Knowing God

[Clara Tea]

The scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit is central to a person’s adoption as a child of God [Romans 8:15-17].



God is one [Deut. 6:4; Gal. 3:20]

God is (a) Spirit [John 4:24]

They that believe on him [Jesus Christ] receive the Spirit [John 7:39]

He that is joined to the Lord [Jesus Christ] is one spirit [1 Cor. 6:17]

They must worship him [God] in spirit and in truth [John 4:24]



Ephesians 2:18

‘For through him [Jesus Christ] we both [Jew and Gentile] have access by one Spirit [the Holy Spirit] unto the Father.’

John 14:6

‘no man cometh unto the Father, but by me [Jesus Christ]’

Philippians 2:2

‘Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.’

Ephesians 4:4-6

‘Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.’



True fellowship, peace, and unity, (we are told) comes through the indwelling Holy Spirit.



Q: Can any person claim to know God if he/she does not know, and follow, Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit, received by grace?

The scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit is central to a person’s adoption as a child of God [Romans 8:15-17].



God is one [Deut. 6:4; Gal. 3:20]

God is (a) Spirit [John 4:24]

They that believe on him [Jesus Christ] receive the Spirit [John 7:39]

He that is joined to the Lord [Jesus Christ] is one spirit [1 Cor. 6:17]

They must worship him [God] in spirit and in truth [John 4:24]



Ephesians 2:18

‘For through him [Jesus Christ] we both [Jew and Gentile] have access by one Spirit [the Holy Spirit] unto the Father.’

John 14:6

‘no man cometh unto the Father, but by me [Jesus Christ]’

Philippians 2:2

‘Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.’

Ephesians 4:4-6

‘Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.’



True fellowship, peace, and unity, (we are told) comes through the indwelling Holy Spirit.



Q: Can any person claim to know God if he/she does not know, and follow, Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit, received by grace?

Clara Tea's opinion:

Trinity is wrong. God is the only God (as God said in the bible), not split in three (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Bible contradictions are misinterpretations, or rewritten by the Vatican, which pushed the Trinity idea, or the bible was rewritten by kings.

Prediction of a Messiah came from Jews, written in ancient Hebrew. Jews were enslaved and forced to not speak Hebrew, so they had to relearn "modern" Hebrew, and forced to not worship their bibles (all destroyed), so had to rewrite bibles from memory. Modern Hebrew is different than ancient Hebrew, so interpretations are close but not exact. Kings have ordered parts of bibles (Old and New testaments) changed. King Henry VIII made his own Anglican religion, and forced people to practice it, with himself in charge, and forced the sale of many churches.

Jews, who could speak modern Hebrew, could understand their bibles and their prophecies better than those who could not speak Hebrew at all. So, Jews could understand the prophecy of a Messiah better than Christians.

Jews didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

In the New Testament, Jesus appears to claim that He (Jesus) is God. This is a direct contradiction of parts of the bible that quote God saying that He (God) is only one, and He (God) is the only God, and that there will be no other (god-pretender).

I believe that God is not one entity, but trillions of spirits. I believe that God puts one Soul in one human, which guides him/her to do good or evil, and the evil ones got to hell, an the good ones return to God. This purifies God. But, that is not one spirit, but it is trillions of spirits that agree as one. Catholics insist that God doesn't need purification because God is perfect, and hundreds of years ago, Catholics tortured a scientist who thought that meteors fell from the sky (imperfect heaven?). All good parts of God (Souls) agree with all other good Souls, so all say the same things. Since Souls have had thousands of years to communicate, they all use the same wording (say the same things in the same words).

Some believe that it is blasphemy to claim to be God. But, claiming that we have access to God through our spirits (part of God) would be right.

 

[Psalm23]

The scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit is central to a person’s adoption as a child of God [Romans 8:15-17].



God is one [Deut. 6:4; Gal. 3:20]

God is (a) Spirit [John 4:24]

They that believe on him [Jesus Christ] receive the Spirit [John 7:39]

He that is joined to the Lord [Jesus Christ] is one spirit [1 Cor. 6:17]

They must worship him [God] in spirit and in truth [John 4:24]



Ephesians 2:18

‘For through him [Jesus Christ] we both [Jew and Gentile] have access by one Spirit [the Holy Spirit] unto the Father.’

John 14:6

‘no man cometh unto the Father, but by me [Jesus Christ]’

Philippians 2:2

‘Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.’

Ephesians 4:4-6

‘Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.’



True fellowship, peace, and unity, (we are told) comes through the indwelling Holy Spirit.



Q: Can any person claim to know God if he/she does not know, and follow, Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit, received by grace?

The question feels a bit vague. Questions that come to mind are what does it mean to know and follow Christ? I recognize that no Christian in the world will follow Christ perfectly or know God fully.

 

[InChrist]

The scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit is central to a person’s adoption as a child of God [Romans 8:15-17].



God is one [Deut. 6:4; Gal. 3:20]

God is (a) Spirit [John 4:24]

They that believe on him [Jesus Christ] receive the Spirit [John 7:39]

He that is joined to the Lord [Jesus Christ] is one spirit [1 Cor. 6:17]

They must worship him [God] in spirit and in truth [John 4:24]



Ephesians 2:18

‘For through him [Jesus Christ] we both [Jew and Gentile] have access by one Spirit [the Holy Spirit] unto the Father.’

John 14:6

‘no man cometh unto the Father, but by me [Jesus Christ]’

Philippians 2:2

‘Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.’

Ephesians 4:4-6

‘Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.’



True fellowship, peace, and unity, (we are told) comes through the indwelling Holy Spirit.



Q: Can any person claim to know God if he/she does not know, and follow, Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit, received by grace?

I don’t believe a person can know God without being saved by the Savior Jesus Christ and receiving the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit, by grace. People can know about God, maybe even believe in God to one degree or another, but reconciliation and relationship with God is available only through Christ, according to
1 Timothy 2:5, as well as those you posted and others.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Sorry, I got confused.

This is the proof:

John (a) is asked if he is the Messiah (who Jesus is instead the one from the line of David (a)) is promised to rule. But "the Prophet" is someone different then that.

Jesus (a) said he is the Messiah and the Messiah is different then "the Prophet". Elijah is different then both. All three are set to come, Elijah (a) is to return, the Prophet (s) is to come, and Messiah (a) from family of David (a) is to come. Jesus (a) picks one of these three.

Jesus (a) and Gospels remind of these different prophecies. The Prophet compared to Moses (a) is an initiator of a community and structure of kings anointed by God. Moses is a start point followed by successors. He foundational. Jesus (a) is the Messiah from the line of David (a) and the star of the family of David (a) but is not the initial founder, but the end point of the successors.

Out of those three things, Jesus (a) didn't claim to be Elijah (a) or the Prophet (s), but the Messiah (a) from the line of David (a) who rule the world at the end times.

John (a) is asked about three distinct prophecy of persons to come, and he is none of these three.

According to Christian scriptures, Jesus cannot be the 'end point' because he initiates or begins the building of the temple, or Church, of God. This temple is spiritual, and is based on receiving baptism in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Know God? Follow Christ "through" the Holy Spirit? Why "Through" anything? Cant God hear?

The problem lies with humans, not God. Salvation comes from God.

 

[Redemptionsong]

There is a class of experience which I believe reveals that one has had an experience of God. I talk about it at length in this thread The God Dream

This is a class of experience found in Genesis and maybe in Acts (Saul/Paul conversion). But it is not specifically Christian.

I agree that God does reveal himself in many ways, but some experiences are for the sole purpose of awakening people to the truth.

I believe the baptism in Holy Spirit is for all who have faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Clara Tea's opinion:

Trinity is wrong. God is the only God (as God said in the bible), not split in three (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Bible contradictions are misinterpretations, or rewritten by the Vatican, which pushed the Trinity idea, or the bible was rewritten by kings.

Prediction of a Messiah came from Jews, written in ancient Hebrew. Jews were enslaved and forced to not speak Hebrew, so they had to relearn "modern" Hebrew, and forced to not worship their bibles (all destroyed), so had to rewrite bibles from memory. Modern Hebrew is different than ancient Hebrew, so interpretations are close but not exact. Kings have ordered parts of bibles (Old and New testaments) changed. King Henry VIII made his own Anglican religion, and forced people to practice it, with himself in charge, and forced the sale of many churches.

Jews, who could speak modern Hebrew, could understand their bibles and their prophecies better than those who could not speak Hebrew at all. So, Jews could understand the prophecy of a Messiah better than Christians.

Jews didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

In the New Testament, Jesus appears to claim that He (Jesus) is God. This is a direct contradiction of parts of the bible that quote God saying that He (God) is only one, and He (God) is the only God, and that there will be no other (god-pretender).

I believe that God is not one entity, but trillions of spirits. I believe that God puts one Soul in one human, which guides him/her to do good or evil, and the evil ones got to hell, an the good ones return to God. This purifies God. But, that is not one spirit, but it is trillions of spirits that agree as one. Catholics insist that God doesn't need purification because God is perfect, and hundreds of years ago, Catholics tortured a scientist who thought that meteors fell from the sky (imperfect heaven?). All good parts of God (Souls) agree with all other good Souls, so all say the same things. Since Souls have had thousands of years to communicate, they all use the same wording (say the same things in the same words).

Some believe that it is blasphemy to claim to be God. But, claiming that we have access to God through our spirits (part of God) would be right.

I quoted Ephesians 4:6. Do you believe this scripture?

 

[firedragon]

The problem lies with humans, not God. Salvation comes from God.

My God. Your response is so irrelevant its unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The question feels a bit vague. Questions that come to mind are what does it mean to know and follow Christ? I recognize that no Christian in the world will follow Christ perfectly or know God fully.

It's true that none of us can fully know God. Nevertheless, lMO, having the indwelling Holy Spirit is the start of a relationship of knowledge and the foundation for growth.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Please tell me your a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. I have not met a Non-LDS Christian that holds any of these scriptures seriously because of Sola Scriptura and Faith alone not works lead to salvation, the trinity as taught by the creeds, etc.

Do you see heresy in what l'm suggesting?

 

[Redemptionsong]

The question feels a bit vague. Questions that come to mind are what does it mean to know and follow Christ? I recognize that no Christian in the world will follow Christ perfectly or know God fully.

Having had time to give your questions some thought, I would like to say that knowing and following Christ is all about love. I don't think that a sinful human being truly understands the nature of God's love and righteousness. It is only when a person experiences repentance, a breaking of self will, that the light and holiness of God can enter in. This is why the core to Christian life is 'repent and believe'. God is able to do the rest.

 

[Redemptionsong]

There are some interesting scriptures that talk about the knowledge of God.

In Hosea 4:1,2 it says, 'Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.
By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.'

1 Corinthians 15:34. 'Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.'

It seems to me that in Christ, all should have a knowledge of God. Why? Because the indwelling Spirit of God is the Spirit of righteousness.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Jeremiah 31:33,34.
'But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and will remember their sin no more.'

 

[shunyadragon]

Clara Tea's opinion:

Trinity is wrong. God is the only God (as God said in the bible), not split in three (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Bible contradictions are misinterpretations, or rewritten by the Vatican, which pushed the Trinity idea, or the bible was rewritten by kings.

Prediction of a Messiah came from Jews, written in ancient Hebrew. Jews were enslaved and forced to not speak Hebrew, so they had to relearn "modern" Hebrew, and forced to not worship their bibles (all destroyed), so had to rewrite bibles from memory. Modern Hebrew is different than ancient Hebrew, so interpretations are close but not exact. Kings have ordered parts of bibles (Old and New testaments) changed. King Henry VIII made his own Anglican religion, and forced people to practice it, with himself in charge, and forced the sale of many churches.

Jews, who could speak modern Hebrew, could understand their bibles and their prophecies better than those who could not speak Hebrew at all. So, Jews could understand the prophecy of a Messiah better than Christians.

Jews didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

In the New Testament, Jesus appears to claim that He (Jesus) is God. This is a direct contradiction of parts of the bible that quote God saying that He (God) is only one, and He (God) is the only God, and that there will be no other (god-pretender).

I believe that God is not one entity, but trillions of spirits. I believe that God puts one Soul in one human, which guides him/her to do good or evil, and the evil ones got to hell, an the good ones return to God. This purifies God. But, that is not one spirit, but it is trillions of spirits that agree as one. Catholics insist that God doesn't need purification because God is perfect, and hundreds of years ago, Catholics tortured a scientist who thought that meteors fell from the sky (imperfect heaven?). All good parts of God (Souls) agree with all other good Souls, so all say the same things. Since Souls have had thousands of years to communicate, they all use the same wording (say the same things in the same words).

Some believe that it is blasphemy to claim to be God. But, claiming that we have access to God through our spirits (part of God) would be right.

This reflects the riffs, and divisions in different divisions of Christianity that each claim their view is the only right and 'real view. It clearly demonstrates the subjective view of religious beliefs.

 

[Psalm23]

Having had time to give your questions some thought, I would like to say that knowing and following Christ is all about love. I don't think that a sinful human being truly understands the nature of God's love and righteousness. It is only when a person experiences repentance, a breaking of self will, that the light and holiness of God can enter in. This is why the core to Christian life is 'repent and believe'. God is able to do the rest.

Makes sense considering what Jesus said when asked what was the greatest commandment.

 

[Redemptionsong]

This reflects the riffs, and divisions in different divisions of Christianity that each claim their view is the only right and 'real view. It clearly demonstrates the subjective view of religious beliefs.

Paul was very clear, when speaking to the Church, that the Holy Spirit is the author of good fruit only. The 'fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law' [Galatians 3:22,23].

To notice the divisions within Christianity is recognition that not all who call themselves Christians walk by the Spirit of God (or are truly 'born again'). What do they walk by, instead? They walk by the flesh - the works of which are, 'Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:' [Galatians 3:19-21]

Jesus Christ wants us to be spiritually minded. As Paul says, 'That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit' [Romans 8:4,5].

Therefore, IMO, the question that each seeker of God should be asking themselves is the question Paul posed to the Ephesians, 'Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?'

 

[Bree]

The scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit is central to a person’s adoption as a child of God [Romans 8:15-17].



God is one [Deut. 6:4; Gal. 3:20]

God is (a) Spirit [John 4:24]

They that believe on him [Jesus Christ] receive the Spirit [John 7:39]

He that is joined to the Lord [Jesus Christ] is one spirit [1 Cor. 6:17]

They must worship him [God] in spirit and in truth [John 4:24]



Ephesians 2:18

‘For through him [Jesus Christ] we both [Jew and Gentile] have access by one Spirit [the Holy Spirit] unto the Father.’

John 14:6

‘no man cometh unto the Father, but by me [Jesus Christ]’

Philippians 2:2

‘Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.’

Ephesians 4:4-6

‘Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.’



True fellowship, peace, and unity, (we are told) comes through the indwelling Holy Spirit.



Q: Can any person claim to know God if he/she does not know, and follow, Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit, received by grace?

If a person truly knows God, it will be reflected in their personality.
Gods spirit is reflected in those who have put on the 'new personality' which is made according to Gods will

Eph 4:22 You were taught to put away the old personality+ that conforms to your former course of conduct and that is being corrupted according to its deceptive desires.+ 23 And you should continue to be made new in your dominant mental attitude,+ 24 and should put on the new personality+ that was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty.


Only when the new personality is put on by a christian, will the holy spirit 'indwell' in that person.

 

[shunyadragon]

Paul was very clear, when speaking to the Church, that the Holy Spirit is the author of good fruit only. The 'fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law' [Galatians 3:22,23].

To notice the divisions within Christianity is recognition that not all who call themselves Christians walk by the Spirit of God (or are truly 'born again'). What do they walk by, instead? They walk by the flesh - the works of which are, 'Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:' [Galatians 3:19-21]

Jesus Christ wants us to be spiritually minded. As Paul says, 'That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit' [Romans 8:4,5].

Therefore, IMO, the question that each seeker of God should be asking themselves is the question Paul posed to the Ephesians, 'Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?'

This only further exemplifies problem between different religions and amongst the divisions of religions where they all say they ae 'real and true' believers only, and cite.ancient scripture without provenance that what they believe is 'proven.'

 

[firedragon]

I don’t believe a person can know God without being saved by the Savior Jesus Christ and receiving the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit, by grace. People can know about God, maybe even believe in God to one degree or another, but reconciliation and relationship with God is available only through Christ, according to
1 Timothy 2:5, as well as those you posted and others.

Have you ever thought who wrote Timothy?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I believe that God is not one entity, but trillions of spirits..

I believe something very similar.
G-d is infinite in nature. Our souls all belong to Him.