Just Addressing Yet Another Absurd, Dishonest Atheistic Argument

[Curious George]

Possible, but seems at this point highly statistically unlikely.

Remember, there are atheists and then there are atheists (forum posting atheists). It's the atheists who are unaccountably rude. Well, not unaccountably. It's a spiritual "off ness". No offense meant, by the way.

Wouldn't it seem statistically unlikely if you were in fact counting the misses and ignoring the hits?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Possible, but seems at this point highly statistically unlikely.

Remember, there are atheists and then there are atheists (forum posting atheists). It's the atheists who are unaccountably rude. Well, not unaccountably. It's a spiritual "off ness". No offense meant, by the way.

You aren't exactly projecting a positive image of Christianity yourself.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I've never heard any claim that the authors of Luke, Matthew, John, Mark, who ever they were wrote the gospels for the chicks, cash and fame. Since we don't know who they really were. There's no biography's for these authors. Any claims about their motivations in those regards can be dismissed.

I speak of my own faults, failings, and hurts. I'll make a prediction that you'll respond to my post.

So am I now trustworthy enough to speak for God.

You can look through my posts, probably get a pretty good idea of my motivations and ask me questions. You know way more about me then any biblical author, which really isn't much, and you could still be wrong about my motivations. Yet you are more willing to trust claims about God from folks you know nothing about.

Your certainty is a lie. Your certainty is a feeling nothing more. We all want certainty and "religions", religious leaders understand this and pretend they can provide certainty.

Folks are so desperate to feel certainty that they are willing, you are willing to sacrifice everything for it.

You will go to heaven and have a wonderful time and God will love you so much and you are certain of these things.

It's everything you could wish for. Who needs critical self examination of what we really know as long as you can feel certain?

Look, I can't make you question your feelings but facts don't care about your feelings. They certainly don't care about my feelings.

You are willing to sacrifice everything for you beliefs except perhaps your feeling of certainty.

As an atheist I have sacrificed my feeling of certainty. I am willing to admit, there's a lot of damn things I don't know.

If you want to sacrifice your life, your family so you can feel certain about your beliefs I can't stop you. I can however suggest prior to these great sacrifices you are willing to give so you can feel certain that God loves you, that you sacrifice your feeling of certainty.

You are either assumptive or reading my mind and heart? Which is it? Do you believe in the psychic ability to read my mind and tell me my motivations?

Or are you playing amateur psychologist, which is worse?

I DID THE WORK. I thought about and researched this incredible journey with Jesus and thought long and hard before committing to a lifetime of hassle by people with their feet in shallower waters.

"Shove me in the shallow water, before I . . . before I get too deep."

I was not "desperate to have certainty". I was desperate to not have to be a Christian and follow Jesus! But as an adult reading the scriptures and then exploring the issues, in the Bible and outside the Bible, I felt led, compelled. I really didn't want to spend my life talking to people who hassle me for telling them the truth. But those were my cards, and I'm playing them.

I'll tell you what I didn't do, however, I didn't come to some forum and hassle and humiliate religious people while I knew only a little about Jesus Christ and His followers.

It obviously makes you feel relieved to tell me my "real reasons" for believing using your psychic abilities. That's easier than thinking, "Wow, if there is a God, I'm judged. Now what?"

 

[BilliardsBall]

What a horrid world view you have.

I think you are confusing the fact that you and I do horrid things with all people being completely depraved. They are not.

But I know as do you that you've done acts that shame you. If you remain unashamed, you've closed down your conscience. That "people reality" points me toward Jesus.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I cited the reference so that anybody who chooses can go look at the context themselves.

Your reference was not cited, but it came from the book of Psalms. Shall I quote some more of that wonderful book -- Psalms 137:9 for example?

Again, you trimming a verse to a few words from it when there's an entire passage is silly. Your quotation in context referred to the fact that calling people fool instead of @#@#$@#$ is still enough for Hell. It's referring to the holiness of God and our lack of same!

 

[BilliardsBall]

Of course it's hate speech. Nothing you wrote changes that. Substitute Jew or African-American.

"The Jew is corrupt, their deeds vile"

"But the fearful, and Jews, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, and all and the enemy of a good god."

"Do not be yoked together with Jews. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"-

"Who is the liar? It is the Jew who denies that Jesus is the Christ."

"The Jew is against me"

Good choice on your part to ignore the whole rest of the argument, focus on only one of five scriptures, and only the part that you think doesn't single out atheists. You have no defense for the rest of the argument.

Kind of a weak argument to make to me, being a Jew myself.

All persons are both good and evil. Your posts and responses confirm both to me.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You don't want atheists to be loving; you want atheists to be saps.

Saps or strong backbone, I still can't see atheists coming to religious forums to mock and hassle, and hardly to learn!

 

[BilliardsBall]

Now you're back-peddling. Your earlier comments did not include Christians. It was pure atheophobic bigotry regarding what Christians but no atheist could do regarding human interactions.

Are you beginning to feel any shame or remorse for your comments? I doubt it. You're a died-in-the-wool atheophobe.

No, as a sidebar, Christians can love their enemies. Atheists cannot. WHY NOT TRY IT SINCE YOU'VE NEVER DONE IT?

 

[BilliardsBall]

If this is really what you believe, then I have pity for you.

... and that stopping your religion from spreading any more is a worthwhile goal.

I didn't see we're both all bad. Do you know someone other than Jesus who's never done something shameful? Let's start with you and I. I've done things I don't tell other people, sometime in my life. You? Be honest. Be consistent.

I dislike when atheists plead goodness, especially as it smacks of absolutes.

 

[Nakosis]

You are either assumptive or reading my mind and heart? Which is it? Do you believe in the psychic ability to read my mind and tell me my motivations?

Or are you playing amateur psychologist, which is worse?

No, nothing as personal as that.

On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You're Not - Robert A. Burton

I DID THE WORK. I thought about and researched this incredible journey with Jesus and thought long and hard before committing to a lifetime of hassle by people with their feet in shallower waters.

"Shove me in the shallow water, before I . . . before I get too deep."

I was not "desperate to have certainty". I was desperate to not have to be a Christian and follow Jesus! But as an adult reading the scriptures and then exploring the issues, in the Bible and outside the Bible, I felt led, compelled. I really didn't want to spend my life talking to people who hassle me for telling them the truth. But those were my cards, and I'm playing them.

I'll tell you what I didn't do, however, I didn't come to some forum and hassle and humiliate religious people while I knew only a little about Jesus Christ and His followers.

Are you certain about that?

It obviously makes you feel relieved to tell me my "real reasons" for believing using your psychic abilities. That's easier than thinking, "Wow, if there is a God, I'm judged. Now what?"

Nope, I've been exactly were you are now. I get it, you're playing the cards you've been dealt. Just saying maybe it's time to look for a new dealer.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You don't need to be a scholar. It is obvious that this is the claim.

So, did He die and rose for me? Is that really a bid deal?

If I would be able to rose, I would die and rose for anyone. Anytime. Much more difficult to do that if the rising after the weekend scenario is uncertain.

So, who is more worthy of admiration? Someone who dies knowing in advance that he will rise in full glory as the Master of the Universe, or someone who dies, say for his country, and stays dead?



I am not mean. I love the believer, but I hate the belief. A bit like God with sinners and sin.

Well, I don't hate it really. Sometimes i think it is a tad funny.

Ciao

- viole

We've discussed this before. Is sweating blood a big deal? Is giving up fellowship with the Father to spend some time in the abyss a big deal? Is taking on the sin of every person a big deal? Having your beard plucked from your face? Being stripped, beaten, scourged, spat upon?

Is crucifixion through the wrists and feet "no big deal"? Be real. I ain't volunteering to be crucified to show you how easy redemption was.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I don't believe you. Your behaviour in this thread has not been indicative of love.

Who comes over on e-mail the right way? Very few people. But for all I know, you're one of those people who's spat upon me or tried to assault me while I witnessing to you--and I've forgiven and love you. Which enemies have you ever loved?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Wouldn't it seem statistically unlikely if you were in fact counting the misses and ignoring the hits?

This isn't my first rodeo. I've witnessed to literally thousands of people and watched the USA grow more atheist and also more degenerate. I've dealt with thousands of atheists and agnostics, in groups and as individuals.

The Bible explains what skeptics are like. The Bible has proved accurate in my (statisically significant) anecdotal experience.

I'm still yet to meet atheists who love their enemies and persecutors. Quite the opposite, actually.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You aren't exactly projecting a positive image of Christianity yourself.

What would you consider a positive image? Lying down and listening reverently to atheists blaspheme on forums? That's not quite what I got from the biblical prophets and Christ!

 

[Thumper]

I think you are confusing the fact that you and I do horrid things with all people being completely depraved. They are not.

But I know as do you that you've done acts that shame you. If you remain unashamed, you've closed down your conscience. That "people reality" points me toward Jesus.

You don't know me and your accusations of what kind of person I am are baseless and crude. I am an ethical Humanist and do not, could never "do horrid things" nor consider "all people being completely depraved."

Your view of humanity is sick. If that's what your beliefs have taught you, you really should find better beliefs.

 

[viole]

We've discussed this before. Is sweating blood a big deal? Is giving up fellowship with the Father to spend some time in the abyss a big deal? Is taking on the sin of every person a big deal? Having your beard plucked from your face? Being stripped, beaten, scourged, spat upon?

There are people who went through much worse than that. In war for their country, for instance. And they do not retun alive and kicking after a few days.

Is crucifixion through the wrists and feet "no big deal"? Be real. I ain't volunteering to be crucified to show you how easy redemption was.

Well, then say that he got tortured for me. And not that he died for me. Because the latter is not impressing at all.

By the way, why are you not volunteering? If you knew you would return as the Master of the Universe in full glory and all, wouldn't you do that provisional sacrifice for all humanity?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Revoltingest]

I've witnessed to literally thousands of people and watched the USA grow more atheist and also more degenerate.

A correlation...are you sure you're not causing it?

Btw, I can guarantee I've never abused you when you were out a'witness'n.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I didn't see we're both all bad. Do you know someone other than Jesus who's never done something shameful?

Why do you say that Jesus has never done anything shameful? He's described doing some pretty nasty things in the Bible.

Let's start with you and I. I've done things I don't tell other people, sometime in my life. You? Be honest. Be consistent.

I dislike when atheists plead goodness, especially as it smacks of absolutes.

If you expect the person you're trying to have a fight with to open up to you, you're going to be disappointed.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What would you consider a positive image? Lying down and listening reverently to atheists blaspheme on forums? That's not quite what I got from the biblical prophets and Christ!

For starters, one thing that would help is basic respect and courtesy.

And just because a prophet (supposedly) did it doesn't mean it was positive, so that might not be the best yardstick to measure your own actions against.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Who comes over on e-mail the right way? Very few people.

You're coming across much worse than most.

But for all I know, you're one of those people who's spat upon me or tried to assault me while I witnessing to you--and I've forgiven and love you.

Again: your actions suggest that you don't love me.

I've never spat on or assaulted a proselytizer. I've said "I'm not interested" or occasionally "I mean it - leave me alone," but that's it.

Which enemies have you ever loved?

I'm very selective on who I consider an enemy. It's a label I've only ever applied to a few people.

And if you're going around referring to people as "enemy", I question whether you actually love them. Speaking for myself, I don't call anyone I love "enemy."