Koran contradiction?

[Waymarker]

Do these two Koran verses seem to contradict each other?
The first says there's no distinction between any of the prophets, but the second says there are different 'ranks' of prophets.
(I've underlined the relevant bits)

[2.136] "We believe in Allah and in that which had been revealed to us, and in that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and in that which was given to Musa[Moses] and Isa[Jesus], and in that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make anydistinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit"

[2.253] "We have made some of these apostles to excel the others, among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by many degrees of rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa[Jesus] son of Marium[Mary], and strengthened him with the holy spirit.."

 

[angellous_evangellous]

It seems to me that there is no distinction in the designation of "prophet" and the importance of each individual prophet.

A good example is the US Marines. There is no distinction between Marines on many levels - each Marine is always a Marine, and they have their unifying designation of "Marine," but there are many ranks and honors...

 

[Fatihah]

Do these two Koran verses seem to contradict each other?
The first says there's no distinction between any of the prophets, but the second says there are different 'ranks' of prophets.
(I've underlined the relevant bits)

[2.136] "We believe in Allah and in that which had been revealed to us, and in that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and in that which was given to Musa[Moses] and Isa[Jesus], and in that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make anydistinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit"

[2.253] "We have made some of these apostles to excel the others, among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by many degrees of rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa[Jesus] son of Marium[Mary], and strengthened him with the holy spirit.."

Response: They do not contridict at all. In the verse right before ch2:136 we read "And they say, 'Be ye Jews or Christians, then you will be fightly guided' Say 'Nay, but (follow ye) the religion of Abraham who was ever inclined (to) Allah; he was not those who associate gods".

So the distinction we are told not to make is the distinction of what religion the prophets held. They were neither followers of judaism or christianity but were ever inclined to one religion which is islam and we should make no distinction about it.

 

[eugenius]

Response: They do not contridict at all. In the verse right before ch2:136 we read "And they say, 'Be ye Jews or Christians, then you will be fightly guided' Say 'Nay, but (follow ye) the religion of Abraham who was ever inclined (to) Allah; he was not those who associate gods".

So the distinction we are told not to make is the distinction of what religion the prophets held. They were neither followers of judaism or christianity but were ever inclined to one religion which is islam and we should make no distinction about it.

why did all these different religions crop up around the same time period and how can they all be correct when they contradict each other so greatly? Why is the Quran correct and not the Bible?

 

[Waymarker]

Christianity says "Jesus is the Son of God".
Islam says "No he's not"
Hmm quite a difference..

 

[Sahar]

Hello and welcome to the forum!!

"We make no distinction between any of them" means we don't accept some and deny some but we believe in all the prophets and we believe they were sent with the same message, the message of monotheism. This meaning is very clear in the verse.
So, there is not any contradiction.

 

[YmirGF]

Christianity says "Jesus is the Son of God".
Islam says "No he's not"
Hmm quite a difference..

Precisely. That is how Muhammad can usurp Jesus because Muhammad outranks Jesus. Jesus is just a prophet of god, whereas Muhammad is the Final Prophet or the Seal of Prophets. When Jesus returns he will call mankind to Islam. It's really quite the pipe dream.

 

[Waymarker]

..Jesus is just a prophet of god, whereas Muhammad is the Final Prophet or the Seal of Prophets..

Prove it..

 

[YmirGF]

Prove it..

LOL. Um... I am just explaining the Islamic position here. I would not dream of attempting to prove it, as of course, it cannot be proven. What I described was pretty well how virtually all Muslims look at the situation. Perhaps you should start a new thread in the Islam Dir and wait for the responses to pile up. Better yet, read up on Jesus in Islam.

I didn't invent this drivel, but it is a fairly good bet that Muhammed did as it certainly suited his purposes. Click the pretty link and try not to choke. Jesus in Islam.

 

[.lava]

Jesus is just a prophet of god, whereas Muhammad is the Final Prophet or the Seal of Prophets.

there've been maybe hundreds of Prophets but only five of them are known as Major ones. Jesus (PBUH) is of them. and no, no any Prophet and no any messenger of God is just an ordinary man. there is only one source which is Allah and each Prophet was the proxy of the very same source therefor we accept them all and every single thing any Prophet say is considered as word of God. one word of God is not less or more valuable then another word of God.

yes Mohammad (PBUH) is the last prophet. that means no more Sharia book therefor Qur'an's original text is protected by God and people would never be able to change it till the end of time.

.

 

[Fatihah]

why did all these different religions crop up around the same time period and how can they all be correct when they contradict each other so greatly? Why is the Quran correct and not the Bible?

Response: What religions are you speaking of? As for why the qur'an is correct and not the bible, well the bible has many contridictions while the qur'an has none. Allah (God) is all knowing so he can not contridict himself.

 

[.lava]

Response: What religions are you speaking of? As for why the qur'an is correct and not the bible, well the bible has many contridictions while the qur'an has none. Allah (God) is all knowing so he can not contridict himself.

hi Fatihah, eugenius is banned from forum, he might not respond to you. i am sorry.

.

 

[AbuKhalid]

there've been maybe hundreds of Prophets but only five of them are known as Major ones.

There have actually been at least 124,000 Prophets and 313 Messengers.

 

[Fatihah]

hi Fatihah, eugenius is banned from forum, he might not respond to you. i am sorry.

.

Response: As salaamu alaikum lava. I had no idea. Thanks.

 

[Snowber]

I do not see any contradiction here, looks look again:

No Distinction Among God's Messengers

[2:136] Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

Human beings are not allowed to make distinction among GOD's messengers/prophets. In fact this nullifies the traditional thought that the prophet Muhammad is superior to other prophets. As humans we cannot make this assumption. Only GOD knows.

Many Messengers / One Message

[2:253] These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.

On the other hand, GOD can very well make a distinction among messengers. No where in the Quran do we see that we should regard one prophet more than other.

Other verses on not making distinction among GOD's messenger:

You Shall Not Make Any Distinction
Among God's Messengers

[2:285] The messenger has believed in what was sent down to him from his Lord, and so did the believers. They believe in GOD, His angels, His scripture, and His messengers: "We make no distinction among any of His messengers." They say, "We hear, and we obey.* Forgive us, our Lord. To You is the ultimate destiny."

Make No Distinction Among God's Messengers

[3:84] Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

You Shall Not Make Any Distinction
Among God's Messengers

[4:150] Those who disbelieve in GOD and His messengers, and seek to make distinction among GOD and His messengers, and say, "We believe in some and reject some," and wish to follow a path in between;

[4:152] As for those who believe in GOD and His messengers, and make no distinction among them, He will grant them their recompense. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

 

[gnostic]

there've been maybe hundreds of Prophets but only five of them are known as Major ones.

How did you come up with the number 5? And who are these 5 majors?

And to AbuKhalid, Not4Me, and others:

And calling someone "THE LAST PROPHET" or "THE LAST MESSENGER", like a motto, is making a distinction between Muhammad and all other prophets, regardless what you say.

If it didn't, then Muslims wouldn't be saying that the bible is corrupted, and should follow the Jewish-Christian prophets' words as much as Muhammad, but the Muslims don't follow every single prophet.

 

[Snowber]

How did you come up with the number 5? And who are these 5 majors?

And to AbuKhalid, Not4Me, and others:

And calling someone "THE LAST PROPHET" or "THE LAST MESSENGER", like a motto, is making a distinction between Muhammad and all other prophets, regardless what you say.

If it didn't, then Muslims wouldn't be saying that the bible is corrupted, and should follow the Jewish-Christian prophets' words as much as Muhammad, but the Muslims don't follow every single prophet.

gnostic,

As for calling someone the last prophet, it is not necessarily a way of honoring that prophet. If GOD wants to send Moses,Jesus, then Muhammad last it does not mean that any one of them is considered better than the other. It simply says it is the last prophet (note that in the Koran a prophet is not the same as a messenger, a prophet can be a messenger as well but a messenger cannot be a prophet, a prophet brings a scripture, a messenger confirms it). According to the Koran a messenger is told to confirm the Koran afterwards.

Someone who considers themself Muslim may be weary of following other scriptures simply because GOD mentions in the Koran that one of the big reasons for delivering the Koran was to clear up corruption of the previous scriptures. We can still believe that the original Bible (Including Torah) were/is correct but we are not necessarily able to distinguish what is truth from what is human made.

Hope that helps.

 

[.lava]

How did you come up with the number 5? And who are these 5 majors?

And to AbuKhalid, Not4Me, and others:

And calling someone "THE LAST PROPHET" or "THE LAST MESSENGER", like a motto, is making a distinction between Muhammad and all other prophets, regardless what you say.

If it didn't, then Muslims wouldn't be saying that the bible is corrupted, and should follow the Jewish-Christian prophets' words as much as Muhammad, but the Muslims don't follow every single prophet.

five Prophets are the ones called Ul'ul Azim Prophets which means "owner of Azim". Azim is one of the names of God. i don't know if i could explain it but i'll try. for example, you, as a person can be patient. in certain situations, you put effort to be patient. when you become owner of patience, then you would not need to put effort or to try to be patient. you just be it without effort. that would be the highest level for one. those Prophets are owners of virtues. they are also the ones who made a promise to God to help Mehdi SAW when he comes to Earth;

33:7 And when We exacted a covenant from the prophets, and from thee (O Muhammad) and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus son of Mary. We took from them a solemn covenant;

Mohammad SAW is the last Prophet of God but messengers would keep coming till the end of time. Most Muslims would disagree with this but Qur'an is clear on the issue. inbetween two Prophets there is long time, like hundreds of years. but messengers come one after other which means when a messenger dies, another one takes his place without any break. so to speak, Prophets are messengers but not all messengers are Prophets. because Prophets are messengers who's given book (or at least one page). each of them is given laws that's written. but messengers do not have holy books

23:44 Then sent We our messengers in succession: every time there came to a people their messenger, they accused him of falsehood: so We made them follow each other (in punishment): We made them as a tale (that is told): So away with a people that will not believe!

Prophets come for all man-kind. but messengers come for their own people. they speak the same language with their people and they explain religion of God. therefor there are messengers in every nation all the time. one more difference between messenger and Prophet is, Prophets are always human. but there are messengers among Jinns as well;

6:130 O assembly of jinn and men! did there not come to you messengers from among you, relating to you My communications and warning you of the meeting of this day of yours? They shall say: We bear witness against ourselves; and this world's life deceived them, and they shall bear witness against their own souls that they were unbelievers.

Bible and Tavrat both were changed by men. but original texts may come out someday. book of Abraham and Noah is nowhere to be found. Qur'an is under protection so no power on Earth could change its original text and it is really the same. but corruption is unavoidable. text remains the same but practice is corrupted. today most of Muslims believe Mohammad SAW is the last of messenger though he is not. Muslims would call messengers 'liar' today because of this false belief. because -not the original text has changed- but concepts are twisted by negative sources. only if they serch, read and think over verses of Qur'an, they could see messengers come one after another. there is never hundreds of years between. but yes, He is the last of Prophets which means there would not be another holy book. there would be messengers till the end, men who explain verses and invite people to religion of God.


.

 

[A-ManESL]

five Prophets are the ones called Ul'ul Azim Prophets which means "owner of Azim". Azim is one of the names of God. i don't know if i could explain it but i'll try. for example, you, as a person can be patient. in certain situations, you put effort to be patient. when you become owner of patience, then you would not need to put effort or to try to be patient. you just be it without effort. that would be the highest level for one. those Prophets are owners of virtues. they are also the ones who made a promise to God to help Mehdi SAW when he comes to Earth;

33:7 And when We exacted a covenant from the prophets, and from thee (O Muhammad) and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus son of Mary. We took from them a solemn covenant;

Mohammad SAW is the last Prophet of God but messengers would keep coming till the end of time. Most Muslims would disagree with this but Qur'an is clear on the issue. inbetween two Prophets there is long time, like hundreds of years. but messengers come one after other which means when a messenger dies, another one takes his place without any break. so to speak, Prophets are messengers but not all messengers are Prophets. because Prophets are messengers who's given book (or at least one page). each of them is given laws that's written. but messengers do not have holy books

23:44 Then sent We our messengers in succession: every time there came to a people their messenger, they accused him of falsehood: so We made them follow each other (in punishment): We made them as a tale (that is told): So away with a people that will not believe!

Prophets come for all man-kind. but messengers come for their own people. they speak the same language with their people and they explain religion of God. therefor there are messengers in every nation all the time. one more difference between messenger and Prophet is, Prophets are always human. but there are messengers among Jinns as well;

6:130 O assembly of jinn and men! did there not come to you messengers from among you, relating to you My communications and warning you of the meeting of this day of yours? They shall say: We bear witness against ourselves; and this world's life deceived them, and they shall bear witness against their own souls that they were unbelievers.

Bible and Tavrat both were changed by men. but original texts may come out someday. book of Abraham and Noah is nowhere to be found. Qur'an is under protection so no power on Earth could change its original text and it is really the same. but corruption is unavoidable. text remains the same but practice is corrupted. today most of Muslims believe Mohammad SAW is the last of messenger though he is not. Muslims would call messengers 'liar' today because of this false belief. because -not the original text has changed- but concepts are twisted by negative sources. only if they serch, read and think over verses of Qur'an, they could see messengers come one after another. there is never hundreds of years between. but yes, He is the last of Prophets which means there would not be another holy book. there would be messengers till the end, men who explain verses and invite people to religion of God.
.

I admit that I didn't expect this. I have a few questions for you:

1. What is the verse in the Quran that states that in between two Prophets there is a long time.
2. What is the verse in the Quran that states that Messengers will keep coming till the end of time.
3. What is the verse in the Quran that states that Prophets come for the whole mankind.
4. What is the verse in the Quran that states that Prophets are always human.
5. In 33:7 the word nabi is used, you translate it as a Prophet, in 4:163 the word nabi is used, Hz Harun(pbuh) is a nabi according to 4:163, yet he was the brother of Hz Musa(pbuh). Now If between Prophets there is a long space interval, how do you justify both Hz Musa and Hz Harun being prophets. Similarly for the other blood relatives in 4:163.
6. You mentioned five Prophets by name, but Zabur was revealed to Hz Daud. Why didn't you mention him?

Thanks and regards.

 

[aymen amir]

Precisely. That is how Muhammad can usurp Jesus because Muhammad outranks Jesus. Jesus is just a prophet of god, whereas Muhammad is the Final Prophet or the Seal of Prophets. When Jesus returns he will call mankind to Islam. It's really quite the pipe dream.

:clap