Secret Chief
Vetted Member
It's a new thing isn't it. Headline stats just show case numbers and survival rates. My friend will most likely never be fit to work again. He was in the ICU (Intensive Care Unit) for a month.
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Keys to mild vs severe Coronavirus illness start to come into view
- Thread starter halbhh
- Start date
I'm not shocked. (Dismayed though.)
People operate with greatly different & even opposing information.
Just look at the vast gulf between people of different views about
gods, economics, governance, & science. Whatever can be
believed, there will be people who believe it with great fervor.
I know many who believe that Covid is no worse than the common flu.
The whole matter is a government plot to cow us all into submission.
When one lives in an echo chamber, whatever one hears is true.
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Onoma
Active Member
Recently published data suggests there is a link between viral loads ( High VS Low ) and mortality rates:
" A univariate survival analysis revealed a significant difference in survival probability between those with high viral load and those with low viral load "
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30354-4/fulltext
" A univariate survival analysis revealed a significant difference in survival probability between those with high viral load and those with low viral load "
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30354-4/fulltext
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
That's quite interesting, because it seems one of the beneficial things of the typical non-medical-grade (such as multi layer cloth or the increasingly popular disposable) masks many wear in public is that they help only by sharply reducing the amount of virus breathed in (via droplets) as contrasted to preventing any virus. By reducing the viral load at the outset, the immune system has more time to respond before viral load gets large, it would seem. This isn't widely understood I've found, and some seem to have the wrong idea that because these non medical grade masks do allow some virus to pass through in testing, that they are useless. If more of those individuals could learn instead how it's protective to simply reduce the amount of exposure to a much lower amount (by blocking droplets), then they could begin to understand how a non-medical mask is indeed useful and good to wear.
Onoma
Active Member
I'll say this
When you have an infection in the alveoli where micelles are created by normal breathing, that are basically little viral packages encapsulated in pulmonary surfactant, which comprise the smallest particles to be generated by the lungs and exhaled, then these dry in the air to a fraction of their original size ( In about 1/10 of a second ), what you have are essentially the exact same thing that both dry powder inhalant medications ( Pulmonary medications for example ) are delivered with ( Dry powdered micelles refined in a lab ) as well as modern bioweapons ( Micelles in the field of bioweapons are called, iirc, " reverse engineered natural carriers " )
The Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention PDF ( See page 53 )
These little structures ( micelles ) have been known about for a long time and are part of any basic 1st year chemistry curriculum ( This also is what happens when soap bubbles come in contact with each other )
The reason they work so well to deliver something like a drug ( or a virus or toxin ) is something called " lipid membrane fusion " . Basically the micelle has very similar chemical properties to your lung surfactant, so when you inhale it, because of it's small size, it is delivered directly to the deepest recesses of the lungs ( The alveoli ) where it readily " fuses " with the surfactant in the alveoli whereupon it makes it's way directly into the bloodstream ( This is why micelles are a very effective drug delivery system )
That's what makes this virus so tricky
There are no other viruses ( afaik ) that are so readily aerosolized and inhaled into the deepest recesses of the lungs
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
At the CDC website it seems as if (link below) the idea is that a large amount of expelled viral particles are in droplets -- the tiny droplets such as are produced in a sneeze or cough or laugh for instance, or loud talking, produced even if there is no virus, already.
These droplets are constantly produced, but could also carry virus if one is present.
COVID-19 spreads mainly from person to person through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice (e.g., while shouting, chanting, or singing). These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. Recent studies show that a significant portion of individuals with COVID-19 lack symptoms (are “asymptomatic”) and that even those who eventually develop symptoms (are “pre-symptomatic”) can transmit the virus to others before showing symptoms.
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
So, the idea appears to be that much of the viral transmission is via these relatively large droplets (far larger than a virus particle or envelope, such as 1000x or more). And these droplets being larger, and also I guess having water, are easier for the multilayer densely woven cloth or disposable masks to capture. In order for these non-medical grade masks to help, it would seem to me that much of the viral load in that exposure must be through droplets (just as an illustrative number, some predominate large amount like 95% or 99+%, etc.)
Onoma
Active Member
Right
So what you have are basically smaller and smaller particles produced in the lungs as you travel into the smaller spaces
Large, medium and small droplets are generally thought to come from the upper to middle respiratory system and it is the act of coughing / sneezing that generates them
However, in the alveoli, ( Where he Covid-19 virus infects the epithelial cells - type II ) micron or submicron sized particles are generated without the act of coughing or sneezing ( Although they are also generated in those cases )
So, where you have other infections taking place usually in the upper to middle respiratory pathways ( SARS, for example was middle to upper ), this virus is distinct from the other pathogens in that it is specifically in the area where submicron aerosols are generated during the course of natural breathing
This is in the alveoli
The Covid-19 virus would be found in these small aerosols ( In addition to larger droplets )
A comparison to the general areas of infection between 4 well known pathogens
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
Another article I just read, with a strong suggestion interferon given at the right moment could be a valuable treatment --
"...With most viruses, “if you generate a robust interferon response within a few minutes of exposure to the virus, you’re likely going to be fine.
But, says Iwasaki, “in the case of COVID, this well-orchestrated line of events isn’t happening.” The virus shuts down the interferon response early on. That allows the virus to invade the lungs and do damage without setting off early intruder alarms. Other immune chemicals, called cytokines and chemokines, flood the damaged area attempting to expel invaders and heal the tissue, but can set off a “cytokine storm” that further batters tissues. The high levels of interferon alpha seen in severely ill patients may be produced by cells that don’t normally make those chemicals in a last-ditch effort to combat the virus, Iwasaki says."
“The earlier you can control the virus, the less damage you’re going to get,” Iwasaki says. And one promising way of potentially controlling the virus early is by giving people interferons.
Fish and others have already compiled data suggesting that two forms of the drug, interferon alpha and interferon beta, may help fight the coronavirus. In a small study of 77 people with COVID-19, Fish and colleagues found that interferon alpha helped clear viral infections almost seven days sooner on average than people given arbidol hydrochloride, a drug thought to block viral entry to cells.
What’s more, ramping up interferon didn’t lead to an overzealous immune response, as feared. In fact, people taking interferon had lower levels of an inflammatory protein called IL-6 in their blood than those taking the other drug...
...
More trials of interferon alpha, beta and of interferon lambda are in the works. ... The U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases announced August 5 that it has begun a clinical trial of about 1,000 hospitalized people
... But Iwasaki’s study hints that it may be too late to give interferons once a person is already sick enough to be hospitalized.
... Giving interferons as soon as possible after detecting a coronavirus infection may prevent severe illness and speed recovery..."
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-immune-system-early-treatment-interferon
"...With most viruses, “if you generate a robust interferon response within a few minutes of exposure to the virus, you’re likely going to be fine.
But, says Iwasaki, “in the case of COVID, this well-orchestrated line of events isn’t happening.” The virus shuts down the interferon response early on. That allows the virus to invade the lungs and do damage without setting off early intruder alarms. Other immune chemicals, called cytokines and chemokines, flood the damaged area attempting to expel invaders and heal the tissue, but can set off a “cytokine storm” that further batters tissues. The high levels of interferon alpha seen in severely ill patients may be produced by cells that don’t normally make those chemicals in a last-ditch effort to combat the virus, Iwasaki says."
“The earlier you can control the virus, the less damage you’re going to get,” Iwasaki says. And one promising way of potentially controlling the virus early is by giving people interferons.
Fish and others have already compiled data suggesting that two forms of the drug, interferon alpha and interferon beta, may help fight the coronavirus. In a small study of 77 people with COVID-19, Fish and colleagues found that interferon alpha helped clear viral infections almost seven days sooner on average than people given arbidol hydrochloride, a drug thought to block viral entry to cells.
What’s more, ramping up interferon didn’t lead to an overzealous immune response, as feared. In fact, people taking interferon had lower levels of an inflammatory protein called IL-6 in their blood than those taking the other drug...
...
More trials of interferon alpha, beta and of interferon lambda are in the works. ... The U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases announced August 5 that it has begun a clinical trial of about 1,000 hospitalized people
... But Iwasaki’s study hints that it may be too late to give interferons once a person is already sick enough to be hospitalized.
... Giving interferons as soon as possible after detecting a coronavirus infection may prevent severe illness and speed recovery..."
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-immune-system-early-treatment-interferon
Onoma
Active Member
There's a new drug being investigated - RLF-100 (Aviptadil)
Seems to be very successful bringing patients off ventilators - it's main benefits are that it prevents apoptosis, blocks cytokines, lowers TNFα levels, reverses CD4/CD8 ratio
Does make me curious why cannabinoids haven't really been brought up, there are many published papers detailing cytokine suppression by cannabinoids, both endo and phytocannabinoids
Seems to be very successful bringing patients off ventilators - it's main benefits are that it prevents apoptosis, blocks cytokines, lowers TNFα levels, reverses CD4/CD8 ratio
Does make me curious why cannabinoids haven't really been brought up, there are many published papers detailing cytokine suppression by cannabinoids, both endo and phytocannabinoids