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Law or Grace; Can you have God's Grace without God's Law?

3rdAngel

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Hello all.

I thought this would be an interesting topic for discussion. How can you have God's grace if there is not law that gives us the knowledge of good and evil? If we do not know that we are all sinners how can we see our need of a Saviour?

According to God's word, ALL those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into the kingdom of heaven *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved it is the fruit of God's work in us as we believe and follow his word. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. If we do not know we are sick why would we seek a physician?

.............

Many people seem to be of the view that Grace is separate from obedience to God's Law (10 commandments). Is this true and how can you have Grace without law if the laws that we have broken lead to or demonstrate Gods' Grace?

Some questions for consideration...

Q1. What is grace for?
Q2. Can we have grace in the new covenant without God's law?
Q2. Can we have God's grace in the new covenant without God's Law?
Q3. What part does God's law have in grace?

..............

*Friendly discussion please; Please provided scirpture for your claims if you can.

God bless you all
 
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danieldemol

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
3rdAngel said:
Hello all.

I thought this would be an interesting topic for discussion. How can you have God's GRACE if there is not LAW that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL? If we do not KNOW that we are all sinners how can we see our need of a Saviour?

According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. If we do not know we are sick why would we seek a physician?

.............

Many people seem to be of the view that Grace is separate from obedience to God's Law (10 commandments). Is this true and how can you have Grace without law if the laws that we have broken lead to or demonstrate Gods' Grace?

Some questions for consideration...

Q1. WHAT IS GRACE FOR?
Q2. CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NEW COVENANT WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
Q2. CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NEW COVENANT WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
Q3. WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

(Scripture only please)

..............

*FRIENDLY DISCUSSION PLEASE; PLEASE PROVIDE SCRIPTURE FOR YOUR CLAIMS

God bless you all
Click to expand...
If you want scripture only you should ask the mods to move this thread to scriptural debates
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
3rdAngel said:
Hello all.

I thought this would be an interesting topic for discussion. How can you have God's GRACE if there is not LAW that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL? If we do not KNOW that we are all sinners how can we see our need of a Saviour?

According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. If we do not know we are sick why would we seek a physician?

.............

Many people seem to be of the view that Grace is separate from obedience to God's Law (10 commandments). Is this true and how can you have Grace without law if the laws that we have broken lead to or demonstrate Gods' Grace?

Some questions for consideration...

Q1. WHAT IS GRACE FOR?
Q2. CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NEW COVENANT WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
Q2. CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NEW COVENANT WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
Q3. WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

(Scripture only please)

..............

*FRIENDLY DISCUSSION PLEASE; PLEASE PROVIDE SCRIPTURE FOR YOUR CLAIMS

God bless you all
Click to expand...

The caps is throwing it off rather than emphasizing it. Can you lower the caps?
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
3rdAngel said:
Hello all.

I thought this would be an interesting topic for discussion. How can you have God's grace if there is not law that gives us the knowledge of good and evil? If we do not know that we are all sinners how can we see our need of a Saviour?

According to God's word, ALL those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into the kingdom of heaven *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved it is the fruit of God's work in us as we believe and follow his word. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. If we do not know we are sick why would we seek a physician?

.............

Many people seem to be of the view that Grace is separate from obedience to God's Law (10 commandments). Is this true and how can you have Grace without law if the laws that we have broken lead to or demonstrate Gods' Grace?

Some questions for consideration...

Q1. What is grace for?
Q2. Can we have grace in the new covenant without God's law?
Q2. Can we have God's grace in the new covenant without God's Law?
Q3. What part does God's law have in grace?

..............

*Friendly discussion please; Please provided scirpture for your claims if you can.

God bless you all
Click to expand...
The Mosaic Law points to how we should treat others (with love). Jesus said that the greatest two commandments are to love God and love neighbor, and that all the rest depend upon these two.

The Gentiles, not being Jewish, nor being required to become Jewish, were not required to follow the Mosaic Law.

Yet grace is extended to us.

Grace is love in action. Love is the key, which is why the first two commandments are paramount.

Since I don’t buy into the sola scriptura heresy, Im not furnishing bible texts. It’s not necessary.
 
3rdAngel

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
The Mosaic Law points to how we should treat others (with love). Jesus said that the greatest two commandments are to love God and love neighbor, and that all the rest depend upon these two.

The Gentiles, not being Jewish, nor being required to become Jewish, were not required to follow the Mosaic Law.

Yet grace is extended to us.

Grace is love in action. Love is the key, which is why the first two commandments are paramount.

Since I don’t buy into the sola scriptura heresy, Im not furnishing bible texts. It’s not necessary.
Click to expand...

Seems someone is mixing up the Mosaic book of the law *EXODUS 24:7 with God's 10 commandments *EXODUS 20:1-17. Do you know the difference? Did you want to have a go at answering the questions asked in the OP? How does law relate to Grace? The OP does not ask you if you believe in sola scriptura or not. :)
 
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sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
3rdAngel said:
Seems someone is getting mixing up the Mosaic book of the law *EXODUS 24:7 with God's 10 commandments *EXODUS 20:1-17. Do you know the difference? Did you want to have a go at answering the questions asked in the OP? How does law relate to Grace? The OP does not ask you if you believe in sola scriptura or not. :)
Click to expand...
Seems someone is acting a little faux superior, especially given that I do know what I’m talking about. Questions asked and answered above. No biblical reference is necessary.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
I believe there have been instances where people have been saved having no Biblical knowledge. That wasn't the case with me but I didn't know Paul's gospel. I was saved by reading John 3 and some general knowledge that didn't come directly from the Bible.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
3rdAngel said:
Arr thanks Daniel, although it is not really a scripture thread as such as there are many scriptures on the subject.
Click to expand...

I believe I had a Jewish person say he was not a stranger to grace. After all the people of Israel did not leave Egypt entirely on their own efforts and certainly not because they deserved God's help.
 
3rdAngel

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
Seems someone is acting a little faux superior, especially given that I do know what I’m talking about. Questions asked and answered above. No biblical reference is necessary.
Click to expand...

Not really, only asking some questions to help the conversation. You do not have to answer them if you do not wish to it is up to you
 
3rdAngel

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
Let’s not have a Sunday school lesson from one who does not know grace from a hole in the ground. You see my answer above.
Click to expand...

Sorry I do not go to church on Sunday. If you wish to prove your claims prove them if you cannot why make up things that are not true? Let me know when you wish to discuss the OP :)
 
3rdAngel

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Muffled said:
I believe there have been instances where people have been saved having no Biblical knowledge. That wasn't the case with me but I didn't know Paul's gospel. I was saved by reading John 3 and some general knowledge that didn't come directly from the Bible.
Click to expand...

Hi Muffled nice to see you. I believe that salvation only comes through a knowledge of God's Word but in times of ignorance God winks at when we do not have a knowledge of the truth *ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17. I believe it is God's Spirit through the Word that fives us a knowledge of what God's truth is. How do you think Law relates to Grace?
 
3rdAngel

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Muffled said:
I believe I had a Jewish person say he was not a stranger to grace. After all the people of Israel did not leave Egypt entirely on their own efforts and certainly not because they deserved God's help.
Click to expand...
Thats actually a good example of God's grace from the old testament. One I had not really considered. Thanks for sharing this.
 
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