lack of freewill

[The Sum of Awe]

I wanted to write something short that takes place in the future on earth, but freewill does not exist in that future. that is pretty much all the detail I have right now. It's probably not going to be a major part of the plot, but it just seemed like a fun little detail I could play around with while writing the story.

But I'm unsure where to go with this, mainly because I don't actually believe freewill exists, I personally see every event as a chain reaction.

So, if you believe freewill does exist, what do you envision the world might be like if it didn't exist? More specifically, if it stopped existing all of the sudden?

There is no right answer, I'm open to hearing all ideas.

 

[1137]

I'm confused... Why not just write it as if you were writing about everyday, deterministic life?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I would imagine there would be a dramatic decrease in both creativity and psychopathy, if one were to assume free will exists now. Free will introduces increased randomness into a system, so without it people would be much more common.

 

[Skwim]

I wanted to write something short that takes place in the future on earth, but freewill does not exist in that future. that is pretty much all the detail I have right now. It's probably not going to be a major part of the plot, but it just seemed like a fun little detail I could play around with while writing the story.

But I'm unsure where to go with this, mainly because I don't actually believe freewill exists, I personally see every event as a chain reaction.

So, if you believe freewill does exist, what do you envision the world might be like if it didn't exist? More specifically, if it stopped existing all of the sudden?

There is no right answer, I'm open to hearing all ideas.

When you say that freewill doesn't exist in the future I assume you're saying that no one, or very few, believe in it. If this is the case then I can see the social problem of what to do with those who, through no fault of their own, break the law or do despicable things. Would incarceration be only a teaching (warning) tool, with punishment (think of revenge) thrown out the window? Would praise and accolades be ridiculous reactions that lacked merit? For that matter, would merit itself be a worthless concept?

Might be interesting to see where these changes in thinking take your story.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I'm confused... Why not just write it as if you were writing about everyday, deterministic life?

Well, the original influence of this being the case, was a dream I had the other night where a character said "We lost our freewill years ago". But writing it as how it is is sort of dull, so I plan on using the common understanding of freewill according to believers in it.

I'm also rethinking about actually making freewill a human invention that ends up causing too much chaos and so it was banned and now people that are used to living with freewill (it lasted atleast two generations) are struggling to exist in their limits as they're simply not used to it. But they pretty much gotten used to it (to make the story itself actually speed up a little without the struggle of living determined consuming most of it), but there are a number of people that do still have freewill, or have illegally used past techniques to get freewill.

Beyond this, I'm not going to let this drive the plot. It's just going to be their environment, how their world is, but there will be an event based in the world with this features. It will effect plot a little, but not by much.

A few ideas that I had in mind were: People without freewill still had the (artificially created) gene of freewill that made them see through a freewill perspective while engulfed in determinism - so they are sort of claustrophobic with these limitations.

They will go about similarly as we do now, but their freewill-perspective will make them not have the illusion of freewill, they'll actually feel the determinism.

Humanity is much more safe because of its restrictions but freedom wasn't a feature.

Freewill people will have the struggle of having freewill in a deterministic universe. Not much of a struggle, in fact a benefit, they can practically change the determined course of the universe to a certain extent.

Freewill people try to live their lives normally and attempt to blend in, but it isn't easy.

The world with freewill was more free and unlimited. But safety wasn't a feature.

Freewill people basically seem like us, until you pay close attention you will notice some things that seem paradoxical or impossible.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

When you say that freewill doesn't exist in the future I assume you're saying that no one, or very few, believe in it. If this is the case then I can see the social problem of what to do with those who, through no fault of their own, break the law or do despicable things. Would incarceration be only a teaching (warning) tool, with punishment (think of revenge) thrown out the window? Would praise and accolades be ridiculous reactions that lacked merit? For that matter, would merit itself be a worthless concept?

Might be interesting to see where these changes in thinking take your story.

Interesting interpretation of that and good ideas.

 

[Willamena]

I wanted to write something short that takes place in the future on earth, but freewill does not exist in that future. that is pretty much all the detail I have right now. It's probably not going to be a major part of the plot, but it just seemed like a fun little detail I could play around with while writing the story.

But I'm unsure where to go with this, mainly because I don't actually believe freewill exists, I personally see every event as a chain reaction.

So, if you believe freewill does exist, what do you envision the world might be like if it didn't exist? More specifically, if it stopped existing all of the sudden?

There is no right answer, I'm open to hearing all ideas.

Free will goes hand in hand with consciousness, so if your characters do more than just lie there slumped over and quietly breathing, free will will be in your story whether you like it or not.

 

[Iti oj]

Free will goes hand in hand with consciousness, so if your characters do more than just lie there slumped over and quietly breathing, free will will be in your story whether you like it or not.

Only if you have a meaningless definition of the word.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

More thought on the details (some which I may not follow through with):

The period of time where freewill existed had to do with an artificial soul, something like an abstract organ which uploads the mind created by the brain, but because the mind is uploaded (and constantly adding new data) it is no longer limited to the brain and physical reality (to a limit).

It was removed because of the absurdity it caused on the universe, what are pretty much like glitches in reality that go unseen by the freewill-mind. Pretty much the interference of having an unlimited mind in a limited world made too many problems and they sought to retreat the world into a sort-of forced golden-age (hesiod's term)

People who were still alive (late 20's as youngest) that lived in the age of freewill notice their environment controlling them, and also can differentiate people who have souls (them, they still have souls but they only perceive through their soul, their will is limited to their brain) and people who don't (people born after the freewill era) but the people who don't have souls can't really notice any difference. People that currently have freewill (illegally) also notice the difference.

The plot MIGHT be about a criminal mastermind stalking the streets of Anance (the city the story takes place in) that has freewill (born with it in the era) and reached transcendence with it to where his soul still exists even though he is gone (it was only theoretically discussed, nobody believed transcendence was possible but it supposedly comes when someone completely devotes themselves to their soul to the point they literally are the soul and moved beyond the need for a physical body. otherwise, how it usually was, the soul died with the body). That transcendent criminal is also only believed to be there, but no evidence suggests that there is a criminal with transcendent powers other than people dying for no apparent reason.

Spoiler: ending idea

SPOILER: What's behind these deaths isn't actually a transcendent person, it's actually ripples of glitches that still remain from the time freewill did exist that created an interference between the afterlife and real life. Which also reveals that, everyone was wrong that the soul dies with the body, an afterlife came naturally with artificial souls)

well, there's probably another plot concept idea i have that i end up being too lazy to actually write lol

 

[idav]

There is an intersting movie I would like to see Divergent. Not sure how much it gets into freewill but somehow a fringe few seem different and the government isn't too fond of these few dangerous individuals. A dystopian movie plot.

 

[`mud]

Has anyone heard my bumper car story ?
~
So much for "free will".................
~
You haven't heard it ?
~
Driving a bumper car at the county fair, with a broken steering wheel, with no brakes, and a flat tire on one side, and a broken seat strap, .....
~
like I said.....so much for that...
~
Write the story......:cover:
~
'mud

 

[Banjankri]

What is "will"?
What is "free"?
What is "free will"?

 

[chinu]

I wanted to write something short that takes place in the future on earth, but freewill does not exist in that future. that is pretty much all the detail I have right now. It's probably not going to be a major part of the plot, but it just seemed like a fun little detail I could play around with while writing the story.

But I'm unsure where to go with this, mainly because I don't actually believe freewill exists, I personally see every event as a chain reaction.

So, if you believe freewill does exist, what do you envision the world might be like if it didn't exist? More specifically, if it stopped existing all of the sudden?

There is no right answer, I'm open to hearing all ideas.

If you have freewill to ask question about freewill, than why do you think you don't have freewill in other cases ?
What made you to ask this question ? What kind of chain reaction is this ? tell me..

 

[Dayman]

Sounds like the plot from "The Giver". I haven't read the book in a very long time so I forget the specifics of that. But in the recently released movie, every member of the population gets a daily dose of a drug that inhibits their emotions. Which could be done the same with free will I guess.

 

[Bobbyh]

I wanted to write something short that takes place in the future on earth, but freewill does not exist in that future. that is pretty much all the detail I have right now. It's probably not going to be a major part of the plot, but it just seemed like a fun little detail I could play around with while writing the story.

But I'm unsure where to go with this, mainly because I don't actually believe freewill exists, I personally see every event as a chain reaction.

So, if you believe freewill does exist, what do you envision the world might be like if it didn't exist? More specifically, if it stopped existing all of the sudden?

There is no right answer, I'm open to hearing all ideas.

I imagine a scenario where humanity experiences a global enlightening to the nature of reality. But no one cares because it doesn't affect their day to day life, but its facts are weaved into product advertising to be as positive as possible.

Or a darker view I could imagine the same thing everyone becomes aware of the lack of freewill by way of understanding everything has already having occurred and that they are just what they are within the entirety of one whole everything bound within nothing, so the enlightening is in a realization that describing freewill doesn't mean anything and is a linguistic fallacy as far as reality and nature are concerned.

 

[Johnlove]

I wanted to write something short that takes place in the future on earth, but freewill does not exist in that future. that is pretty much all the detail I have right now. It's probably not going to be a major part of the plot, but it just seemed like a fun little detail I could play around with while writing the story.

But I'm unsure where to go with this, mainly because I don't actually believe freewill exists, I personally see every event as a chain reaction.

So, if you believe freewill does exist, what do you envision the world might be like if it didn't exist? More specifically, if it stopped existing all of the sudden?

There is no right answer, I'm open to hearing all ideas.

Want to know about God? Then ask God? A Christian is given God’s Holy Spirit to tell him or her about God.

Accepting man’s answers about God is just believing in someone’s assumptions as to God.

(1 John 2: 27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you; the anointing he gave teaches you everything: you are anointed with truth, not with a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

So, if you believe freewill does exist, what do you envision the world might be like if it didn't exist? More specifically, if it stopped existing all of the sudden?

I imagine that we'd all stop being conscious and would be incapable of understanding concepts.

 

[MonkeyFire]

You have be hopelessly dead to lose your free will. Any thought or imagination is freedom. No dictator can take our faith and determination.

 

[Skwim]

You have be hopelessly dead to lose your free will.

But you never had any to lose in the first place.

Any thought or imagination is freedom.

Examples are not definitions, if that's what you're aiming for.

No dictator can take our faith and determination.

Sure they can. It's a well known fact that in prison camps determination can sometimes be easily broken. Same with faith. Faith has also been known to have been shattered in similar circumstances. All under the direction of dictators.

 

[Laika]

It might not be relevant to theology, but Marxism is violently opposed to free will as an illusion and is deterministic. Conventionally, "free will" is equated with Freedom- but not in Marxism and it's problematic as a result.

I don't believe in free will, but it's pretty tricky to square it because if you accept a linear or mechanical causality in which A -> B -> C etc, you still have to explain where 'A' came from. Marxists criticize this 'mechanical' causality because it leads to a religious belief in the 'prime mover'. It is characterized as mechanical, as it is assumed that the world is made of permanent parts, movement therefore comes from 'outside' and the cause is external to the object. So- "someone" has to put the machine in motion. (I think this comes from Newtonian mechanics, but I'm not 100% sure). Marxism has a way of getting round this, but I won't go into that as it's not relevant.

So in all probability- the society you're thinking of would probably be run like a 'machine', where everyone is tightly controlled to that they fit in as 'cogs' in the 'machine'. Free Will is suppressed. People are controlled by clocks and are under constant surveillance so that they are doing "what they're supposed to". The 'prime mover' that put this machine society in operation will almost certainly be the state- or else God embodied in the state. This State then has to suppress everyone's free will by constant supervision and surveillance.

Free Will is closely related with (conventional) definitions of 'Free thought'. If man is determined, so are his thoughts. His thoughts are not the individual product of his mind, but are determined by society. Therefore someone does not "own" or "control" their own thoughts, but their mind and all their thoughts are owned by society/the state. Such a society would have "mind control" as a result because the "prime mover/state" has to wind up everyone else, like mechanical toys. Indoctrination is universal whether it is at schools, on media like the television and culture is reduced to only those things which serve the "prime mover". You could throw in a computer-brain interface and have everyone reduced to unfeeling automatons/robots depending on how vindictive and absolute this society is.

I think in Zymatin's "We", the government was trying to create the 'perfect man' by enforcing a labotomy so they didn't have any emotions left and would therefore go along with the 'plan'. This ideas also came up in the film "Equilibrium" where after a devastating war, emotions are forcibly suppressed by drugs so that war becomes impossible.

The "big picture" of course changes, since if there is no free will, the very conception of society changes. If man is deterministic, "freedom" is not individual choice or autonomy but is the realization of the "divine plan". Freedom is only freedom to do what fulfills this "plan". Doing anything contrary to this is either illegal or immoral because it means contradicting the "plan" which is inevitable and therefore morally right. This could be deeply fatalistic and everyone is resigned to suffering what ever befalls them as part of this "plan". So imagine what happens if the plan is horrifying?

Totalitarianism is pretty much an attempt to suppress individual free will (assuming it exists). Totalitarian ideologies like Marxism and Nazism argue that history was determined and was therefore was scientifically predictable (in a way similar to religious ideas surrounding fate). In fictional settings- this is to the extent that human behavior is mathematically predictable and maybe run by computer. It doesn't matter what people felt or wanted- it was going to happen anyway. What was moral was anything that got them to that pre-determined destination; "the ends justifies the means". Any means- no matter how evil- is ethically justified as part of the fulfillment of the divine plan.

These are however, extremely crude characterizations which contain an element of truth. it's not the whole story, but they make great stuff for fiction and propaganda because they appeal to our very basic fears over loss of autonomy and individuality.