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King George is now in charge of City of Laurel, Maryland!

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
May 21, 2018
Suppose a church becomes convicted to minister to the inner city. And its conviction turns into a vision to operate a “come one, come all” non-profit coffee shop where it can serve and build relationships with the local community during the week, while providing them the opportunity to hear the Gospel at its worship services on the weekend.

Sounds great, right?

Well, that’s exactly what ADF Church Alliance member Redemption Community Church tried to do. Obeying the call, the church sold its property outside the city – donating a large portion of its proceeds to other local religious non-profits in the city – and moved right onto Main Street. Then, the church prepared to roll out its ministry plan.

Except the city had other plans.

At every turn, the City of Laurel, Maryland has done its best to block this church from following its calling. In February 2018, Alliance Defending Freedom filed a lawsuit on behalf of this Church Alliance member.

Within days of the church purchasing its new building, the city “coincidentally” changed the law to exclude non-profit businesses from the area. If that wasn’t bad enough, a few weeks later, the city changed the law again.

This time, the city passed a law that forces churches on lots less than one acre – essentially every church in the area – to go through a costly and burdensome process to obtain what the city calls a “special exception.” The application process isn’t just a formality, either. Churches who apply can still be denied their request at the end of it all.

These changes rendered the church’s newly purchased property useless for its intended plans. However, because of its continued desire and vision to minister to downtown Laurel, the church tried to adapt by starting a for-profit coffee shop that would operate as a means to serve and connect with the local community Monday through Saturday. Then, it would use the building on Sundays to hold church services when the coffee shop was closed.

But the city was not going to allow that either.

Instead, the city has threatened the church with daily fines if it does not immediately stop all worship gatherings in its building.

This is blatant discrimination. The city does not place these restrictions on similar secular buildings or institutions. ADF is here to ensure this church, and all churches, are treated equally and have the freedom to live and preach the Gospel in their community.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Here is a hint, try to find at least one unbiased source that supports your claims. Relying on only one side in a lawsuit will never give a full picture of what is going on.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
May 21, 2018
Suppose a church becomes convicted to minister to the inner city. And its conviction turns into a vision to operate a “come one, come all” non-profit coffee shop where it can serve and build relationships with the local community during the week, while providing them the opportunity to hear the Gospel at its worship services on the weekend.

Sounds great, right?

Well, that’s exactly what ADF Church Alliance member Redemption Community Church tried to do. Obeying the call, the church sold its property outside the city – donating a large portion of its proceeds to other local religious non-profits in the city – and moved right onto Main Street. Then, the church prepared to roll out its ministry plan.

Except the city had other plans.

At every turn, the City of Laurel, Maryland has done its best to block this church from following its calling. In February 2018, Alliance Defending Freedom filed a lawsuit on behalf of this Church Alliance member.

Within days of the church purchasing its new building, the city “coincidentally” changed the law to exclude non-profit businesses from the area. If that wasn’t bad enough, a few weeks later, the city changed the law again.

This time, the city passed a law that forces churches on lots less than one acre – essentially every church in the area – to go through a costly and burdensome process to obtain what the city calls a “special exception.” The application process isn’t just a formality, either. Churches who apply can still be denied their request at the end of it all.

These changes rendered the church’s newly purchased property useless for its intended plans. However, because of its continued desire and vision to minister to downtown Laurel, the church tried to adapt by starting a for-profit coffee shop that would operate as a means to serve and connect with the local community Monday through Saturday. Then, it would use the building on Sundays to hold church services when the coffee shop was closed.

But the city was not going to allow that either.

Instead, the city has threatened the church with daily fines if it does not immediately stop all worship gatherings in its building.

This is blatant discrimination. The city does not place these restrictions on similar secular buildings or institutions. ADF is here to ensure this church, and all churches, are treated equally and have the freedom to live and preach the Gospel in their community.

City planning is a typical method people use to accomplish their agenda with little risk to themselves. The US has a history of it.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
City planning is a typical method people use to accomplish their agenda with little risk to themselves. The US has a history of it.

So true. A back-door approach. Fortunately there are legal routes one can take. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
May 21, 2018
Suppose a church becomes convicted to minister to the inner city. And its conviction turns into a vision to operate a “come one, come all” non-profit coffee shop where it can serve and build relationships with the local community during the week, while providing them the opportunity to hear the Gospel at its worship services on the weekend.

Sounds great, right?

Well, that’s exactly what ADF Church Alliance member Redemption Community Church tried to do. Obeying the call, the church sold its property outside the city – donating a large portion of its proceeds to other local religious non-profits in the city – and moved right onto Main Street. Then, the church prepared to roll out its ministry plan.

Except the city had other plans.

At every turn, the City of Laurel, Maryland has done its best to block this church from following its calling. In February 2018, Alliance Defending Freedom filed a lawsuit on behalf of this Church Alliance member.

Within days of the church purchasing its new building, the city “coincidentally” changed the law to exclude non-profit businesses from the area. If that wasn’t bad enough, a few weeks later, the city changed the law again.

This time, the city passed a law that forces churches on lots less than one acre – essentially every church in the area – to go through a costly and burdensome process to obtain what the city calls a “special exception.” The application process isn’t just a formality, either. Churches who apply can still be denied their request at the end of it all.

These changes rendered the church’s newly purchased property useless for its intended plans. However, because of its continued desire and vision to minister to downtown Laurel, the church tried to adapt by starting a for-profit coffee shop that would operate as a means to serve and connect with the local community Monday through Saturday. Then, it would use the building on Sundays to hold church services when the coffee shop was closed.

But the city was not going to allow that either.

Instead, the city has threatened the church with daily fines if it does not immediately stop all worship gatherings in its building.

This is blatant discrimination. The city does not place these restrictions on similar secular buildings or institutions. ADF is here to ensure this church, and all churches, are treated equally and have the freedom to live and preach the Gospel in their community.

Isn't ADF an anti-gay rights group?
I don't know about Redemption Community Church but the name doesn't sound promising.

It's one thing to have a religious outreach program to help a community. It's another to try to criminalize homosexuality again, which from what I understand ADF was involved with.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
No, it is simply a requirement to follow the laws, they were not honest in their application and as a result the city council made their laws clearer. Not even this Christian news site seems to think that the church has a good case:

https://www.christianpost.com/news/...ffin-coffee-shop-sues-laurel-maryland-217620/
I don't read that article that way at all. It lays out the back-and-forth events but reaches no such conclusion that I can find.

The thesis in the OP that this is deliberate discrimination is, however, unproven at this point and will be litigated. I tend to believe that the city is wrong but don't believe that the church's contention is proven at this point.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I don't read that article that way at all. It lays out the back-and-forth events but reaches no such conclusion that I can find.

The thesis in the OP that this is deliberate discrimination is, however, unproven at this point and will be litigated. I tend to believe that the city is wrong but don't believe that the church's contention is proven at this point.

The use of scare quotes should have been a hint:

Redemption Community Church, which oversees a non-profit coffee shop called Ragamuffins Coffee House, is suing the city of Laurel over a zoning law that requires it to undergo what it calls a "costly" and "uncertain" special exception, even while non-religious assemblies do not have to, according to the lawsuit.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
No, it is simply a requirement to follow the laws, they were not honest in their application and as a result the city council made their laws clearer. Not even this Christian news site seems to think that the church has a good case:

https://www.christianpost.com/news/...ffin-coffee-shop-sues-laurel-maryland-217620/
I didn't see anything that would come to that conclussion... Did I miss a part? And it didn't mention the fact that they changed the law after they purchased the store... so it seems that this news outlet didn't provide all the infomation
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I didn't see anything that would come to that conclussion... Did I miss a part? And it didn't mention the fact that they changed the law after they purchased the store... so it seems that this news outlet didn't provide all the infomation
Yes, you did. It was rather obvious. Read it again and pay attention to the scare quotes this time.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Isn't ADF an anti-gay rights group?
I don't know about Redemption Community Church but the name doesn't sound promising.

It's one thing to have a religious outreach program to help a community. It's another to try to criminalize homosexuality again, which from what I understand ADF was involved with.

Not sure where you were going with this. What does this have to do with freedom of starting a church? Are we creating a different subject to supress the issue?
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
May 21, 2018
Suppose a church becomes convicted to minister to the inner city. And its conviction turns into a vision to operate a “come one, come all” non-profit coffee shop where it can serve and build relationships with the local community during the week, while providing them the opportunity to hear the Gospel at its worship services on the weekend.

Sounds great, right?

Well, that’s exactly what ADF Church Alliance member Redemption Community Church tried to do. Obeying the call, the church sold its property outside the city – donating a large portion of its proceeds to other local religious non-profits in the city – and moved right onto Main Street. Then, the church prepared to roll out its ministry plan.

Except the city had other plans.

At every turn, the City of Laurel, Maryland has done its best to block this church from following its calling. In February 2018, Alliance Defending Freedom filed a lawsuit on behalf of this Church Alliance member.

Within days of the church purchasing its new building, the city “coincidentally” changed the law to exclude non-profit businesses from the area. If that wasn’t bad enough, a few weeks later, the city changed the law again.

This time, the city passed a law that forces churches on lots less than one acre – essentially every church in the area – to go through a costly and burdensome process to obtain what the city calls a “special exception.” The application process isn’t just a formality, either. Churches who apply can still be denied their request at the end of it all.

These changes rendered the church’s newly purchased property useless for its intended plans. However, because of its continued desire and vision to minister to downtown Laurel, the church tried to adapt by starting a for-profit coffee shop that would operate as a means to serve and connect with the local community Monday through Saturday. Then, it would use the building on Sundays to hold church services when the coffee shop was closed.

But the city was not going to allow that either.

Instead, the city has threatened the church with daily fines if it does not immediately stop all worship gatherings in its building.

This is blatant discrimination. The city does not place these restrictions on similar secular buildings or institutions. ADF is here to ensure this church, and all churches, are treated equally and have the freedom to live and preach the Gospel in their community.
I think the new law makes sense, but, in this specific circumstance, it is basically a government taking. The Church should be compensated for any funds lost on the property. But, the law is meant to grow the number of businesses in downtown Laurel and increase foot traffic ... both very good things for the community.

Couldn't members of the church just open up a real coffee shop there, charge people for coffee, and preach to their customers. Not that it would be a successful endeavor in my opinion, but it seems to get around the law.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Two people say there was no conclussion... I think you are reading what you want to read into it.
Two people have poor reading skills.

Do you not even know the purpose of scare quotes? Let me help you:

Scare quotes - Wikipedia

"Scare quotes (also called shudder quotes,[1][2] sneer quotes,[3] and quibble marks) are quotation marks a writer places around a word or phrase to signal that they are using it in a non-standard, ironic, or otherwise special sense.[4] Scare quotes may express that the author is using someone else's term, similar to preceding a phrase with the expression "so-called";[5] they may imply skepticism or disagreement, belief that the words are misused, or that the writer intends a meaning opposite to the words enclosed in quotes."
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I think the new law makes sense, but, in this specific circumstance, it is basically a government taking. The Church should be compensated for any funds lost on the property. But, the law is meant to grow the number of businesses in downtown Laurel and increase foot traffic ... both very good things for the community.

Couldn't members of the church just open up a real coffee shop there, charge people for coffee, and preach to their customers. Not that it would be a successful endeavor in my opinion, but it seems to get around the law.
Unless I read it incorrectly, I believe that is what they tried to do as a for-profit business but, apparently, their church service when the shop was closed on Sunday morning was too much for the city. Not sure how much traffic there is on a Sunday morning, I think most businesses open late on a Sunday morning just because most people are recovering from a long Saturday night.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Two people have poor reading skills.

Do you not even know the purpose of scare quotes? Let me help you:

Scare quotes - Wikipedia

"Scare quotes (also called shudder quotes,[1][2] sneer quotes,[3] and quibble marks) are quotation marks a writer places around a word or phrase to signal that they are using it in a non-standard, ironic, or otherwise special sense.[4] Scare quotes may express that the author is using someone else's term, similar to preceding a phrase with the expression "so-called";[5] they may imply skepticism or disagreement, belief that the words are misused, or that the writer intends a meaning opposite to the words enclosed in quotes."
I think it is you who is using scare tactics :D
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I think it is you who is using scare tactics :D
Hardly. I found a superior source to yours, yet still a Christian group and they did not appear to agree with you. All you could find to support your claims were extremely biased sources.

This is not a matter of "King George" it appears to be the actions of a dishonest church. They did not reveal their intentions from the start and as a result the city council merely made the laws clearer. Nor were the fees excessive or unreasonable. The church that you referred to simply does not want to follow the rules of that town.

The sad thing about this is that serious churches in that town will now find it more difficult to do their work due to the abuses of this rather small one.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Not sure where you were going with this. What does this have to do with freedom of starting a church? Are we creating a different subject to supress the issue?

I'm just suspicious of the agenda of the church and whether maybe they see this agenda as more the threat than the establishment of a non-profit coffee shop.

Like I don't know if I'd be happy with Fred Phelps opening up a downtown coffee shop as a religious outreach program. The association with ADF makes it a little troubling. Maybe it's nothing, maybe it's something. However I'd think this would be the only reason the city council might be concerned.

Edit: So haven't come across anything showing this is an anti-gay organization. Didn't see anything in the city council's response to indicate this either. The law does seem to target this group in a specific way. Just thinking there has to be more than anti-religion bias behind it.
 
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