Most Jews, Christian and Muslims that will not admit they are possibly wrong.
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Knowing God
- Thread starter Redemptionsong
- Start date
Most Jews, Christian and Muslims that will not admit they are possibly wrong.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Bad analogy and a tu quoque fallacy.
firedragon
Veteran Member
How is that relevant? Lol. Tu Quoque??
Maybe you hate islam and you have been indoctrinated to hate islam so you just cant help it but bring in hatred even if the topic is about something completely different. You wish to play the tu quoque game. No problem. Go ahead.
Anyway, you pretended to be a master in Islam and said that Islam does not have independent exploration or something like that. I asked you. What do you think Akal is in Islam. Since you know Islam so well enough to give Islamic Fatawas like that, why not answer such basic questions? If you dont know why not just say you dont know?
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
One aspect of God, that is not often discussed, is the observation, based on biblical traditions, of how God does not use or need technology. Jesus, for example, never used any high tech for his miracles.
In the world of Atheists, the pseudo-gods of science fiction, often from advanced alien cultures, use technology to extend the potentials and abilities of otherwise spoiled and cruel children. Star Trek uses advanced tech to look fancy; teleport, but the characters are still limited by their human frailty.
The person under the technology, has not evolved as much as the technology. They may appears larger than life but this is more based on their higher level technical prosthesis and the prestige this offers them in the eyes of others.
The evil villains of sci-fi are often similar to Hitler; universal conquest at any cost, but with better tech. However, they have the same vanity leading to their own demise, when their tech is compromised. The impression I get is atheists are not told to learn and grow in wisdom, but simply buy better tech to create the illusion of having risen above; dress for success.
God, on the other hand, is shown as highly advanced from the inside out. He is never depicted with technical prosthesis. He does not need a special weapon. Although tech was often the case in obsolete Mythology; hammer of Thor. God of Hosts, makes use of his intellectual powers, that can transcend the limits of matter and mold and space and time. In that sense, God is the future of sci-fi, as the soft center, under the technology, discovers that technology will never be advanced enough, if the person operating it, is not as advanced. In the end; as shown by the alpha and omega, technology will not be needed.
In the modern world, if you can buy an iPhone, just holding this in your hand and talking to a friend makes you "appear" advanced. It does not take effort, just money. You can still be emotionally infantile, but you will appear more than you are. It is similar to the art affect of the golden calf. Good art can induce emo†ions, therefore wearing technical art can cover you with a subjective induction for others, so you appear more than you are.
The example, set by God is less about the shallows of surface appearance that science can see. God is not surrounded by tech. His powers come from within him. This is a higher example, but is not as easy to exploit for profit. God sets an example, that cuts into bottom lines of superficial success. So he is always a target by those who would prefer dress for success, instead of develop the mental equivalent, and they can be successful even in sweat pants. God is still elevant since he depicts the inevitable end of the need for technology if inner growth can occur.
In the world of Atheists, the pseudo-gods of science fiction, often from advanced alien cultures, use technology to extend the potentials and abilities of otherwise spoiled and cruel children. Star Trek uses advanced tech to look fancy; teleport, but the characters are still limited by their human frailty.
The person under the technology, has not evolved as much as the technology. They may appears larger than life but this is more based on their higher level technical prosthesis and the prestige this offers them in the eyes of others.
The evil villains of sci-fi are often similar to Hitler; universal conquest at any cost, but with better tech. However, they have the same vanity leading to their own demise, when their tech is compromised. The impression I get is atheists are not told to learn and grow in wisdom, but simply buy better tech to create the illusion of having risen above; dress for success.
God, on the other hand, is shown as highly advanced from the inside out. He is never depicted with technical prosthesis. He does not need a special weapon. Although tech was often the case in obsolete Mythology; hammer of Thor. God of Hosts, makes use of his intellectual powers, that can transcend the limits of matter and mold and space and time. In that sense, God is the future of sci-fi, as the soft center, under the technology, discovers that technology will never be advanced enough, if the person operating it, is not as advanced. In the end; as shown by the alpha and omega, technology will not be needed.
In the modern world, if you can buy an iPhone, just holding this in your hand and talking to a friend makes you "appear" advanced. It does not take effort, just money. You can still be emotionally infantile, but you will appear more than you are. It is similar to the art affect of the golden calf. Good art can induce emo†ions, therefore wearing technical art can cover you with a subjective induction for others, so you appear more than you are.
The example, set by God is less about the shallows of surface appearance that science can see. God is not surrounded by tech. His powers come from within him. This is a higher example, but is not as easy to exploit for profit. God sets an example, that cuts into bottom lines of superficial success. So he is always a target by those who would prefer dress for success, instead of develop the mental equivalent, and they can be successful even in sweat pants. God is still elevant since he depicts the inevitable end of the need for technology if inner growth can occur.
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It is relevant to the topic of the thread the result of claiming to the be the ;real,' only, proven belief, not willing to consider one wrong, and the consequence today and in history of these beliefs especially Judaism, Christianity and Islm.
[
Yrs terer is a problem with this Belligerent meaningless incoherent response.
I never and I mean never stated I hate Islam nor any other religion in this thread nor at any time on this forum.
Belligerent sarcasm is not a coherent response.
The bottom line fact is by far most believers in Judaism Christianity and Islam will NOT consider the possibility that their beliefs are wrong, which is the foundation of the concept of the 'Independent search for truth.'
firedragon
Veteran Member
Your first response was that. So you should say this to yourself. And when people do Tu Quoques, you get it back.
So you have no clue about Islam.
And you just ignored the question because of it. I will cut and paste again. You can pretend its not there because that's all you can do. "you pretended to be a master in Islam and said that Islam does not have independent exploration or something like that. I asked you. What do you think Akal is in Islam. Since you know Islam so well enough to give Islamic Fatawas like that, why not answer such basic questions? If you dont know why not just say you dont know?"
firedragon
Veteran Member
Shunya. Tell me please. What does Bahaullah mean by Akram Rasool in the Al Kithab al Akdhas?
Odd irrelevant use of the concept of technology.
In the world of atheism and agnosticism THERE ARE NO GODS in science fiction. Actually by far most fans of science fiction are Christians, and by the way, there is grounds to believe that the beliefs of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are grounded in mythology as well as ancient scriptures without provenance
More to follow. . .
I have responded to your posts in reference tot the reality of Islam, and you have failed to respond in context of the thread.
I do not spoon feed ignorant. Please respond to the reality of how the beliefs of religions function in the real world, which is the problem of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and not the claims of ancient scripture without provenance.
firedragon
Veteran Member
the reality of Islam throughout history has been independent exploration. The problem is you are making facade claims about things you have no clue of. Learn about, Waajib al Wujood, Ijthihad, Akal wa Nakal, Munkidh minadhlal. Read up a bit.
Spoon feed yourself.
Read above. I have not quoted a single scripture. They are all "Independent Explorations". Read up a little at least.
He came right after John (a), he didn't come out of the blue. The nation he came to know already had scriptural knowledge and was founded by Moses (a) to follow other Prophets. Moses (a) is an initial point while Jesus (a) was not succeeded by a whole set of other Prophets.
But if you want to make him into this trinity thing for salvation, then he definitely is not like Moses (a) but a whole different paradigm.
Also, John (a) is addressed as if these are three different humans, are you this or that or that? Three different possibilities. John (a) claims Jesus (a) is the Messiah but not the other two.
Again Jews, Christians can also cite scripture and references. but none reflect the history nor reality of these religions and Islam where the belief meets the ground in the real world'
Your and their failure to respond is glaringly apparent.
firedragon
Veteran Member
You dont know anything about these religions. Thats why you are avoiding everything.
I said. the reality of Islam throughout history has been independent exploration. The problem is you are making facade claims about things you have no clue of. Learn about, Waajib al Wujood, Ijthihad, Akal wa Nakal, Munkidh minadhlal. Read up a bit.
They are all "Independent Explorations". Read up a little at least. So go and study a bit about that.
I asked you another question about your own faith. What does Bahaullah mean by Akram Rasool? You dont know that do you? Simple, most basic in your own scripture. If you dont know your own faith, how in the world are you going to do fatawas about Islam which you have never known whatsoever?
Tell me. Why is the Qayoom al asma's balagha all over the place? Why are the arabic tonal sounds missing but he claims it is similar to the Quran and it meets the Quranic challenge to show that he special? These are your own scripture.
Please give some insights.
You dont know anything about these religions. Thats why you are avoiding everything.
I said. the reality of Islam throughout history has been independent exploration. The problem is you are making facade claims about things you have no clue of. Learn about, Waajib al Wujood, Ijthihad, Akal wa Nakal, Munkidh minadhlal. Read up a bit.
They are all "Independent Explorations". Read up a little at least. So go and study a bit about that.
I asked you another question about your own faith. What does Bahaullah mean by Akram Rasool? You dont know that do you? Simple, most basic in your own scripture. If you dont know your own faith, how in the world are you going to do fatawas about Islam which you have never known whatsoever?
Tell me. Why is the Qayoom al asma's balagha all over the place? Why are the arabic tonal sounds missing but he claims it is similar to the Quran and it meets the Quranic challenge to show that he special? These are your own scripture.
Please give some insights.
Now response to the substance of my posts.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Dont you even know much about your own theology? This is seriously strange.
But okay. I can see you cant answer a single question.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Now I understand what you mean by 'end point'. I would call this the fulfilment of the law, which is something only a sinless man can achieve.
To my understanding, Jesus has fulfilled the prophecies of the 'Suffering Servant' and, as such, is recognisable as the Messiah of the Jews. I don't believe that the prophet of Deuteronomy is anyone other than the Messiah, for the Messiah brings to fulfilment all prophecy and ritual found in the law.
There are, of course, prophecies relating to the 'second coming' that have yet to be fulfilled.
The point that needs to be emphasised as regarding the 'end point' of Jesus is that his fulfilment of the law is on-going and everlasting. In other words, his rule, and kingdom, cannot be superseded by another.
If Muhammad is the 'Comforter' of scripture, then he must also be a servant of Christ because Jesus said, 'l will send him to you' [John 16:7]. One might also ask, Did Muhammad testify of Jesus Christ? [John 15:26]
Jacob Samuelson
Active Member
No. Should I? You are using scriptures that directly discredit certain man made Christian philosophies. I am certain based on your verbiage that you are not a Latterday Saint, however I was impressed that you utilized scriptures to suggest as the LDS do that the faithful our inheritors of the Kingdom of Heaven. That Faith without works is dead. That prayer and the Holy Ghost are very important to get to know God. These have consistently rejected by mainstream Christians because of our declaration that Joseph Smith is a Prophet and that through the power of God was able to dictate new scripture.
Do you see heresy in what your suggesting? Cause if I use those scriptures to support my beliefs, I would be classified as a heretic.
I do not spoon feed the functionally illiterate that cannot do their own homework, and not the issue of the thread.
The subject of yhe thread is the exclusive claims of how 'real',' knowledge og God,' and claims of turth and proof religions claim in comparison with other religions who make exclusive claims.
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firedragon
Veteran Member
Did you just speak to yourself?
Can you tell me since you are motivated or told by your faith to do independent study and exploration, what are the signs of Ijaaz in the Qayyuum al Asma because that's the claim?
Did you explore independently? I mean that was your claim Bahai's do, and no one else does, so you should know this very well "because that's the claim". Did you ever independently explore this?
What are the signs of Ijaaz in the Qayyum al asma as the Bab claimed?
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
I owe you an apology. I misread your comments.
It's interesting to hear what you have to say, because I know very little about the LDS beliefs regarding Joseph Smith. My immediate reaction, however, is one of wariness, based on my belief that the holy scriptures are quite adequate in leading a person to salvation in Christ!