Keeping Kosher should Christians?

[Vor]

Mark 7:18-20



18And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him,
19because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared (A)all foods (B)clean.)
20And He was saying, "(C)That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man.
21"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,
22deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, (D)envy, slander, pride and foolishness.


My personal opinion is that this has to do with preaching about evil things to avoid and has nothing to do with food whatsoever. So what do you think? Should Christians keep Kosher? (it's part of the law)

remember

Matthew 5:18
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

 

[sojourner]

The Law was fulfilled in Jesus. All the Law hinges upon loving God and loving neighbor. Because the Law is thus based upon grace and not upon what we do, (because Christ loves us), we are "Kosher" and have no need to "do" Kosher.

 

[Green Kepi]

In Mark 7 - Jesus is teaching about Inner Purity. Most likely centering in on the Mishnah (Early Talmud), a collection of traditions Moses gave the Jews in oral form. Jesus condemns these traditions. Why? The Talmud nullifies the teachings of the New Testament. Some of their "made up" rules/laws were: Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God, Jews had superior legal status, Jesus' mother Mary was a whore, Jesus learned witchcraft, it's okay to cheat or steal from non-Jews and non-Jewish children were animals. Have you noticed the term, Rabbi was not found in the Old Testament - this was made up too. Maybe that's why Jesus made the statement that He made in Matt. 23:8.

 

[Ronald]

I know that this came from the Disciples, but Acts 15:20 - 15 :29 speaks of what a Gentile coming to God was to perform, Gentiles mind you, the Hebrews were already kosher. Then Acts 21:25 it is repeated, so right in your accepted scriptures they tell you to mimic the Hebrew in this manner.

BTW didn't any of you notice ( he declared all foods clean) the parens indicate translators Addition!
Non-kosher animals that were not slaughtered the kosher way are not conscidered food! He declared all "foods" clean.

 

[Popeyesays]

As a Baha`i I have two food restrictions.

I am not supposed to "plunge my hands" in a communal bowl of food.

I am not supposed to eat the flesh of an animal I find dead in a trap. I can use it's hide, plumage, pelt; but I can't eat it.

Other than that there are no unclean foods, and foods by definition do not include poisons.

There are no "unclean substances" either like so many religions consider semen or menstrual fluids unclean, or blood.

Regards,

Scott

 

[rstrats]

Vor,

I assume that you when you quote the parenthetical note from your translation, "(Thus he declared all foods clean.)", at the end of verse 19, that you are suggesting that the Messiah was saying that unclean animals had been made clean. As Ronald has touched on, even if the parenthetical entry is authentic - some translations such as the "King James" and the "Interlinear Greek-English New Testament" don’t have it - I am not aware of any scripture that ever refers to unclean animals as "food". Thus He could only be saying that clean animals would not be made unclean by eating with unwashed hands. However, the context of verses 1-20, has to do with the Pharisees’ practice of always washing their hands before eating. The subject is not clean and unclean animals, but unclean hands. The Messiah showed that unclean thoughts are the things that most defile a man, not just unwashed hands. After explaining that inner defilement of the mind is far worse than defilement of the body, the Messiah concluded, 19"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness blasphemies. 20"These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

The Pharisees watched every word and movement that the Messiah made. They falsely accused Him of breaking the Sabbath, and claimed that He blasphemed when He said God was His Father John 5:18. But never did any Jew ever accuse the Messiah of eating, or advocating the eating of unclean animals.

 

[Valjean]

Didn't Jesus say somewhere that he was not changing the law? Didn't He his little band consider themselves and live as Jews, generally observing Jewish laws and traditions? WWJD?

This debate was born as Christian proselytizers were trying to make inroads into the Greek and Roman communities. They were looking for excuses to make compromises.

If Jesus "fulfilled the law;" if salvation is by grace alone, the the whole of the Old Testament is rescinded, and should be deleted from the Christian canon.

In my opinion, too many Christians today embrace tradition over The Word; social conventions over Biblical teachings. They're quick to quote the OT in condemnation of homosexuals, but conveniently blind to its condemnation of their own foreskins or the ham sandwitch they had for lunch. They worship not God, but convenience.

 

[Popeyesays]

Didn't Jesus say somewhere that he was not changing the law? Didn't He his little band consider themselves and live as Jews, generally observing Jewish laws and traditions? WWJD?

This debate was born as Christian proselytizers were trying to make inroads into the Greek and Roman communities. They were looking for excuses to make compromises.

If Jesus "fulfilled the law;" if salvation is by grace alone, the the whole of the Old Testament is rescinded, and should be deleted from the Christian canon.

In my opinion, too many Christians today embrace tradition over The Word; social conventions over Biblical teachings. They're quick to quote the OT in condemnation of homosexuals, but conveniently blind to its condemnation of their own foreskins or the ham sandwitch they had for lunch. They worship not God, but convenience.

I agree about tradition replacing rational thought.

I would point out however that the use of the word "fulfill" is very carefully chosen for it's more archaic meaning.

Main Entry: ful·fill Variant(s): or ful·fil \fu&#775;(l)-&#712;fil also f&#601;(l)-\ Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): ful·filled; ful·fill·ing Etymology: Middle English fulfillen, from Old English fullfyllan, from full + fyllan to fill Date: before 12th century 1archaic : to make full : fill <her subtle, warm, and golden breath…fulfills him with beatitude — Alfred Tennyson>2 a: to put into effect : execute b: to meet the requirements of (a business order) c: to bring to an end d: to measure up to : satisfy3 a: to convert into reality b: to develop the full potentialities of

Regards,

Scott

 

[Ronald]

There are a couple of the prophesied events that haven't been fulfiled, but he is the Messiah, and he will fulfill those at his return.

Contrary to the Christian fulfillment, nothing has changed in Torah, the sun has not gone dark so Torah is in full effect!

The NT tells Gentile believers to eat kosher, this is entry level to be able to meet and eat with all the bretheren. All these people were to meet together and practice the Way and all that that entailed, being a sect of the Jews.

Shalom

 

[Mattithyah]

A few scientists have done toxicity studies on the foods listed as clean and unclean in the Bible and now know that eating something called "unclean" shortens your lifespan. Those Laws (ALL OF THEM) pertain to health. It should make perfect sense that the Being Who Created you would know best what you should and should not put in your body.

Why is it that people think the Law is/was such a burden? I've been studying it and abiding it (to the best of my understanding) since late 2001 and must say, the 613 Laws of Yahweh are actually attainable which is less than I can say for the 40,000+ laws we have in the United States.

Is it hard to abstain from Pork? Not if you think of it as NOT FOOD. ... Not if you watch a youtube video showing trichnae words crawling out of an open wound during surgery... Not if you trust Yahweh, and believe He really did know what He was talking about...

Is it so hard to "love your neighbor as yourself"? Yes, people don't know that's one of the 613 Laws.

Is it so hard to keep the Feasts or observe the Sabbath (not Sun-Day)? No... Not when you do a little reading in Exodus 31 and Ezekiel 18, and Isa. 58.... If your desire is to be in perfect unity with your Creator, then you should learn that He also abides by those "burdensome" laws. He gave us those Laws for many reasons, but one important one is so we can learn all about the government of Yahweh and His Kingdom. People read their Bibles and never connect the dots. If there's a Kingdom then there are Laws. What if all of mankind went to Heave and did all the evil we see in the world today? Would Heaven be a place you would want to be? Not for me! Ugh! Life has it's great moments and life has it's bad moments, and I would like to think of Heaven as a place where there is no longer any such thing as bad moments. For sure, the Bible says "He will wipe away all tears."

Incedentally, I do believe in Heaven, but I don't believe (based on Hebrew Lexicon studies) that it's some place I'll go when I die. I believe it is a place on earth...

Daniel 12:7 "heaven" in Hebrew means: Yahweh is there. Where is Yahweh? When Mosheh was instructed to craft the Ark of the Covenant, Yahweh said He would be present between the two Cherubim, in the Most Holy place. So, where is Yahweh now? Is He in your church? If you believe so, I challenge you to prove it from Scriptural Hebrew and Greek. Yahweh inspired those manuscripts to be written, but He really held back when it came to men translating them into other languages.

 

[Mattithyah]

There are a couple of the prophesied events that haven't been fulfiled, but he is the Messiah, and he will fulfill those at his return.

I disagree. A few years ago I think I remember some one telling me that around 6,000 prophesies have been fulfilled; however, there are still a ton of them left to go. The one I like most is how Yahweh promised to restore the Earth to it's former beauty.

 

[Mattithyah]

Vor,

I assume that you when you quote the parenthetical note from your translation, "(Thus he declared all foods clean.)", at the end of verse 19, that you are suggesting that the Messiah was saying that unclean animals had been made clean. As Ronald has touched on, even if the parenthetical entry is authentic - some translations such as the "King James" and the "Interlinear Greek-English New Testament" don&#8217;t have it - I am not aware of any scripture that ever refers to unclean animals as "food". Thus He could only be saying that clean animals would not be made unclean by eating with unwashed hands. However, the context of verses 1-20, has to do with the Pharisees&#8217; practice of always washing their hands before eating. The subject is not clean and unclean animals, but unclean hands. The Messiah showed that unclean thoughts are the things that most defile a man, not just unwashed hands. After explaining that inner defilement of the mind is far worse than defilement of the body, the Messiah concluded, 19"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness blasphemies. 20"These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

The Pharisees watched every word and movement that the Messiah made. They falsely accused Him of breaking the Sabbath, and claimed that He blasphemed when He said God was His Father John 5:18. But never did any Jew ever accuse the Messiah of eating, or advocating the eating of unclean animals.

I believe those unclean 'foods' are still unclean, think that since they are full of diseases, parasites, and toxins that it should only be logical to continue to believe them to be unclean. I believe Yahweh, in His infinite wisdom, advised us what to eat and what not to eat. I figure, if anyone knows how the human body works...IT MUST BE THE GUY WHO DESIGNED AND CREATED ME, RIGHT?

In Deut 27 and 28 Mosheh, by inspiration of Yahweh, said that by not keeping and observing the Law we would heap curses and diseases upon ourselves. If the Law is no longer valid, why aren't those curses? I believe in the promises. Sadly, thousands of years of most people going their own way has resulted in an innumerable amount of diseases and genetic disorders, borderline WW3, homelessness, broken homes, inflation, DHS, pedophiles, etc. I refuse to believe that those promises don't still apply to anyone wanting to attain them...

Lifespans have decreased, the quality of life has decreased...sigh! The Hebrews were once the strongest and most fruitful people...what happened?

Ah...Hebrews...study the Scriptures... all of mankind descended from Adam and Eve...meaning....ALL PEOPLE ON EARTH ARE MEMBERS OF THE 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL

 

[Levite]

Christians have no obligation to keep kosher, because they aren't Jewish. The Torah and the commandments within it were only intended for the Jewish People, not for all human beings.

And, FTR, all people on earth are not members of the 12 Tribes of Israel. Just the Jewish people on earth.

 

[Pegg]

Mark 7:18-20



18And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him,
19because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared (A)all foods (B)clean.)
20And He was saying, "(C)That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man.
21"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,
22deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, (D)envy, slander, pride and foolishness.


My personal opinion is that this has to do with preaching about evil things to avoid and has nothing to do with food whatsoever. So what do you think? Should Christians keep Kosher? (it's part of the law)

remember

Matthew 5:18
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

John 19:30 When he had received the sour wine, Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!”+ and bowing his head, he gave up his spirit.*+

 

[Pegg]

Is it so hard to keep the Feasts or observe the Sabbath (not Sun-Day)?

If you dont live in an agricultural society, it might be just a tad difficult.
The festivals were seasonal and the offerings based on the produce of the ground. I dont farm, so what do I have from my field to bring to offer? Nothing. I also think it would be very difficult to observe those festivals without a jewish priesthood and temple.

Nor would it be easy for me to travel to Jerusalem every year the way the jews in Israel did.

 

[roger1440]

Mark 7:18-20



18And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him,
19because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared (A)all foods (B)clean.)
20And He was saying, "(C)That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man.
21"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,
22deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, (D)envy, slander, pride and foolishness.


My personal opinion is that this has to do with preaching about evil things to avoid and has nothing to do with food whatsoever. So what do you think? Should Christians keep Kosher? (it's part of the law)

remember

Matthew 5:18
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

When chicken comes in contact with pork, the chicken is now "defiled", according to the oral law. According to the written law all foods are clean. Keep in mind, pork is not food for a Jew.