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Judge Eileen Cannon dismisses Classified Documents case against Trump

We Never Know

No Slack
And apparently authorities deemed cooperation sufficient to not press charges. That Trump did not cooperate despite plenty of time and attempts to have him return the documents freely changes the scenerio.

Like, I don't quite get the disconnect here. If we are, as voters, choosing between the qualifications of two candidates, doesn't this show a clear difference?

As someone who works on legally confidential paperwork (student IEPs), I often bring these things home to work on them. A President is likely no different. Pence and Biden were found to have these things when they shouldn't have but cooperated with authorities to the extent that even Robert Hur couldn't justify pressing charges. Trump did not cooperate despite multiple attempts to get him to do so.
I do not think Pence and Biden wouldn't have been so cooperative if the big stink about Trump wasn't made. They saw what was happening to Trump, both thought oh **** Trump was caught, and then they opened up their doors.
I say that because after Trump the focus got turned to them.

The document ship was sinking. Trump went down with the ship. Pence and Biden jumped off.
 
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wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Election interference: Voters deserve to know whether one of the candidates is guilty of mishandling classified information.
I heard that Elon Musk is going to donate something like $70 million per month to the RNC. He had done the same for the Democrats in 2020. Since that time the DNC reneged on their promise to give him an electric production car bonus. He made the millstones but the DNC crooks stiffed him.

His target for the money is to help the RNC get out the early vote; mail in ballots and ballot harvesting legally. His donation to the DNC in 2020 gave the DNC this advantage. Now the RNC will not be at a disadvantage. Trump has changes his position on this; adaptable.

The RNC usually waits to election day to vote and gets stung by DNC's delays, late votes and other games. Now the goal is to get an early head start which will cause many of the Democrats to stay home on election day. Early voting is now more secure. The voting machines are less likely to be overloaded with a trickle in of early votes and with more scrutiny. The DNC is screwed which is why there is desperation and reaching for straws.
 

We Never Know

No Slack

I do suggest to get off Nixon and what happened 50 years ago and go with current

The question should be did appointing him violate the appointment clause and if so is the ruling just

"The Appointments Clause requires that “Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the Supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States” be appointed by the President subject to the advice and consent of the Senate, although Congress may vest the appointment of “inferior” officers “in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.” 1 The Supreme Court has interpreted these requirements as distinguishing between two types of officers: (1) “principal” officers who must be appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate to their position, and (2) “inferior” officers, whose appointment Congress may place with the President, judiciary, or department heads.


 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
Too, too right. My partner's and my best friend is American (from Schenectady, NY), but lives here now because he married a Canadian girl and brings up his son as a Canadian (actually, the son did have dual citizenship, but has recently renounced his U.S. citizenship). Our friend retains his dual c-ship, and has already done the paperwork to vote from here. He is absolutely mortified at what's going on, and working towards bring other members of his family here. They are beginning to sense a doom they can't get a leash on somehow.

Americans who really love "liberty" (those who understand what it really is, not the freedom to preach in other people's faces and dictate to others how they should live) have my deep sympathy, because if things go the way the appear to be going, it is going to set not just the U.S. but the world back in the fight for liberty by decades -- many, many decades.

Very very well said.

That "sense of doom" I recognize in myself. It's like all countries, empires and cultures have some kind of built in "expiry date" and they are going to expire no matter how we try to stop or delay it. Once the British Empire seemed (at least in the minds of British people) to be set to last for ever. No doubt the ancient Romans felt the same. Now it the turn of the USA. It's almost as if there's some kind of mysterious force that controls everything and against which we are helpless. I tell myself that I'm a rational person and don't believe in that kind of silliness, but then yet another attempt to reverse the decline hits an unforeseen barrier and the feeling comes back.

I'm not sure even a Biden victory in November will be anything more than a temporary slowing of the inevitable.

Please tell me I'm being silly, I need to hear it.
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
There is also this...

"Barbara McQuade, a former U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan, said on Monday in a post to X, formerly Twitter, that Cannon's decision may lead to the documents case being revived through an appeal that could see her thrown off of the case.

"Dismissal of Trump documents case may actually be good news for Jack Smith, who can now immediately appeal to 11th Circuit and ask for case to be reassigned to a new judge," McQuade wrote. "But more delay ..."


One can only hope.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
And apparently authorities deemed cooperation sufficient to not press charges. That Trump did not cooperate despite plenty of time and attempts to have him return the documents freely changes the scenerio.

Like, I don't quite get the disconnect here. If we are, as voters, choosing between the qualifications of two candidates, doesn't this show a clear difference?

As someone who works on legally confidential paperwork (student IEPs), I often bring these things home to work on them. A President is likely no different. Pence and Biden were found to have these things when they shouldn't have but cooperated with authorities to the extent that even Robert Hur couldn't justify pressing charges. Trump did not cooperate despite multiple attempts to get him to do so.
The two difference is a President has the authority to declassify anything. Biden's classified information dated back to when he was Senator and VP and he had no such authority. Obama never said he declassified anything for him when VP. Biden had his classified data for at least 12 years; 8 years as VP and 4 years of Trump plus time in Senate. Trump on the other hand, had it a matter of months. What took so long to target Biden and would he have ever been targeted if the DNC did not start this trend? Biden did not give it up until it became political.

If this was about fairness and justice Biden should have more pressure put on him and not less.

Below is a link to President Clinton's Digital Library of Declassified Information. If you want to see once classified information that a President declassified, this is one place to look. Some classified information expires with age and is only important when fresh. But it can be a memory of the good ole days of spy versus spy.

Declassified Documents · Clinton Digital Library
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
Nope, do you care if someone is illegally prosecuted even if they are guilty? Or do the ends justify the means?

That's a good question.

In general, I believe the rules should be followed, even though they sometimes allow guilty people to go free. Do the ends justify the means? What ends and what means? The problem I see is that where one side follows the rules and one doesn't. It gives the "bad" guys an advantage and tempts the "good" guys to descend to their level.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
And apparently authorities deemed cooperation sufficient to not press charges. That Trump did not cooperate despite plenty of time and attempts to have him return the documents freely changes the scenerio.

Like, I don't quite get the disconnect here. If we are, as voters, choosing between the qualifications of two candidates, doesn't this show a clear difference?

As someone who works on legally confidential paperwork (student IEPs), I often bring these things home to work on them. A President is likely no different. Pence and Biden were found to have these things when they shouldn't have but cooperated with authorities to the extent that even Robert Hur couldn't justify pressing charges. Trump did not cooperate despite multiple attempts to get him to do so.
Trump is charged with taking/retaing classified documents with him after he left the White House and obstructing government efforts to retrieve them.

Biden and Pence are guilty of taking/retaing classified documents with them after they left the White House. Yes they cooperated which is why they aren't guilty of obstructing government efforts to retrieve them.

For the record, IMO, they all three should be prosecuted for taking/retaing classified documents with them after they left the White House.

Pence was smart to walk away quietly since the investigation has labeled Trump as a criminal and Biden as not mentally fit.
Pence received neither label.
 
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Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Trump is charged with taking/retaing classified documents with him after he left the White House and obstructing government efforts to retrieve them.

"
Trump (37 counts):[1]

31 counts of retaining and failing to deliver national defense documents under the Espionage Act.
Each of these charges is for possession of a separate, specific document. Ten of these documents were handed over to the government in June 2022, and the other 21 were recovered in the August 2022 search.[41] According to the indictment, the 31 documents describe U.S. nuclear weapons; foreign military attacks, plans, capabilities, and effects on U.S. interests; foreign nuclear capabilities; foreign support for terrorist activity; communications with foreign leaders; U.S. military activities; White House daily foreign intelligence briefings; potential vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attack; and plans for possible retaliation in response to a foreign attack.[42]
5 counts relating to conspiracy to obstruct justice and withholding documents and records[1]
1 count of making false statements."


Biden and Pence are guilty of taking/retaing classified documents with them after they left the White House. Yes they cooperated which is why they aren't guilty of obstructing government efforts to retrieve them.

For the record, IMO, they all three should be prosecuted for taking/retaing classified documents with them after they left the White House.

They might be guilty, but does it warrant charging them? Grace in acceptable instances of making mistakes in the course of one's employment is normal. Do you think people aren't allowed to make mistakes?

It does show that maybe something needs to change in how these documents are handled in general.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
The two difference is a President has the authority to declassify anything. Biden's classified information dated back to when he was Senator and VP and he had no such authority. Obama never said he declassified anything for him when VP. Biden had his classified data for at least 12 years; 8 years as VP and 4 years of Trump plus time in Senate. Trump on the other hand, had it a matter of months. What took so long to target Biden and would he have ever been targeted if the DNC did not start this trend? Biden did not give it up until it became political.

If this was about fairness and justice Biden should have more pressure put on him and not less.

Below is a link to President Clinton's Digital Library of Declassified Information. If you want to see once classified information that a President declassified, this is one place to look. Some classified information expires with age and is only important when fresh. But it can be a memory of the good ole days of spy versus spy.

Declassified Documents · Clinton Digital Library

Did Trump declassify them when he was President or did he just say he did when he was caught with them?
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Let's talk about the 12 MILLION dollars plus some that Smith has racked up so far.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
This is a legal prosecution. Cannon’s ridiculous ruling will be overturned in the 11 circuit. I guarantee it.
I was listening to the Meidas Report and they went over how it could have been much worse. Smith was obviously waiting for Cannon to cross the line with her obvious pro-Trump bias and she finally did it. She could have made matters much worse by ruling on various topics that could have each individually given cause for Smith to file an appeal. She avoided written directives as much as possible because she knew that she could be removed based on those. And if she had ruled on those some might not have been quite enough for Smith to appeal. As it is now all of those non-rulings means that her delays of the trial by not dealing with them means that those bad actions of hers will not affect the next judge at all.

The trial may not be done before the election, but it could begin before the election. We will have to see what happens.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
I was listening to the Meidas Report and they went over how it could have been much worse. Smith was obviously waiting for Cannon to cross the line with her obvious pro-Trump bias and she finally did it. She could have made matters much worse by ruling on various topics that could have each individually given cause for Smith to file an appeal. She avoided written directives as much as possible because she knew that she could be removed based on those. And if she had ruled on those some might not have been quite enough for Smith to appeal. As it is now all of those non-rulings means that her delays of the trial by not dealing with them means that those bad actions of hers will not affect the next judge at all.

The trial may not be done before the election, but it could begin before the election. We will have to see what happens.
Thankfully she was too stupid to seat a jury THEN dismiss the case. It could not be appealed then because that would have been double jeopardy. "I'll take Corruption for $1000, Alex."
 
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We Never Know

No Slack
I am suggesting the report didn't give the whole picture. The report also clearly stated there wasn't enough evidence that he willfully retained the documents.

It also details the differences between Biden’s case and Trump's:

"Hur's report drew that distinction, saying, 'Most notably, after being given multiple chances to return classified documents and avoid prosecution, Mr. Trump allegedly did the opposite. According to the indictment, he not only refused to return the documents for many months, but he also obstructed justice by enlisting others to destroy evidence and then to lie about it.'

'In contrast,' the report said, 'Mr. Biden turned in classified documents to the National Archives and the Department of Justice, consented to the search of multiple locations including his homes, sat for a voluntary interview and in other ways cooperated with the investigation.'"


One last thought....

Lets say Biden had been charged.
If his performance at the trial was on par with his performance at the debate do you think that the jury wouldn't be "sympathetic and see him as a elderly man with a poor memory"
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
One last thought....

Lets say Biden had been charged.
If his performance at the trial was on par with his performance at the debate do you think that the jury wouldn't be "sympathetic and see him as a elderly man with a poor memory"
Maybe for the initial act. But not if he was told to return the documents and did not. To the point where the government had to get a subpoena to get them back. And even worse, after that he still kept some of them and even tried to hide them, and was moving the documents that he was supposed to have returned when subpoenaed and all of the various other evidence that shows that shows that he knew exactly what he as doing wrong.

No, if this was Biden the Democrats would have dropped him and the Republicans would have been howling for his blood.
 
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