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JW: Losing on the Internet Front?

Skwim

Veteran Member
Yeah, several here bailed about a month or so ago. All within a day or so of each other.
 
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David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Just read this article: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/202015244

It seems the leadership no longer wants its members interacting online. Could it be that their numbers are dropping as internet communities cause doubt or disprove certain JW's positions? That is what I took from it. They are losing the online information war, and they are now in full retreat.
I know from personal experience that their elders do not want younger or newer member discussing differing views with outsiders.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
I was saddened to read of a member here leaving a few months ago, due to this. It would seem it has to do with information control. Not sure of what other reason there might be, but that seems like a logical guess.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I was in the Seventh day Adventist and they never liked their members mixing with non Adventist, I believe the reason why is that in their little world they have made they believe they and them only have the truth. They make up all sorts of lies to keep us their, they say that its the devil trying to temped us, and so don't listen to any one else's idea's of what the believe is in the bible. This sicken me and is why I left the church, I know that the JW's are simular as I know a couple of members.
 
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David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I was saddened to read of a member here leaving a few months ago, due to this. It would seem it has to do with information control. Not sure of what other reason there might be, but that seems like a logical guess.
You are correct. A few years ago a JW elder with a younger member came by my house for a "bible study". I was very polite but questioned to many of their beliefs. Next time he came by the young lady with him stayed in the car.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Well, they have some beliefs that do not stand up well to increased education and information. I hope the members find beliefs they can be more comfortable with.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Just read this article: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/202015244

It seems the leadership no longer wants its members interacting online. Could it be that their numbers are dropping as internet communities cause doubt or disprove certain JW's positions? That is what I took from it. They are losing the online information war, and they are now in full retreat.

I don't understand how you got this from the article you linked to. That's not what the article says. It addresses the question of whether or not to proselytize over the internet to people in other countries, not online interaction more broadly, and specifically relates to publishers not individual people. And I quote:

"Should publishers make extensive use of the Internet to witness to or to study with strangers living in another country?

... publishers should not go online to seek out people from another country with whom to share the good news.

Unless directed otherwise by the local branch office, if we witness informally to a stranger who is visiting from another country, we should not try to cultivate his interest after he returns home. Instead, we can show him how he can use jw.org to obtain additional information or how he can contact the local branch office."
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I recall kolibri linking is a Watchtower article specifically opposing JW participation in online communities. He said that was why he was leaving. Jay Jay Dee also, iirc.
Tom
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I don't understand how you got this from the article you linked to. That's not what the article says. It addresses the question of whether or not to proselytize over the internet to people in other countries, not online interaction more broadly, and specifically relates to publishers not individual people. And I quote:

"Should publishers make extensive use of the Internet to witness to or to study with strangers living in another country?

... publishers should not go online to seek out people from another country with whom to share the good news.

Unless directed otherwise by the local branch office, if we witness informally to a stranger who is visiting from another country, we should not try to cultivate his interest after he returns home. Instead, we can show him how he can use jw.org to obtain additional information or how he can contact the local branch office."
"Publishers" is the name for JW members who preach, or something like that.

"Baptized publishers are members who have been publicly baptized following conversion to the faith.

Jehovah's Witnesses consider all baptized Witnesses to be ministers. Participants in organized preaching activity are referred to as publishers. Only individuals who are approved and active as publishers are officially counted as members."

Unbaptized publishers are persons who are not yet baptized, but who have requested and been granted approval to join in the congregation's formal ministry. They must demonstrate a basic knowledge of Jehovah's Witnesses' doctrines to the elders, state their desire to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and conform to the organization's moral standards. To qualify as an unbaptized publisher, an individual must already be "an active associate of Jehovah's Witnesses", regularly attending congregation meetings.
Source: Wikpedia​
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
"Publishers" is the name for baptized members who preach, or something like that.

"Baptized publishers are members who have been publicly baptized following conversion to the faith.

Jehovah's Witnesses consider all baptized Witnesses to be ministers. Participants in organized preaching activity are referred to as publishers. Only individuals who are approved and active as publishers are officially counted as members."
Source: Wikpedia​

Weird choice of terms. Learn something new every day, I guess.

Still think the OP is reading more into it than is there, though.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
It's amazing. It's like a religion that has claimed us to be "living on the precipice of the end-times" for over 140 years might be afraid at the prospect of its members actually finding or figuring out how often they've been wrong*.



*For those keeping track at home, the answer to that is "literally always".
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I was saddened to read of a member here leaving a few months ago, due to this. It would seem it has to do with information control. Not sure of what other reason there might be, but that seems like a logical guess.
It's what happens when you simply let someone else control whatever you say and do. Some people like it that way.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
It's amazing. It's like a religion that has claimed us to be "living on the precipice of the end-times" for over 140 years might be afraid at the prospect of its members actually finding or figuring out how often they've been wrong*.



*For those keeping track at home, the answer to that is "literally always".
This is also true with the Seventh Day Adventist that I was once a member of, just about every sermon was about the second coming of Jesus, and their still at it since 1844 lol.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Weird choice of terms. Learn something new every day, I guess.

Still think the OP is reading more into it than is there, though.

The JWs here definitely cited this as why they were leaving. I kept communication up with one of them for a while afterwards (since we were from the same country, the ruling didn't really apply to direct conversation), and that was confirmed.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Admittedly without knowing much about them, I think Jehovah's Witnesses need to stay and fight it out online. The sheer power of the medium means that if you're voice or group is not represented, people will either not know you exist, or a great deal of mis-representation will be put into circulation and will go uncriticised. Our sense of reality is largely made through the media, and that has some pretty serious issues when it comes to how we define "free thought". if everyone gets their information from the same source, it makes conformity alot easier. The sense of who is "us" and who is "them" is made on the basis of who participates on social media and what they say. it affects not only people's sense of reality but their identity as well because it becomes the seconary (and sometimes the primary) means of socialising with other people. The court of public opinion therefore casts judgement without anyone on the side of the defence, and often on knee-jerk and emotional grounds for not being "on of us" rather than more thoughtful or well-researched reasons. As time goes on, the internet will become a more powerful medium rather than less. Whether on our laptop or on our phone, it is pretty much everywhere, and even if you're not connected you'll still feels its affects in how it affects other people's views offline. This is where people get their information from and form (or re-inforce) their opinions about other people.

That said, the internet is not a medium which encourages orthodoxy, and as a "marketplace of ideas" generally re-inforces liberal traditions of free thought. it is also extremely divisive towards beliefs that are not backed up by evidence, both because of the accessability of information and the power of peer pressure to keep individuals quiet. So I can well understand why someone would want to do this, even if I disagree with it for very practical reasons.

Whilst I admit things can get pretty obnoxious at times, places like RF desperately need devout and intelligent believers with the courage of their convictions to inform the side of the debate that belongs to theists. Simply being heard is often enough to have an effect as it can cut through some of the mis-conceptions if people are in a receptive mood. The best you can hope for, is that by changing one person's mind or even better informing them, they may well go on to change another- but it is not a linear progression. Admittedly, the diversity of opinion on the internet can be overwhelming and confusing, but you have to fight it out as that is the measure of the value of your beliefs. doubt is not the enemy, but others people ignorance certianly could be.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
I don't understand how you got this from the article you linked to. That's not what the article says. It addresses the question of whether or not to proselytize over the internet to people in other countries, not online interaction more broadly, and specifically relates to publishers not individual people. And I quote:

"Should publishers make extensive use of the Internet to witness to or to study with strangers living in another country?

... publishers should not go online to seek out people from another country with whom to share the good news.

Unless directed otherwise by the local branch office, if we witness informally to a stranger who is visiting from another country, we should not try to cultivate his interest after he returns home. Instead, we can show him how he can use jw.org to obtain additional information or how he can contact the local branch office."

It's called reading between the lines...and apparently I am not the only one that thinks this.
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
It seems two-fold:

  1. not to discuss religion with apostates
  2. not to endanger people where it's unsafe to even be a Christian by witnessing/proselytizing/studying with.

It's sad how that can kill off simply talking to people...exclusivist agendas are just always ruining things for folks. :shrug:
 
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