Justify your belief???

[RestlessSoul]

That is counterproductive. There really can be no meaningful conversation between two believers if that is the case. They both believe that the other is wrong but neither has a rational reason for that belief. They would both effectively stalemate themselves.

Pure projection on your part, that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Pure projection on your part, that.

No, That is the voice of experience. I have dealt with more than my fair share of zealots.

 

[Heyo]

I see theists debate over eachother's beliefs all the time.

I don't.
As long as atheists are present, the believers are careful not to critique each other. But they are at each others throats as soon as we don't look. You can tell by the bodies in the streets.

 

[RestlessSoul]

No, That is the voice of experience. I have dealt with more than my fair share of zealots.

No doubt. And so have I, since joining this forum - there is a voluble handful of atheist zealots on here, which is what I imagine inspired the OP to start this thread.

But I don’t presume that people with different perspectives from each other and from me, can’t have meaningful discussions between each other.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No doubt. And so have I, since joining this forum - there is a voluble handful of atheist zealots on here, which is what I imagine inspired the OP to start this thread.

But I don’t presume that people with different perspectives from each other and from me, can’t have meaningful discussions between each other.

Once again, it depends if they consider that they can be wrong. Now there is a small possibility that I am wrong but it appears that you got your accusation very backwards. When theists try to tell other people what they have to do that is when atheists demand a rational reason for their interference. The only example of "atheists" and I am not even sure if it atheists that are to blame, was for bans on certain clothing in some countries such as the hijab ban in France. I am against such laws too and after I thought about it for a while I realized that that could have been a ban enacted by Christians. I do not know for sure, but I do believe France is still a majority Christian country , not atheist.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry, but that is demonstrably wrong. Those that do not have sex before marriage are much more likely to get a divorce than those that do.

Please provide a website with the proof of that claim. Of course, I will be able to find another website that proves you wrong.

Sex is an extremely important part of a marriage and if people are incompatible sexually it can and often does end up in a divorce. Or it could be just a life of cheating and abuse to get the sex that one needs outside of marriage. Divorce rates of Evangelical Christians is quite a bit higher than that of atheists.

Forget that. Sex is not the most important part of marriage, especially as we age. If it is all a couple has holding them together, that means there is something wrong with the marriage. Sexual incompatibility is only one reason for divorce and not the main reason.

Judge! I am filing for a divorce because the sex was subpar!
Anyone who has children and would divorce and split up a family because the sex was subpar is very selfish.

While divorces are generally filed for more overt reasons that are clear as to why it happened such as abuse, adultery, incarceration, drug and alcohol abuse, or abandonment, sexual incompatibility is a reason for people to get divorced too.

Divorce Over Sexual Incompatibility | Villani & DeLuca

People are gong to have sex outside of marriage no matter what. And the reason that unmarried women have a high divorce rate here is because we do not have the social safety net that we should have. Look at Europe. State funded abortions, those don't exist here, even loser laws than the US. And plenty of premarital sex. Why do they have abortion rates lower than we do? They have a proper social safety net so that a pregnancy out of wedlock is not a disaster.

I guess you intended to say "And the reason that unmarried women have a high abortion rate here is because we do not have the social safety net that we should have."

That is not the reason why more unmarried women have abortions. The reason is because they are having sex and they have no committed relationship so they do not WANT to keep the child. Sex out of wedlock leads to most abortions that take place, so if everyone was married before they had sex there would be a great reduction in the demand for abortions.

But you are correct in saying that people are gong to have sex outside of marriage no matter what. I consider that a sad commentary on society.

As I said, they cause a much more stable marriage once someone does marry.. Which is better for everyone, not just the husband and wife, but also any children they have.

Sorry, the statistics do not bear that out, as I said above. Research found that having multiple sex partners prior to marriage could lead to less happy marriages, and often increased the odds of divorce. All the long-married couples I know never had sex with anyone else.

Women who married as virgins were less likely to divorce within five years across all three waves of the study — just 11 percent in the 1980s and 6 percent in the 2010s. But women who reported two sexual partners had the highest divorce rates in the 1980s and 1990s, the study found.Jun 16, 2016

Sex with 2 Partners Before Marriage Raises Divorce Risk | Live Science

Earlier research found that having multiple sex partners prior to marriage could lead to less happy marriages, and often increased the odds of divorce.Jun 6, 2016

Counterintuitive Trends in the Link Between Premarital Sex ...

Free and easily available birth control alone would drop our abortion rates. Proper sex ed classes. The states with the highest teen pregnancies also tend to be the ones with the worst sex ed classes.

We already have easily available birth control available at little cost. The reason for most unintended pregnancies is because the woman or man was not using birth control all the time and using it properly.

Teens should not be having sex and that is what sex ed classes should be teaching, not how to prevent pregnancy.

This discussion does not belong on this thread so if you want to continue it I suggest you start a new thread.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is counterproductive. There really can be no meaningful conversation between two believers if that is the case. They both believe that the other is wrong but neither has a rational reason for that belief. They would both effectively stalemate themselves.

or we could just agree to disagree, knowing that different people have different belief perspectives.

 

[syo]

Why do religious people have to justify their personal religious and spiritual belief?

To see if it's real.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please provide a website with the proof of that claim. Of course, I will be able to find another website that proves you wrong.

Okay, pretty hard to argue with a Christian source that admits that atheists have a one of the lowest divorce rates and that white evangelicals have the highest:

https://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Divorce_Statistics_by_Religion

Forget that. Sex is not the most important part of marriage, especially as we age. If it is all a couple has holding them together, that means there is something wrong with the marriage. Sexual incompatibility is only one reason for divorce and not the main reason.

Judge! I am filing for a divorce because the sex was subpar!
Anyone who has children and would divorce and split up a family because the sex was subpar is very selfish.

While divorces are generally filed for more overt reasons that are clear as to why it happened such as abuse, adultery, incarceration, drug and alcohol abuse, or abandonment, sexual incompatibility is a reason for people to get divorced too.

Divorce Over Sexual Incompatibility | Villani & DeLuca

I guess you intended to say "And the reason that unmarried women have a high abortion rate here is because we do not have the social safety net that we should have."

That is not the reason why more unmarried women have abortions. The reason is because they are having sex and they have no committed relationship so they do not WANT to keep the child. Sex out of wedlock leads to most abortions that take place, so if everyone was married before they had sex there would be a great reduction in the demand for abortions.

But you are correct in saying that people are gong to have sex outside of marriage no matter what. I consider that a sad commentary on society.

Sorry, the statistics do not bear that out, as I said above. Research found that having multiple sex partners prior to marriage could lead to less happy marriages, and often increased the odds of divorce. All the long-married couples I know never had sex with anyone else.

Women who married as virgins were less likely to divorce within five years across all three waves of the study — just 11 percent in the 1980s and 6 percent in the 2010s. But women who reported two sexual partners had the highest divorce rates in the 1980s and 1990s, the study found.Jun 16, 2016

Sex with 2 Partners Before Marriage Raises Divorce Risk | Live Science

Earlier research found that having multiple sex partners prior to marriage could lead to less happy marriages, and often increased the odds of divorce.Jun 6, 2016

Counterintuitive Trends in the Link Between Premarital Sex ...

We already have easily available birth control available at little cost. The reason for most unintended pregnancies is because the woman or man was not using birth control all the time and using it properly.

Teens should not be having sex and that is what sex ed classes should be teaching, not how to prevent pregnancy.

This discussion does not belong on this thread so if you want to continue it I suggest you start a new thread.

If you can't be serious then we won't have a discussion. Try again, you know that you can do better than that. And try to leave out the strawman arguments next time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

or we could just agree to disagree, knowing that different people have different belief perspectives.

The problem is that religious people, all too often, try to tell others what to do based upon their religious beliefs. Tell me, why did you assume that the hijab ban in France was an atheist law? Last I knew France was still a majority Christian country. If that is the case it appears that you do not have any examples of atheists tell theists how to behave.

EDIT: Yep, France is a Christian majority country. Over 60% Catholic. That was not an "atheist law".

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sex with 2 Partners Before Marriage Raises Divorce Risk | Live Science

Earlier research found that having multiple sex partners prior to marriage could lead to less happy marriages, and often increased the odds of divorce.Jun 6, 2016

LOL! No! It doesn't. You did not read your own article. You read only the headline, or else you misunderstood it. Your article says that women are weird (okay, it did not say exactly that) but it says that if women had only two sex partners, her husband and one other before marriage, it led to a higher divorce rate than if she had only her husband as a sex partner or more than just the two. Your own source refutes you. A woman that has had multiple sex partners is more apt to marry one that she is compatible with, my conclusion not necessarily that of the article. But it seems reasonable. It is only when she has had two and only two that she tends to compare her husband critically compared to the others.

 

[Heyo]

Let me ask in a different way.

Why do certain members of RF keep at it toward the same theist members over and over again, accusing them of fallacy, hearsay, ignorance, strawman, or of lying?

Ask them. As you might have noticed by now, you committed an unjustified generalization. Most atheists here have stated that they don't do it and don't condone it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Okay, pretty hard to argue with a Christian source that admits that atheists have a one of the lowest divorce rates and that white evangelicals have the highest:

https://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Divorce_Statistics_by_Religion

From that website:

Atheists have some of the lowest divorce rates listed at 2 percent. However, it should be noted that the marriage rate among this group is also smaller. This was noted in a 2012 study that only about 36 percent of atheists were married compared to 54 percent of Christians.

According to research by the Pew Research Center, Catholics had one of the lowest incidences of divorce, with 19 percent having been divorced out of 4,752 interviewed.

Mormons had a divorce rate of about 1 percent. Many studies attribute the low divorce rate among this group to the strong emphasis on families and a powerful religious affiliation.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You could probably learn more if you kept in mind that you might be wrong.

I am wrong many times a day, but I don't ask non believers to tell me, I read different religions scriptures to find where I am wrong.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Guys if you haven't noticed, this OP is NOT about me, it is about why a few atheists ask for justification from believers for why they believe what they do.
Not about me!!!!!!!!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Let me ask in a different way.

Why do certain members of RF keep at it toward the same theist members over and over again, accusing them of fallacy, hearsay, ignorance, strawman, or of lying?

It's a debate forum.
Debate is the very purpose of this place.

If you come on here and post to express whatever view - expect it to be challenged and for someone to try to tear it apart.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It's a debate forum.
Debate is the very purpose of this place.

If you come on here and post to express whatever view - expect it to be challenged and for someone to try to tear it apart.

When I started the OP i put it on purpose in discussion, not debate but staff moved it to debate.

That is not my fault

 

[RestlessSoul]

It's a debate forum.
Debate is the very purpose of this place.

If you come on here and post to express whatever view - expect it to be challenged and for someone to try to tear it apart.

Do you get satisfaction from tearing things apart?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When I started the OP i put it on purpose in discussion, not debate but staff moved it to debate.

That is not my fault

I wasn't talking about this thread.
But the forum in general.

In a discussion / debate forum, just about every time you express a view, there will be someone else disagreeing with it and as a result, challenge it and try and pick it apart.
It's what the forum is for. In fact.... the forum deals specifically with religious topics. So not only will your views in general be challenged, your religious views in particular will be challenged

Yet, this thread seems to be you complaining about exactly that.
That religious views are challenged on a religious discussion & debate forum.

Well.... yeah.

 

[Clara Tea]

Why do religious people have to justify their personal religious and spiritual belief?

Why not?

They run the world. Cancelled internet gambling. Opposed abortion. Nag door to door (donations, coverts). Political campaigns.

Then there are the lies. God is good (Noah's flood)(punish for forbidden fruit)(killed Jesus)(ignored cancer pain). Atheists have no morals (they do so, in fact theists have made far more crimes....including preachers like Reverend Jim Bakker).

If anyone does something kind of charitable, they assume that God made them do it. This was exemplified in the movie "Lilies of the Field" with Sidney Poitier (he built a church for poor nuns and got no credit for it).

If they are going to cram religion down our throats (violate the separation of church and state by school run prayers, teaching creationism, refusing to teach evolution, banning condoms which could prevent unwanted pregnancies and the spread of STDs, ban Gay marriages and child custody and inheritance for Gays, ban Gays in the military, etc), we should at least be able to raise objections.

Are we supposed to remain silent as Christians vote in their candidates, who then violate God's laws (wars, cheating, lies, greed, torture camps, ignore the homeless).

People would be justifyable horrified if Communists took over the US government. But, the Religious Right, voting in great numbers, did exactly that. . . they took over the government. Their presidents appointed Supreme Court justices for life. Are we supposed to let them talk about an invisible God, Jonah in the belly of a whale, talking in tongues, then running the world (violating God's laws by making wars)?

Attorney General Ashcroft (a devout Christian) wrote a book about the lies and killing of the W. Bush admin. (book: Never Again).

Ambassador Joseph Wilson wrote a book about the lies and killing of the W. Bush administration: The Politics of Truth. It's about W. Bush and Cheney asking Wilson to lie about Niger selling Uranium to Iraq (to motivate a new war against Niger, to take their African resources, and to justify the unjustifyable war in Iraq). To punish Wilson, they outed his CIA wife (Valery Plame). I just bought a book about that today.

Watergate, the Iran Contra scandal, and a host of other crimes have plagued the party of the Religious Right. They advocate war, torture camps, and the National Rifle Association. Since when did Jesus advocate killing (without justification)?

So, Christians can do anything that they want, and we have to watch them destroy our world without even raising an objection.

On the other hand, there are many well-meaning Christians who are not a part of the lies, greed, killing, torture, and shenanigans, and they are kind people who would try to help the homeless, and not cater to the wealthy by continually cutting their taxes (which made a vast chasm between the rich and poor, and now the middle class is poor and many are homeless).

The world is a mess, and Christians made it so. Disease, poverty, debt, pollution, Global Warming, starvation, homelessness. Are we to be gagged by the Cancel Culture?