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Just War Theory

Which type of War Hawk are you?

  • absolute pacifist

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • dovish

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • hawkish

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • realpolitik

    Votes: 2 20.0%

  • Total voters
    10

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Just War Theory

To put it simple, Just War theory attempts to identify the circumstances under which a war would be just. Therefore, it consists of two parts. While Just War theory confesses that killing is, in its general sense, morally improper, it also tries to characterise conditions in which the killing of others becomes a moral obligation. Having recognised that war is inevitable among states and will lead to deaths, Just War theory also attempts to envisage how the use of arms might be controlled, made more humane, and eventually directed towards establishing lasting peace and justice. In brief, just war is countering evil with the lesser evil.

Many scholars of International Relations Theory believe that there is no Just War ‘theory’ as such and there are actually as many Just War theories as the number of the people who judge the wars. Since it is so relative a concept, according to how people justify wars, one can categorise the spectrum of just war into four categories. Those who believe no war can be justified by any means and in any situation are ‘absolute pacifists’. Those who suppose some wars justly fought can be found in the history are ‘dovish’ and those who consider few wars in the history as unjust are ‘hawkish’. In the last ‘realpolitik’ category raison d'état is what drives the realists. Consequently, any strategy in their national interest, be it war or peace, is justified.
Just War from the Bahá'í Perspective


I think I lean towards absolute pacifist, there is no good reason for war. The excuses we do use for going to war are IMO most likely not justified. However there maybe some humanitarian reason to wage war with another country if it could be absolutely proven that atrocities against innocent folks were being commited. I suspect, however, this is perhaps never the real reason we end up in a war.

“War is really nothing more but the result of existing forces.” So not only is war not always a bad thing necessarily, as ‘Abdu’l-Bahá explains:
A conquest can be a praiseworthy thing, and there are times when war becomes the powerful basis of peace, and ruin the very means of reconstruction. If, for example, a high-minded sovereign marshals his troops to block the onset of the insurgent and the aggressor, or again, if he takes the field and distinguishes himself in a struggle to unify a divided state and people, if, in brief, he is ‘waging war for a righteous purpose’, then this seeming wrath is mercy itself, and this apparent tyranny the very substance of justice and this warfare the cornerstone of peace. Today, the task befitting great rulers is to establish universal peace, for in this lies the freedom of all peoples.

Just War from the Bahá'í Perspective

Maybe war can be justified, has there been a war that was justified?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I like the Tao Teh Ching's advice, "Conduct your victory [marches] like a funeral".
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Just War Theory

To put it simple, Just War theory attempts to identify the circumstances under which a war would be just. Therefore, it consists of two parts. While Just War theory confesses that killing is, in its general sense, morally improper, it also tries to characterise conditions in which the killing of others becomes a moral obligation. Having recognised that war is inevitable among states and will lead to deaths, Just War theory also attempts to envisage how the use of arms might be controlled, made more humane, and eventually directed towards establishing lasting peace and justice. In brief, just war is countering evil with the lesser evil.

Many scholars of International Relations Theory believe that there is no Just War ‘theory’ as such and there are actually as many Just War theories as the number of the people who judge the wars. Since it is so relative a concept, according to how people justify wars, one can categorise the spectrum of just war into four categories. Those who believe no war can be justified by any means and in any situation are ‘absolute pacifists’. Those who suppose some wars justly fought can be found in the history are ‘dovish’ and those who consider few wars in the history as unjust are ‘hawkish’. In the last ‘realpolitik’ category raison d'état is what drives the realists. Consequently, any strategy in their national interest, be it war or peace, is justified.
Just War from the Bahá'í Perspective


I think I lean towards absolute pacifist, there is no good reason for war. The excuses we do use for going to war are IMO most likely not justified. However there maybe some humanitarian reason to wage war with another country if it could be absolutely proven that atrocities against innocent folks were being commited. I suspect, however, this is perhaps never the real reason we end up in a war.

“War is really nothing more but the result of existing forces.” So not only is war not always a bad thing necessarily, as ‘Abdu’l-Bahá explains:
A conquest can be a praiseworthy thing, and there are times when war becomes the powerful basis of peace, and ruin the very means of reconstruction. If, for example, a high-minded sovereign marshals his troops to block the onset of the insurgent and the aggressor, or again, if he takes the field and distinguishes himself in a struggle to unify a divided state and people, if, in brief, he is ‘waging war for a righteous purpose’, then this seeming wrath is mercy itself, and this apparent tyranny the very substance of justice and this warfare the cornerstone of peace. Today, the task befitting great rulers is to establish universal peace, for in this lies the freedom of all peoples.

Just War from the Bahá'í Perspective

Maybe war can be justified, has there been a war that was justified?


WWII comes to mind...
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
Sure, but this is only really told from one side. And what is told, how historically accurate is it?

Oh, it has to be historically accurate too? I thought you were just interested in the philosophical justifications for war.

I'm not too big on actual history, so I'm out.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I think wars of self-defense can be justified, though not always the means used to prosecute them. So, for example, the Allies were justified to defend themselves against Axis aggression in WWII, but were not justified to bomb cities and civilian centers for the sole purpose of terrorizing the enemy populations.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Just War Theory

To put it simple, Just War theory attempts to identify the circumstances under which a war would be just. Therefore, it consists of two parts. While Just War theory confesses that killing is, in its general sense, morally improper, it also tries to characterise conditions in which the killing of others becomes a moral obligation. Having recognised that war is inevitable among states and will lead to deaths, Just War theory also attempts to envisage how the use of arms might be controlled, made more humane, and eventually directed towards establishing lasting peace and justice. In brief, just war is countering evil with the lesser evil.

Many scholars of International Relations Theory believe that there is no Just War ‘theory’ as such and there are actually as many Just War theories as the number of the people who judge the wars. Since it is so relative a concept, according to how people justify wars, one can categorise the spectrum of just war into four categories. Those who believe no war can be justified by any means and in any situation are ‘absolute pacifists’. Those who suppose some wars justly fought can be found in the history are ‘dovish’ and those who consider few wars in the history as unjust are ‘hawkish’. In the last ‘realpolitik’ category raison d'état is what drives the realists. Consequently, any strategy in their national interest, be it war or peace, is justified.
Just War from the Bahá'í Perspective


I think I lean towards absolute pacifist, there is no good reason for war. The excuses we do use for going to war are IMO most likely not justified. However there maybe some humanitarian reason to wage war with another country if it could be absolutely proven that atrocities against innocent folks were being commited. I suspect, however, this is perhaps never the real reason we end up in a war.

“War is really nothing more but the result of existing forces.” So not only is war not always a bad thing necessarily, as ‘Abdu’l-Bahá explains:
A conquest can be a praiseworthy thing, and there are times when war becomes the powerful basis of peace, and ruin the very means of reconstruction. If, for example, a high-minded sovereign marshals his troops to block the onset of the insurgent and the aggressor, or again, if he takes the field and distinguishes himself in a struggle to unify a divided state and people, if, in brief, he is ‘waging war for a righteous purpose’, then this seeming wrath is mercy itself, and this apparent tyranny the very substance of justice and this warfare the cornerstone of peace. Today, the task befitting great rulers is to establish universal peace, for in this lies the freedom of all peoples.

Just War from the Bahá'í Perspective

Maybe war can be justified, has there been a war that was justified?
Suppose you were are a peaceful farmer in England around 800 something A.D. and suddenly vikings started showing up raiding, looting, killing and enslaving. The most obvious reason for war is to defend your own people against other people who are coming to kill or enslave you all. I would not think twice before killing a viking who had invaded my country if that was still a thing.

The second most just reason would be similar. That's when a nation's allies are being invaded the same way.

As for what we have now the "global U.S. police force". It's all propaganda for the most part. It's all pretext for global monetary conquest. In other words the USA fights to keep the dollar as the global reserve currency and as the petrodollar. Then we have wars for the military industrial complex and thirdly wars for control of resources.

Even worse for us is that the USA fights as the military enforcers of the BANKS.

End the Fed.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Just War Theory

To put it simple, Just War theory attempts to identify the circumstances under which a war would be just. Therefore, it consists of two parts. While Just War theory confesses that killing is, in its general sense, morally improper, it also tries to characterise conditions in which the killing of others becomes a moral obligation. Having recognised that war is inevitable among states and will lead to deaths, Just War theory also attempts to envisage how the use of arms might be controlled, made more humane, and eventually directed towards establishing lasting peace and justice. In brief, just war is countering evil with the lesser evil.

Many scholars of International Relations Theory believe that there is no Just War ‘theory’ as such and there are actually as many Just War theories as the number of the people who judge the wars. Since it is so relative a concept, according to how people justify wars, one can categorise the spectrum of just war into four categories. Those who believe no war can be justified by any means and in any situation are ‘absolute pacifists’. Those who suppose some wars justly fought can be found in the history are ‘dovish’ and those who consider few wars in the history as unjust are ‘hawkish’. In the last ‘realpolitik’ category raison d'état is what drives the realists. Consequently, any strategy in their national interest, be it war or peace, is justified.
Just War from the Bahá'í Perspective


I think I lean towards absolute pacifist, there is no good reason for war. The excuses we do use for going to war are IMO most likely not justified. However there maybe some humanitarian reason to wage war with another country if it could be absolutely proven that atrocities against innocent folks were being commited. I suspect, however, this is perhaps never the real reason we end up in a war.

“War is really nothing more but the result of existing forces.” So not only is war not always a bad thing necessarily, as ‘Abdu’l-Bahá explains:
A conquest can be a praiseworthy thing, and there are times when war becomes the powerful basis of peace, and ruin the very means of reconstruction. If, for example, a high-minded sovereign marshals his troops to block the onset of the insurgent and the aggressor, or again, if he takes the field and distinguishes himself in a struggle to unify a divided state and people, if, in brief, he is ‘waging war for a righteous purpose’, then this seeming wrath is mercy itself, and this apparent tyranny the very substance of justice and this warfare the cornerstone of peace. Today, the task befitting great rulers is to establish universal peace, for in this lies the freedom of all peoples.

Just War from the Bahá'í Perspective

Maybe war can be justified, has there been a war that was justified?

As Clausewitz put it "War is the continuation of politics by other means."

This would mean that it's not really a question of war being just, but whether politics is just. If politics is unjust, then war is inevitable and (arguably) just.

Of course, the other side of that is whether the stated pretexts for war are truthful, since governments will try to justify war to gain support of the people. They will invariably state a reason which appears "just" on its face, but if it's not the truth, then it would not be a just war.

Then there's the question of immediate causes of war as opposed to the historical background leading up to it. There's also the matter of whether a peaceful solution or compromise can be found to avoid or minimize war.

Other complications might be whether a country goes to war for its own direct self-defense, or whether it's going to war (or threatening war) on behalf of defending another country. Some might say that it's more just to allow individual countries to fight their own battles without outside interference or intervention.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
To me none of the choices apply. My personal position is that a war is just for self-defense and to defend other nations which are attacked. It also may be justified when a nation commits genocide on it's own people.

Of course there's a large grey area but that's my basic belief.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
@Nakosis As a Christian, I take to heart the words of Jesus Christ to be the only way to handle any kind of national aggression. Show love to your enemies and it makes it harder for them to hate you. Pray for them, rather than to fight them.

Jesus said at Matthew 5:43-45.....“You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous."

All truly justified wars were fought by Israel in defense of their God-given land, thousands of years ago. When God sanctified their wars, they were blessed with victory, but since the diaspora, Jews no longer occupy just their own land. There is no longer a "Holy Land" which is the preserve of just one nation. There is no longer any physical land to defend. The whole earth belongs to its Creator and I don't recall him ever giving any other nation permission to call any land their own. Most have stolen their land from others.

Christians today occupy every nation on earth, making the fighting over a piece of dirt rather meaningless. Its a bit like fleas fighting over which part of the dog they own.
confused0007.gif


We do not hold citizenship of any nation as dear to us as the citizenship we hold in another more important kingdom. The King of that Kingdom is the representative of the Sovereign of the whole Universe and he is the one who issues our commands. His words above represent what his subjects must do. And being "no part of the world" means not getting involved in its political skirmishes and bloodshed. (John 15:18-21) Christians would be known for showing this love to fellow Christians and to people of every nation. (John 13:34-35)

What the governments of any political nations do to defend their land is up to them.....but Christians could not be a part of it, if it means taking the lives of other humans. Innocents are part of the carnage...and God has not sanctioned that.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Voted absolute pacifist; the concept of war is incompatible with the degree of awareness our civilization has attained.
 
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