Just Accidental?

[Hockeycowboy]

a book that contained god, demons, magic and miracles, have nothing to do with being "objective".

What, you think all instances of paranormal activity is fake? All of it?!!

Granted, much of it is -- maybe even 80 to 90% -- is fake, but there are just too many occurrences to disregard all of them! It would border on naïveté to think all are false.

 

[sayak83]

You think the existing framework in the biological sciences, i.e., natural selection and mutations currently detailed by Darwinian evolution, furnishes satisfactory answers in explaining the diversity of body plans observed in the fossil record since the Cambrian Explosion and up to those extant now?

Absolutely. In every respect.

As a practicing scientist I understand the methodology of science and understand quite well what is science and what is merely masquerading as one. A layman can be easily fooled by a cleverly forged article, be it a false diamond or a forged painting. A jeweler or an art expert is not so easily fooled. The situation regarding ID is similar. I, and almost all scientist know its a fake designed specifically to fool ordinary folks through false scientific trappings.

Understand, that as a Hindu, I am quite open to the idea of there being the possibility of transcendental reality that can be experienced. Though I am not very sympathetic to your brand of literalist Christianity. But the main issue for me is not the conclusions here, but the egregiously dishonest manner in which certain organizations are trying create counterfeit science to fool the people.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

We can measure God's existence by the evidence that is all around us....the stuff you assume is accidental.
We measure God by what we observe in creation...by the tenacity of life itself. A weed growing in the cracks of the pavement is testimony to how tenacious life really is....designed to take all opportunities to self replicate even against the odds, to perpetuate their species.



Oh, but God's existence IS in the realm of human experience. We have written testimony by eye witnesses who saw the operation of God's spirit in miraculous ways, in many different times and in many different encounters. How is their testimony any less valid than a bunch of bones in a rock? Each one needs an interpreter. Each ones interpreter exhibits bias in the translation of that evidence. Science has no advantage over ID.....they are simply better at marketing it.

How come we haven't seen any of these "miracles" occur since the invention of video cameras?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

What, you think all instances of paranormal activity is fake? All of it?!!

Granted, much of it is -- maybe even 80 to 90% -- is fake, but there are just too many occurrences to disregard all of them! It would border on naïveté to think all are false.

Many, if not most, people who claim to have experienced the paranormal are being perfectly honest. However, most of their experiences are not attributable to supernatural causes. For instance, entities seen in photographs that look like ghosts often turn out to be bugs moving across the camera. Also, there is apparently some form of hallucinogenic mold that tends to grow in old houses, leading people to believe they are experiencing "hauntings" when really they are hallucinating.

 

[Deeje]

How come we haven't seen any of these "miracles" occur since the invention of video cameras?

The miracles of the first century were only a demonstration of what was to come in the future under the rulership of God's kingdom. (Revelation 21:2-5) Once the word was out that Jesus and his followers could cure the sick and raise the dead, people came to see for themselves if this was true. When they found out that it was, they believed that he was the promised Messiah, and told others, hence Christianity began to grow.....it has grown ever since, but true to prophesy, in the wrong direction. The miracles are no longer practiced and they disappeared long before video cameras were ever thought about.

Please don't think for a moment that any modern day miracles are genuine indications of the operation of God's spirit....the "traits of a spiritual child" (the need to see miracles) were replaced with something much harder to fake....genuine Christian love. (John 13:34-35; 1 Corinthians 13:8-13)

 

[Hockeycowboy]

How come we haven't seen any of these "miracles" occur since the invention of video cameras?

Funny you mentioned video cameras.

One video out of this compilation -- the woman in the room by herself w/ those tables and chairs -- I have no idea how it could have been faked!

This activity certainly wasn't caused by God, but other spirit forces. And they happen regularly, especially in areas where ancestor worship is carried on.

(If this has been debunked, tell me how and provide references, please.)

 

[Hockeycowboy]

.....an iron age text.....

If it's from God, what would you expect? Manuscripts that are new? It would've had to have been around awhile, and still contain information that is beneficial for modern living. And voila! It does! Imagine that!

modern science is completely wrong

This is a strawman. Not all modern science is biology. I can speak for Deeje: Only in this category of biology -- ie., macroevolution, with its descent with modification -- is it completely wrong. Please, don't be disingenuous. MICROevolution is fact; but to extend this further, saying organisms develop from mutations or some other mechanism into higher taxa, is a fantasy.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

However, most of their experiences are not attributable to supernatural causes.

You said "most", not "all".

And that's exactly what I said, even possibly up to 90% fake. But there's the other 10% percent that are "attributable to supernatural causes."

And it's not for no reason, that I mentioned 'ancestor worship'; that's actually related to supernatural events, tho most religious people probably wouldn't appreciate what the Bible really says on the subject.

I can try to briefly explain what I mean, if you're interested.

 

[loverofhumanity]

These are a few different species of ducks....one can only marvel at their artistic designs and color schemes.

Who could possibly think that these just evolved and turned out like this through the process of gene mutations and adaptation? What survival advantage is there in being this beautiful?

I think there's a point where we just call a design a design and not be in denial about everything that points to a creator.

If we are unintelligent beings then yes your post was nothing meaningful just a conglomeration of atoms and I was just reading a post where there was none but that would be going overboard and unrealistic.

There's enough organization in nature and the universe to confidently say there is an Organiser. But each own.

 

[ArtieE]

The world as it is today, with all of our technology and advancements, is degenerating into a cess pit of unrelenting violence, unimaginable cruelty and disgusting immorality, in an age where we should expect to see advancements in knowledge, intellectual appreciation and greater understanding of human behavior.

Have you checked on the internet?

"You Think the World Is Going to Hell in 2016? It's Actually Getting Better."
http://forward.com/opinion/328975/y...-to-hell-in-2016-its-actually-getting-better/
http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_1084_18-undeniable-facts-that-prove-world-getting-better/
http://www.planetaid.org/blog/9-signs-that-show-the-planet-is-getting-better

 

[savagewind]

Have you checked on the internet?

"You Think the World Is Going to Hell in 2016? It's Actually Getting Better."
http://forward.com/opinion/328975/y...-to-hell-in-2016-its-actually-getting-better/
http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_1084_18-undeniable-facts-that-prove-world-getting-better/
http://www.planetaid.org/blog/9-signs-that-show-the-planet-is-getting-better

Of course, it is getting better. It is hard for me to stomach that nations protect religions that in my mind are what hold back progress.

I had realised that the religion I know of and write about is a danger to peace and to progress by God, but the article brings out that the belief that the world is getting worse makes it worse and it is what the Bible SEEMS TO teach. For me, it is proof that the Bible can be good because even though it is in the hands of reactionary conservatism it is the best thing we have imo. Can we fix it, or can only God fix it by eliminating badness like they teach God will do? The solution, I think, is to fix what we can. We won't and that is what is causing the deadlock, I am sure. I can see that the world is starving and they won't bring back the food. The reason why is ALL reactionary conservatism.

If I was running the world, I would treat religion like a business. Make them pay. It will be just too bad for the little guys. Some of them are so cute!

Mostly, though, the belief that things are getting worse and worse tilts us in the direction of reactionary conservatism.

Such selective ....... utopias favor those who are doing the dreaming. More than that: they favor the dreamers’ dreams (and nightmares) rather than their rational faculties.

 

[savagewind]

Oh bother. Off topic. But is it? @ArtieE led me off topic. Why not blame him?

Evolution is change. THEY teach that God wants things to remain the same.

There you go, back on topic. I really should get a point. (A point is a bad thing).

(The first article is very good and true, imo.) I didn't read the other two. Will they get me in trouble too?

 

[savagewind]

I think that what I am saying is that peace and the will of God are not force majeure like they say it will be. To teach such is to teach reactionary conservatism. You all should tell her to look THAT up.

Just like small changes in a life form make life beautiful, small changes in hearts make a beautiful world.
Religion makes men's changes in hearts. That is not going to work. If she could agree with me, I think she would.

To deny evolution as a force for good is to deny small changes are good.
Religions teach BIG change and begrudge small change. This is a bad thing imo.

 

[ArtieE]

Oh bother. Off topic. But is it? @ArtieE led me off topic. Why not blame him?

I just answered deeje. She initiated the thread.

 

[savagewind]

I just answered deeje. She initiated the thread.

Thank you. Then, I suppose, SHE should get a point.

See, how she calls me a troll and then I am?

I like to please people.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

See, I was right...you don't 'sincerely' wish what you stated. Otherwise, you'd have at least considered the validity of the evidence advanced, not the messenger of it.

The important thing here is that just because you believe something doesn't mean that this something must be true.

That goes without saying! But it's the quality of the statement that matters, not who said it! If Capt. Kangaroo made a scientific statement that agrees with accepted understanding, I'd at least consider it. And I would definitely be open to hear even more of his statements. That is being open-minded.

In the grand scheme of things, mankind knows very little. Why should he be so arrogant, to dismiss out of hand what could increase his understanding, and might even be beneficial?

I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about the Bible, not the same thing. Because you can't blame the Bible for religions' failure.

 

[savagewind]

I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about the Bible, not the same thing. Because you can't blame the Bible for religions' failure.

I think that actually you can.

 

[savagewind]

You can't blame The Holy Spirit for religions' failures.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

You can't blame The Holy Spirit for religions' failures.

We could cite it as evidence that the holy spirit doesn't have the capability it perhaps requires for its stated purpose. What good is it if the religions still fail at their goal?

 

[savagewind]

We could cite it as evidence that the holy spirit doesn't have the capability it perhaps requires for its stated purpose. What good is it if the religions still fail at their goal?

I think God never promised the world good.

Cite what as evidence? What is "it"?

The failure of religion?