Those crazy, lovable brothers are once again showing what a class act they are. Not all that important in the grand scheme of things, but just kind of revealing.
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Koch Brothers Show Real Class
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Jeremy Mason
Well-Known Member
Yep, sound right "politically speaking". LOL! Koch should be a misspelling, but, the conservatives are eating it up. Another spoon for the right.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
It's to be expected with that lot. I bet you they have they're apologetic supporters regardless how tasteless it is to use that photo. It's a losing argument considering Colorado built their own healthcare exchange and expanded Medicaid.
Another evil Koch brother is pushing his evil agenda.
First they support gay marriage.
Now this.....
http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-frustrated-koch-brother-decides-its-time-to-spout-off-1445903458
First they support gay marriage.
Now this.....
http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-frustrated-koch-brother-decides-its-time-to-spout-off-1445903458
What fresh evils await !?
dust1n
Zindīq
"So while David Koch hypocritically complains about “crony capitalism,” here are five ways his company, Koch Industries, is benefiting from policies it has specifically campaigned, donated, and lobbied for:
1. Billions of dollars in oil subsidies: In his op-ed, Koch acknowledges government support of renewable energy, but he doesn’t point out the billions of dollars in tax breaks the oil industry receives every year. Koch Industries reaps billions in these century-old tax breaks, and spends millions lobbying specifically to ensure they stay in place. Koch is guilty of what he writes in his op-ed: “Far too many businesses have been all too eager to lobby for maintaining and increasing subsidies and mandates paid by taxpayers and consumers.”
2. Koch Industries has had at least $85 million in federal government contracts:Lee Fang reported that the Bush administration awarded the corporation expensive contracts, after Koch Industry contributions to Bush’s campaign. Many come from the Department of Defense, but they also include an exclusive contract to supply the nation’s Strategic Petroleum Reserve and prior access to Iraqi crude oil.
3. They’ve asked for bailouts: A Koch refinery located in Alaska, Flint Hills Refinery, repeatedly asked former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin for a bailout. Sen. Lisa Murkowski also asked for reduced royalties on the company’s behalf, arguing it plays a “vital” part in the economy.
4. After launching a campaign on behalf of the Keystone XL pipeline, they stand to benefit from taxpayer subsidies: Price of Oil calculates that refineries for the Keystone XL pipeline would receive over $1 billion in tax breaks for tar sands equipment. The Kochs have avoided talking about on how this would benefit the company. But InsideClimate News recently reported that a Koch subsidiary told regulators it has “direct and substantial interest” in the pipeline. Through its political contributions to Canadian lawmakers, the corporation help itself maintain a stakeCanada’s tar sands.
5. Koch Industries contributes millions of dollars to advance anti-environment legislation, and has been accused of outright bribery: Koch argues that the point of business is to “act lawfully and with integrity.” However, Grist points out a telling anecdote that undermines Koch’s point: Koch Industries was accused of bribing French government officials to win contracts. The Seattle Times reported that a Koch ethics manager highlighted bribes and activities that were “violations of criminal law” in France; however, the whistleblower was fired soon after she alerted executives to the issue.
Koch Industries has spent nearly $13.6 million on lobbying since 2011 — almost all of which hasgone to Republicans. The Koch brothers have personally pledged $60 million to defeat President Obama, according to the Huffington Post. In the U.S., Koch Industries’ biggest political recipients in Congress advance anti-environment and anti-climate legislation, giving Koch Industries the freedom to emit 300 million tons of carbon annually."
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/09/10/819541/charles-koch-wsj/
Free markets.
1. Billions of dollars in oil subsidies: In his op-ed, Koch acknowledges government support of renewable energy, but he doesn’t point out the billions of dollars in tax breaks the oil industry receives every year. Koch Industries reaps billions in these century-old tax breaks, and spends millions lobbying specifically to ensure they stay in place. Koch is guilty of what he writes in his op-ed: “Far too many businesses have been all too eager to lobby for maintaining and increasing subsidies and mandates paid by taxpayers and consumers.”
2. Koch Industries has had at least $85 million in federal government contracts:Lee Fang reported that the Bush administration awarded the corporation expensive contracts, after Koch Industry contributions to Bush’s campaign. Many come from the Department of Defense, but they also include an exclusive contract to supply the nation’s Strategic Petroleum Reserve and prior access to Iraqi crude oil.
3. They’ve asked for bailouts: A Koch refinery located in Alaska, Flint Hills Refinery, repeatedly asked former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin for a bailout. Sen. Lisa Murkowski also asked for reduced royalties on the company’s behalf, arguing it plays a “vital” part in the economy.
4. After launching a campaign on behalf of the Keystone XL pipeline, they stand to benefit from taxpayer subsidies: Price of Oil calculates that refineries for the Keystone XL pipeline would receive over $1 billion in tax breaks for tar sands equipment. The Kochs have avoided talking about on how this would benefit the company. But InsideClimate News recently reported that a Koch subsidiary told regulators it has “direct and substantial interest” in the pipeline. Through its political contributions to Canadian lawmakers, the corporation help itself maintain a stakeCanada’s tar sands.
5. Koch Industries contributes millions of dollars to advance anti-environment legislation, and has been accused of outright bribery: Koch argues that the point of business is to “act lawfully and with integrity.” However, Grist points out a telling anecdote that undermines Koch’s point: Koch Industries was accused of bribing French government officials to win contracts. The Seattle Times reported that a Koch ethics manager highlighted bribes and activities that were “violations of criminal law” in France; however, the whistleblower was fired soon after she alerted executives to the issue.
Koch Industries has spent nearly $13.6 million on lobbying since 2011 — almost all of which hasgone to Republicans. The Koch brothers have personally pledged $60 million to defeat President Obama, according to the Huffington Post. In the U.S., Koch Industries’ biggest political recipients in Congress advance anti-environment and anti-climate legislation, giving Koch Industries the freedom to emit 300 million tons of carbon annually."
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/09/10/819541/charles-koch-wsj/
Free markets.
Actually, it might be the epitome of altruism to lobby for the repeal of that which benefits oneself personally.
Contrast that with typical pols (both Dem & Pub) who guide the system towards such corruption.
dust1n
Zindīq
Yeah...
Personally, I've voted to change the rules of the game (ie, coping with government) I play such that I'd lose some advantages.
This is good.
dust1n
Zindīq
Certainly supporting some aim that would help oneself and others is a good thing. Supporting some aim which has no intentions helping others or will likely hurt others more than it would help anything is quite a stretch from "altruism."
This boils down to your having different values.
But if they advocate for an agenda which would eliminate some benefit they
currently get, & if one considers this agenda good, then it's "altruism" at its finest.
dust1n
Zindīq
That's a little clearer. Of course, it seems strange to advocate for an agenda based on fighting crony capitalism to limit oneself to do, say, having undue influence in environmental legislation. One could just limit their undue influence in environmental legislation...
6. The Koch Brothers father made his fortune from building Oil Refineries and training enginners in Stalin's Five Year Plan.
This was when their dad had got out of college in the middle of the Great Depression and was highly lucrative. he reacted against the Soviets when many of the engineers, themselves committed communists, were purged in the 30's but continued to do businness with the USSR until 1956. He was a founding member of the John Birch Society in 1958. So an intresting personal history to say the least.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_C._Koch
http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-kochstalin-connection-where-their-wealth-started/
http://www.alternet.org/story/146504/the_roots_of_stalin_in_the_tea_party_movement
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
Would it be altruistic for a vampire to call for vampires to not kill people anymore, while they feast on innocent victims, or are they still just monsters?
Vampires need human blood to survive, but businesses don't need gov subsidy.
So the analogy doesn't work well.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
These vampires don't, they're just blood snobs. They could drink synthetic or animal blood, but they prefer human blood. So are they altruistic for calling for a ban of drinking human blood even while they themselves unnecessarily drink it, or are they still just monsters?
You have some weird vampires there.
Anyway, if they drink human blood while lobbying to end the practice, that would be rather altruistic.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
I stole the concept from Daybreakers. They developed synthetic blood because they realized farming humans was unsustainable but still planned to farm humans, just because.
I disagree, if anything, knowing something is wrong and still doing it seems worse. At best they're hypocrites, at worst they're just robber barons. Altruistic is the last word I would use to describe them.
It would be more wronger for them to not lobby for a ban on killing humans for their blood.
But the worst vampires would be those in politics who maintain the system of bleed'n humans......vampires like Hillary & Obama.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
By not lobbying they could at least claim ignorance or ambivalence or something, but knowing it's wrong and still taking it is just greed for the sake of greed.
Here's another analogy I just thought of. It's like if someone was drowning and they're up there throwing buckets of water on them, and they say, "This is kind of messed up, we should stop", but then they just keep going with the buckets and you're like, "those are some good guys right there, by telling people they should stop, they're helping that drowning man they're dumping water on." They're not altruistic, they're just being dicks.
Careful, this is approaching the red herring fallacy.