, 2018, and was appointed to a second term on May 8, 2022, before stepping down on November 18, 2022.[29]
We Never Know
No Slack
They all three had classified documents in their possession when they shouldn't have. Trump didn't cooperate, Biden and Pence did.
They all three were guilty of the same thing. Cooperating doesn't equal innocence.
No, what you wrote is incorrect where you wrote that a Special Counsel is "just a lawyer hired to prosecute special cases". 5 USC PART II, CHAPTER 12, SUBCHAPTER II: OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL states that "The Special Counsel shall be appointed by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, for a term of 5 years." Jack Smith never had any advice nor consent from the Senate.
We Never Know
No Slack
Not if they are appointed/approved in the way they are supposed to be. Smith wasn't.
That's been addressed in the thread already.
See post #23
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
They were guilty of having them, not of willful retention. There's a difference. Cooperation does equal innocence in this case, because the guilt is in non-cooperation.
Hur's report actually makes the distinction.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
We Never Know
No Slack
Its a crime to remove them and have them without proper authorization.
Cooperation usually lessens the penalty, not give innocence.
We Never Know
No Slack
You do realize things have changed since Nixon's watergate don't you. New laws and statues have been written. I even think Watergate was a reason for them.
Edit....
Here's one...it has since expired but other steps have been taken.
Ethics in Government Act
"Inspired in part by Watergate, in 1978 Congress passed the Ethics in Government Act. Title VI of this act was known as the Special Prosecutor Act and later renamed the Independent Counsel Act, which established formal rules for the appointment of a special prosecutor."
Special counsel - Wikipedia
Last edited:
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
And apparently authorities deemed cooperation sufficient to not press charges. That Trump did not cooperate despite plenty of time and attempts to have him return the documents freely changes the scenerio.
Like, I don't quite get the disconnect here. If we are, as voters, choosing between the qualifications of two candidates, doesn't this show a clear difference?
As someone who works on legally confidential paperwork (student IEPs), I often bring these things home to work on them. A President is likely no different. Pence and Biden were found to have these things when they shouldn't have but cooperated with authorities to the extent that even Robert Hur couldn't justify pressing charges. Trump did not cooperate despite multiple attempts to get him to do so.