Keep government OUT of my education!

[Mr Spinkles]

Some conservatives say they oppose free, public health insurance for all because it means big government, higher taxes, a government bureaucrat between you and your doctor, etc.

Do those same conservatives also oppose free, public education, then? After all you could make very similar arguments.
"Government bureaucrats will come between students and their teachers."
"Figuring out how to pay tuition for high school will be confusing and expensive."
"We can't afford it."
"I like my expensive private school."
"We won't have enough teachers."
"They'll ration textbooks."
"Government expulsion panels will decide which students remain in school."

Obviously some of our public schools have serious problems, but we want to fix those problems, we don't want to do away with free public education altogether...do we?

 

[Smoke]

Obviously some of our public schools have serious problems, but we want to fix those problems, we don't want to do away with free public education altogether...do we?

A lot of these nuts would like to do away with free public education. Other just want us to subsidize their religious schools.

I used to think you could mention defense and any sane person could see the advantage of government programs over private companies, but in the last decade we've seen a tendency toward privatization of that, too, to the benefit of companies like Xe (formerly Blackwater), DynCorp, and Triple Canopy.

It is a mistake to underestimate the lunacy of American right and those duped by the American right.

 

[T-Dawg]

"Government bureaucrats will come between students and their teachers."

They do.

"They'll ration textbooks."

They do, if by rationing textbooks, you mean rationing the information inside of them - the "approved" textbooks have to say certain things and can't say certain things.

"Government expulsion panels will decide which students remain in school."

It would not be outside of their power to do this. Personally, I think we have the opposite problem - people who don't want to learn are forced to come to school and take up space, time, and resources.

we don't want to do away with free public education altogether...do we?

It should remain as an option, but it should not be required that a child attend public school. Homeschooling and private schools should always be an option.

Were all these "conservative" arguments against public education actually supposed to be sarcasm? O_O

 

[Smoke]

Were all these "conservative" arguments against public education actually supposed to be sarcasm? O_O

What did I tell you, Spinkles?

 

[Mister Emu]

I've seen quite a few people that wonder if education would be better if it was handled at the state level...

"Government bureaucrats will come between students and their teachers."

Insurance is a bit different here... while I've never had a problem I have heard of doctors not being on insurance plans before so the person had to switch where they went to...

"We can't afford it."
"I like my expensive private school."
"We won't have enough teachers."
"They'll ration textbooks."

We do.. sadly, the amount of money in education is nto what is stopping public schools from being as quality as private...
I do.
We don't.
They do.(at least I've seen some woefully out of date textbooks, I consider that the same as rationing )

Obviously some of our public schools have serious problems, but we want to fix those problems, we don't want to do away with free public education altogether...do we?

It depends, if, for instance, the amount of taxes the average individual gives towards education would cover the average cost of a private institution, and there was a plan for people who couldn't afford it to go to school, then I'd say that being able to go to the private institution would be a better deal...

That said, I don't know that the average amount of taxes paid towards education would cover the tuition to a private institution... so I would be against getting rid of free schools...

 

[Dunemeister]

If you want public services like this, you have to be willing to pay for them. Europeans have free education (including, in some cases, university) and health care (prenatal to grave). But they also pay more tax than Americans. And there's the rub. The Europeans see the taxes as justified and, even though some people pay in brackets over 65%, they don't simmer with resentment (like Americans do when they hit 25%). Rather, they simply enjoy a quality of life that far exceeds most Americans and get on with things.

 

[Phasmid]

The NHS is one of the greatest aspects of being British... it's by no means perfect but it's good to know that if I get seriously ill, I'll be looked after and won't have to worry about insurance or huge expenses.

Further, I thought the proposed bill would allow people the option of staying in private healthcare? What's the big issue here? People who can't afford treatment can now recieve it and those that can afford it need not be treated on the national health plan...

 

[Heneni]

The NHS is one of the greatest aspects of being British... it's by no means perfect but it's good to know that if I get seriously ill, I'll be looked after and won't have to worry about insurance or huge expenses.

Further, I thought the proposed bill would allow people the option of staying in private healthcare? What's the big issue here? People who can't afford treatment can now recieve it and those that can afford it need not be treated on the national health plan...

I agree.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Shouldn't the title read...

Keep thu govrment owt of my educashun!!!!

 

[Just_me_Mike]

This is all I have to say

 

[J Bryson]

This is all I have to say

There's no need to use obscenity.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

There's no need to use obscenity.

Sometimes you have to draw the line in the sand, and bring out the big guns :yes:

 

[themadhair]

Two points:

1) I live in a country where education is largely free until University level. We have provisions in our constitution that ensure such. Wouldn’t change it for the world and it really does benefit us economically.

2) There is a potential problem should education go private in the US. Private industries are not subject to the restrictions of the US constitution. This is the de facto argument for me here when one considers what possible crap could be potentially taught.

I agree 100% with the OP in terms of the analogy being drawn between health care and education, I just don’t think those who oppose the health care reforms will see the situation regarding education as any different.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

By the way just to clarify....my point in the OP was not that none of the criticisms I mentioned are legitimate. My point was simply that those criticisms are nothing compared to the immense flaws with doing away with public education entirely, so only people who could afford private schools could get educated -- as it was for centuries before the Enlightenment.

The problems with that, I assumed, are obvious to everyone. I guess not.