LBM and Setian Arete

[Sireal]

One of the main reasons I affiliated with the Temple of Set was the precept that I could learn and grow in an environment where I would not have to deal with wanna-be Black Magicians always plying their trade by using LBM on me. I have a great nose for that kind of thing and spent years thinking it was fun, and lost many opportunities for growth because of that. It is a Tool for getting stuff done in the world of horrors. When I saw that this school had a protocol that no Setian uses LBM on another and doing so is cause for immediate expulsion I was very pleased. Needless to say I cut my ties to most of these on line lists as it was one ****** after another doing just that-who needs it!? I also learned how much I actually did use LBM mostly unconsciously with Everyone. Not wanting to inadvertently derail my Initiation because I was unaware of what I was doing I began to peel back the layers of my use of LBM.

What this did for me was to reveal my Self with out the armoring that most have to deal with on a daily basis to cover their ***** from yesterdays lies. I felt like s**t for some time but ate it and got on with what was real. When I found this forum I thought ok why not, I know enough to keep things real-thats where the name originates and I will do my best to bring Setian Arete to this little microcosm.


The secrets of Black Magic keep themselves, you can read all the Setian books you want, pretend to be anything you desire but at the end of the day you are still the one staring back at yourself in the mirror. And, of what benefit is knowledge when it brings no wisdom to the wise?

Setian Black Magic is Not about titles-it is about knowing your True Self, and this becomes exceedingly difficult when a magician begins to believe their own b**lsh*t.

The Word-Xeper- To Come into Being- has built in safe guards, one may come into being but it will be the most powerful constructs the magician creates that do so.
When individuals spend their time avoiding the real Work of BM, they are, knowingly or not, cutting their own throat and will Xeper into an unsightly mess or at the very least spend much of their Time doing damage control.

Setian Arete is an excellence that the Temple prides itself on and rightly so. We are a community of highly skilled BM's and Know exactly how Black Magic is dangerous and why it is so. This is not knowledge you will find in many places and it cannot be conveyed by books, email or what have you, it must be Experienced. I sense this quality in some of the folks here, maybe not to the degree that I am used to in the Temple but it does exist and I am glad to have found it.

Many of you folks have grown and learned in a culture that has bombarded you with visual, tactile and imaginary constructs your entire life and are very adept at navigating the realm illusory life, this is LBM at its best and it has its place, this forum is not that place. This is a kind of Oasis where you will be treated with respect as you deserve it and disdain if you choose to treat others as though they are stupid.

BM is a way of Life for me, the Temple is my religion and I am dead serious about seeing this Life through the eyes of an awakened Being motivated towards Self Deification without getting caught up in more exotic forms of Sleep- substance abuse, mystic ritual bs, drama mongers and the like, bt-dt.

Most are here to learn and question the Setian path, I am here to assist in that process and provide honest feedback to legitimate queries as are the other Setians here, not to appeal to your sensitivities, manipulate your weaknesses or any other stasis creating desires that are the realm of initiatory death and the dissolution of the black magician among other BM's.

XEPER!

 

[ViaSinistra]

Very Interesting, glad you're aboard. In my experience with LBM, it can become almost seductive. But not unlike volitile chemicals it can also be unstable if we are not proficient in it's many schools of use.

I also found if used too much, it started to make me lazy...i started to rely on it more and more, but this often compounded bad situations. This is when i found it seductive, i began to count on it for easy situations...situations that could easily be controled by a little "Willed" effort on my part, but instead i began to perform Workings to redeem prior Workings... as you can imagine, it didn't turn out very well...fixing it till it's broken.

I then put it aside to, as you said, start "damage control" and begin the work necessary to fix the mess. This was during my immature stages of Initiation roughly about 11 years ago...I then had to learn how to unlearn what i thought was effective, and start the task of learning how to learn begining with finding the Self.

 

[Eric Cow]

Dear Sireal,

Let me commend you on the candor of your post and its heart felt communication to those reviewing the Setian experience. Certainly you bring up good points regarding virtue, goodness, and things similarly related. We can see how you've benefited from the training you've received from the Temple of Set. Without being opposed or defiant to your post I remain neutral regarding some points you've raised in relation to the Setian experience, especially from the perspective of the Priesthood. And again I mean you no malice.

I quote: “When I saw that this school had a protocol that no Setian uses LBM on another and doing so is cause for immediate expulsion...” what is not mentioned is that no such standard or expectation is present outside the confines of the Temple of Set. What I am saying is that a member of the Temple of Set is free to utilize the LBM training (Lesser Black Magic) in the “ world of horrors” which in plain speak means the world outside the Temple of Set. And, this forum is outside the Temple of Set. Are you able to quote the above citation from Temple of Set documents or are we just expected to accept your statement?

In your defense you are certainly able to extend your religious ethics to this forum but you are not required to do so by the Temple of Set. Perhaps the Greek Arete, of which you refer, [and is not an Egyptian concept, like Set] is a matter of personal commitment. This level of personal commitment is most honorable and I hope to further see you adhere to it. It, Arete that is, could be a development of your commitment of the Noble principles of the Setian religion but similar levels of commitment are demonstrated around the world by various individuals also seeking to develop their personal Divinity regardless of their religious choice.

Regarding the “secrets of Black Magic” I'm left with the impression that the suggestion is that it is not likely that one could develop this themselves apart from the training offered by the Temple of Set. Perhaps that is a culpable conclusion. Within the exclusive confines of the Temple of Set it is certainly plausible that this argument is valid. Nevertheless being able to produce similar results outside this environment is an unexplored opportunity by some; not willing to pay the financial dues, and submit to the Temple of Set closed door scrutiny.

Although I respect your decision to bleep certain syllables [****] in your text the decision to not use more suitable terminology questions the capability to command the look of respect and nobility that classic Arete demonstrates and calls into account your readiness for the IV° and raises concerns as to if this sort of half-step above the gutter is typical of the III° Priesthood. Honestly Sireal, you are better than this. And before everyone starts throwing stones at me I'd like to say how I admire the courage of Sireal to take a chance in such a public forum as this as you know every high-level member of the Temple of Set is watching him. As are some newbies.

Quote: “Most are here to learn and question the Setian path, I am here to assist in that process and provide honest feedback to legitimate queries as are the other Setians here, not to appeal to your sensitivities, manipulate your weaknesses or any other stasis creating desires that are the realm of initiatory death and the dissolution of the black magician among other BM's.”

Based upon close examination I have to disagree regarding “most here”. By observation I notice “most here” [in the Setian forum] are members of the Temple of Set or Setian sympathizers (past or present). That's OK as long as those with Setian views, that differ from the TS, are also permitted a voice else it's just a front for the Temple of Set and that diminishes its “real” public value. IMO.

Keep up the good work Sireal, we're all watching!

 

[ViaSinistra]

not to appeal to your sensitivities, manipulate your weaknesses or any other stasis creating desires that are the realm of initiatory death and the dissolution of the black magician among other BM's.
XEPER!

I'm sorry, but can you elaborate please, firstly concerning " Manipulate your weaknesses"? I'm rather puzzled on this paragraph...i don't want to take it wrong, but rather ask instead...Thank you.

Great is the Might of Set..Greater still he is through us! :yoda:

 

[blackout]

While this sub-forum on RF is not the ToS,
it is a sort of "sub-Sanctuary"
in which Setians, both Temple and NonTemple,
and also Setian "sympathizers"
hopefully meet to help one another Xeper.
(otherwise, what is the point?)

Who does it benefit
that any Setian in this little RF Sanctuary
employ LBM on another?

I prefer to see this as a little Sanctuary
Set apart from the larger world of Horrors,
more than the actual world of horrors itself.

Why? Because we are all of basic Setian mindSet.

The world of horrors ASKS for LBM.
Setian "companions" HOPEFULLY do not.

 

[Sireal]

Dear Sireal,
I quote: “When I saw that this school had a protocol that no Setian uses LBM on another and doing so is cause for immediate expulsion...” what is not mentioned is that no such standard or expectation is present outside the confines of the Temple of Set. What I am saying is that a member of the Temple of Set is free to utilize the LBM training (Lesser Black Magic) in the “ world of horrors” which in plain speak means the world outside the Temple of Set. And, this forum is outside the Temple of Set. Are you able to quote the above citation from Temple of Set documents or are we just expected to accept your statement?

"The actual text goes like this: Do not-ever- attempt to control another Setian through LBM....you will find yourself facing probable expulsion" pg 85 BM-M.A.A

I do not consider the WoH to be everything outside the Temple, for me it is un-initiated humanity. Within reason I expect more from anyone professing to be an Initiate.

In your defense you are certainly able to extend your religious ethics to this forum but you are not required to do so by the Temple of Set. Perhaps the Greek Arete, of which you refer, [and is not an Egyptian concept, like Set] is a matter of personal commitment.

I realize this forum is outside the Temple and I am not required to Act as a Priest here. However, where ever I am~so is the Temple, Initiation is my Life and encompasses almost everything I do. I have a very mobile life so if I am going to be here for a time I would like to at least learn-have a genuine experience of those I engage and leave something in my wake that can be used by others to learn from.

I have worked hard to get here and it is a personal commitment~for the most part it is something I lacked access in a former life but always felt capable of. I now have the opportunity to experience this aspect of Initiation in a most complete fashion and I have to say it makes learning, magic and Xeper a great deal richer and I am proud of the accomplishment thus far and I appreciate your kind words. I am a work in progress though and have much to learn yet.

This level of personal commitment is most honorable and I hope to further see you adhere to it. It, Arete that is, could be a development of your commitment of the Noble principles of the Setian religion but similar levels of commitment are demonstrated around the world by various individuals also seeking to develop their personal Divinity regardless of their religious choice.

I don't know how honorable it is, I strongly suspect it is an aspect of personal Sovereignty that is very important to develop. It is part of what I am becoming and it is something I learned the hard way. What I find important in transmitting this quality in Initiation is that it makes Initiation a hell of a lot more interesting and fulfilling for me and often for those I engage. I have many excellent associations with folks with other LHP approaches but it is this very quality (Arete) that allows those associations to exist.

Regarding the “secrets of Black Magic” I'm left with the impression that the suggestion is that it is not likely that one could develop this themselves apart from the training offered by the Temple of Set. Perhaps that is a culpable conclusion. Within the exclusive confines of the Temple of Set it is certainly plausible that this argument is valid. Nevertheless being able to produce similar results outside this environment is an unexplored opportunity by some; not willing to pay the financial dues, and submit to the Temple of Set closed door scrutiny.

Not the impression I intended Eric. Black Magic only works if you Work it, from Don Webb "the secret of magic is to transform the magician". Of course this can be attained outside the Temple. It was a great deal harder to develop outside the Temple than it is inside it. Not that I don't like a challenge and I spent twenty years bouncing around in the occult world to prove it. We are testing those unexplored boundaries right here, right now. For myself the TS Works and my subjective stance is that it is best possible environment for my Xeper. How others choose to develop their own Initiation is none of my business unless they make it so, that goes for inside and outside the Temple.

Although I respect your decision to bleep certain syllables [****] in your text the decision to not use more suitable terminology questions the capability to command the look of respect and nobility that classic Arete demonstrates and calls into account your readiness for the IV° and raises concerns as to if this sort of half-step above the gutter is typical of the III° Priesthood. Honestly Sireal, you are better than this. And before everyone starts throwing stones at me I'd like to say how I admire the courage of Sireal to take a chance in such a public forum as this as you know every high-level member of the Temple of Set is watching him. As are some newbies.

Well first let me state for the record that I am not perfect-Yet, in fact I can be real a***ole if or when I need to be and when I don't and am also perfectly capable of :foot: sometimes too, Magister Adams has seen classic me in action. Friction is a good teacher.

By speaking of Arete I am of course learning as much as anyone else. If I Understood the principle intimately I would likely not speak of it, simply Be it-I'll get there. So I'm practicing on you guys .
I think as well the IV*+ have better things to do than watch what I'm doing out here. I am sure for newer Setians here this discourse will add a more informed perspective of my own involvement on Temple lists, that's a Good thing and I am in excellent company.

Based upon close examination I have to disagree regarding “most here”. By observation I notice “most here” [in the Setian forum] are members of the Temple of Set or Setian sympathizers (past or present). That's OK as long as those with Setian views, that differ from the TS, are also permitted a voice else it's just a front for the Temple of Set and that diminishes its “real” public value. IMO.

I do not engage this forum to educate Setians, though if that occurs so much the better, setian's, yes, I learn from this forum and the different non-Setian approaches the Black Flame offers and I think I have something to contribute as well. But that's just part of it, I note there are some 200-400 hits on our posts, surely that's not just folks on this forum..that is what I meant by "most here", I could have made that clearer.

The real public value of this forum is its accurate dialogue and information about the Temple, not me flappin my jaws or dealing with silly human tricks. Yes its exposure, an opening of the outer Temple that is taking place. Magister Adams pod-casts are an example, my presence here, the Black Muse Element's music is publicly available, Setian art is cropping up in "A" class galleries and Museums around the world, Setian writers are widely published etc, yes- Setian's are a force in the world and will continue to become more so.

I do respect the views of others, when I am on another list I adhere to its parameters or leave if I have nothing to learn or ad. Those with setian views outside the Temple have most likely found a few things... or A Lot of things related to the Temple but have no context for the information, the "Rosetta Stone" of true Setian Black Magic is Setian Initiation. I find it highly unlikely, and I've looked, that there exists a more comprehensive Setian Black Magic perspective outside of the Temple of Set. A forum like this can provide a semblance of that context, not perfect or complete but definitely better than nothing at all. Ex-members are ex-members for a reason, they either found the TS to not be what they were seeking and left, needed a break from Initiation to sort out more pressing issues or they were expelled, all scenarios leave them inadequately equipped to comment accurately on the structure, culture or philosophy of the Temple as the Temple itself Xepers. For those who See, Act and are setian, they Will learn things here that have substance and they don't even have to be members to Xeper from it, and that is the point. This forum was not started by a Setian, but the call was put out ...
and we showed up...:magic:

Xeper!

 

[Eric Cow]

"The actual text goes like this: Do not-ever- attempt to control another Setian through LBM....you will find yourself facing probable expulsion" pg 85 BM-M.A.A

To be fair to the others reading this that are not familiar with your quote I've included the complete text from page 85 for clarity.

- 85 -
​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]This chapter was intended to achieve two goals: First, to alert you to the fact that everyone in the world is practicing LBM on everyone else, usually unconsciously and usually extremely unskillfully. Second, to advise you that, as you become sensitive to its use on you – and skilled in your own use if it on others – you can accomplish a great deal.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You will now have to go out and study the aforementioned subjects, practice them, and become fluent in them before they will be of any real use to you. Just reading this chapter and assuming that you “get the message” is not sufficient.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]It is perhaps appropriate to conclude with a brief but necessary warning: As an association of Adepts in LBM, the Temple of Set could not function cooperatively if its Initiates practiced this particular Art on one another, no matter with what good intentions. You are trusting the Temple and its sages to enhance and Recognize your self-initiation – not to mislead or to exploit you for lesser/ulterior purposes. You must reciprocate in turn. So remember this point and remember it well:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Do not – ever – attempt to control another Setian through LBM.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Because he trusts you not to, his usual guards will be down, and you may think him easy to influence in this way. Nevertheless I is just a question of time before either your “victim” or another Setian realizes what is happening, whereupon you will find yourself facing probable expulsion.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In all contracts and communications within the Temple, be straightforward, direct, and open. In profane society you might be pounced upon as a “mark” or “sucker” for such behavior, but within the Temple of Set you will find yourself trusted and respected as a fellow Initiate and magician. [/FONT]

 

[KHPR]

If you'd like to read the whole thing for yourself including Dr. Aquino's commentary you can read it yourself by going to Dr. Aquino's on going draft of his Temple of Set memoirs

It's not so super secret anymore, so don't be a fool and buy it on eBay when you can get it for free.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams

 

[Kenaz]

If you'd like to read the whole thing for yourself including Dr. Aquino's commentary you can read it yourself by going to Dr. Aquino's on going draft of his Temple of Set memoirs

It's not so super secret anymore, so don't be a fool and buy it on eBay when you can get it for free.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams

I'd suggest anyone interested in the Temple take Magister Adams advice. The "Temple of Set" .pdf document is FULL of wonderful and clarifying information on many of the Temple's views. Full of information to digest, interpret, discuss, etc. Will keep you busy for quite a while! I still find new things I missed when I open it up and look through it. Wonderful piece of work by Dr. Michael Aquino!

 

[KHPR]

I still find new things I missed when I open it up and look through it. Wonderful piece of work by Dr. Michael Aquino!

Well seeing as he's a retired Lt. Colonel he's got some time on his hands to update it.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams

 

[Valor]

If you'd like to read the whole thing for yourself including Dr. Aquino's commentary.

Yes, i printed this out 3 years ago and had it professionally binded, also seperately binded "Coming Forth by Night"... i prise them.

 

[blackout]

To be fair to the others reading this that are not familiar with your quote I've included the complete text from page 85 for clarity.

- 85 -​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]This chapter was intended to achieve two goals: First, to alert you to the fact that everyone in the world is practicing LBM on everyone else, usually unconsciously and usually extremely unskillfully. Second, to advise you that, as you become sensitive to its use on you – and skilled in your own use if it on others – you can accomplish a great deal.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You will now have to go out and study the aforementioned subjects, practice them, and become fluent in them before they will be of any real use to you. Just reading this chapter and assuming that you “get the message” is not sufficient.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]It is perhaps appropriate to conclude with a brief but necessary warning: As an association of Adepts in LBM, the Temple of Set could not function cooperatively if its Initiates practiced this particular Art on one another, no matter with what good intentions. You are trusting the Temple and its sages to enhance and Recognize your self-initiation – not to mislead or to exploit you for lesser/ulterior purposes. You must reciprocate in turn. So remember this point and remember it well:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Do not – ever – attempt to control another Setian through LBM.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Because he trusts you not to, his usual guards will be down, and you may think him easy to influence in this way. Nevertheless I is just a question of time before either your “victim” or another Setian realizes what is happening, whereupon you will find yourself facing probable expulsion.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In all contracts and communications within the Temple, be straightforward, direct, and open. In profane society you might be pounced upon as a “mark” or “sucker” for such behavior, but within the Temple of Set you will find yourself trusted and respected as a fellow Initiate and magician. [/FONT]

This is NECESSARY to the PURPOSE, Safety, and Xeper of every Member,
and the Temple itself.

If you want to accomplish certain things
you must "do" or "not",
as the very NATURE of the task at hand "demands".

This is in no way the same as "arbitrary rules and dictates to be followed".
This is just practical (common?) sense.

Honestly, everything in this little excerpt here is a no brainer to me,
it's so obvious.
Any LHPer who wants to work seriously with other LHPers
would need to realize the intrinsic necessity of such a "rule".

But if you prefer to work alone, then that's fine too.
Such things will not be an issue to you then.

Thanks for sharing the excerpt.
I personally am very glad the Temple holds this stance.
If it didn't, I really wouldn't even consider joining at all.

 

[Kenaz]

Well seeing as he's a retired Lt. Colonel he's got some time on his hands to update it.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams

Ha ha, yes surely and thankfully he does. I was commenting on the saved (and probably out-dated now) copy of the .pdf, but you make a good point. I should re-download the .pdf every now and then since he is continually adding to it to keep up, if that's possible!

 

[Daelach]

I would like to present another thought here. Sireal, your approach was a moral one. The basic problem with moral is that it is intransparent AS moral - mortals use it to give reasons for their actions when they actually do not know what they should do.

The drawback with that is that the moral itself is difficult to justify because for a Setian, it is a chosen thing, not forced in by education. If, on the other hand, you are able to reason the moral, then you do not need it anymore.

So, I am stealing a bit in the math realm, more precisely in game theory. You know, the stuff with the two prisoners who must choose between treachery and cooperation and the like. This will not become moral, but rather something like intelligent egoism.

Basically, I think about humanity of a big, dumb herd with few bright and interesting exceptions. Since the TOS itself shows elitism towards the rest of the world, you might agree here. IMO, elitism fits Setianism rather well.

What will happen if we try primitive LBM tricks on those few? Chances are that they will realise it precisely because they are bright enough, and as LHP adepts, probably trained in this art, too. So the chances for lasting success are not that good. And if it fails, this individual will not trust us anymore, maybe even try some sort of revenge. This means we would end up with some sort of struggle where there is little (or nothing) to win, for both sides: a lose-lose situation. That is not attractive because it is not useful for us.

If, on the other hand, we choose cooperation, then the person in question has the choice: LBM or not. If he chooses LBM, then he cannot be that bright, and it will not work because the cooperation offered should be accompanied by some caution also. An intelligent person should come to the same conclusion.

So if he returns the cooperation, then both sides together can create a win-win-situation and take some profit each, instead of creating a lose-lose situation.

So an immoral being without sense of honour or integrity can, by a blend of intelligence and egoism, take the same actions as if it had said qualities. The difference is that such a being knows why it makes these decisions.

This is my reason why I do not run around cheating everyone and killing at will, manipulating all the world. My gain usually will be greater if I offer cooperation and only answer by refusal thereof if it is met with treachery.

The result is abandoning the ethics of attitude in favour an ethics of resonsibility. The main question is not anymore WHY one is acting as one does, but FOR WHAT one is acting so. Taking it further, this will lead to overcome free-wherof and obtaining free-wherefore.

I quote from Nietzsche's Zarathustra:

Free, dost thou call thyself? Thy ruling thought would I hear of, and not that thou hast escaped from a yoke.

Art thou one entitled to escape from a yoke? Many a one hath cast away his final worth when he hath cast away his servitude.

Free from what? What doth that matter to Zarathustra! Clearly, however, shall thine eye show unto me: free for what?

Canst thou give unto thyself thy bad and thy good, and set up thy will as a law over thee? Canst thou be judge for thyself, and avenger of thy law?

Terrible is aloneness with the judge and avenger of one's own law. Thus is a star projected into desert space, and into the icy breath of aloneness.​

 

[KHPR]

IMO, elitism fits Setianism rather well.

Not to sidetrack the conversation, but I'll agree with you on this one even though I hate the word "elitism" because I've seen too many people who are only elite in their own mind as shown from their actions that it makes me feel like they're making the LHP look like Beavis and Butthead to the world.

Just my opinion though.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams

 

[Sireal]

I would like to present another thought here. Sireal, your approach was a moral one. The basic problem with moral is that it is intransparent AS moral - mortals use it to give reasons for their actions when they actually do not know what they should do.

The drawback with that is that the moral itself is difficult to justify because for a Setian, it is a chosen thing, not forced in by education. If, on the other hand, you are able to reason the moral, then you do not need it anymore.

I would agree with you Daelach. I consider myself A-moral, yet I hold morality based views. The difference I think and it points directly to your sense in this, is that I Know why I hold those views yet I do not expect anyone else to-they are my own and have been Worked out throughout my own Initiation. You may take them or leave them as you wish, but I am seldom wrong in this regard. You could say on an overt level I am a walking contradiction but in my heart of hearts I know differently, and have never found words that could convey that Knowing except to say- that if you haven't experienced it- you do not really know it.

So, I am stealing a bit in the math realm, more precisely in game theory. You know, the stuff with the two prisoners who must choose between treachery and cooperation and the like. This will not become moral, but rather something like intelligent egoism.

Basically, I think about humanity of a big, dumb herd with few bright and interesting exceptions. Since the TOS itself shows elitism towards the rest of the world, you might agree here. IMO, elitism fits Setianism rather well.

It should be obvious to most here that I am not a techno-mage...Yet I work from the Heart and teach from that place as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_soul

Yes I agree with you that Setian philosophy is elitist, although like Magister Adams I find the term limiting in its derogatory connotations. We Work bloody hard to learn and Xeper and yes I am exceedingly Proud of what I have been able to accomplish using Setian Philosophy in my Life, a life that has come a very long way from where it once was. And I don't feel one little bit bad about being better than most of what passes for human being out there. However, if we were truly Elitist, this forum would exist in a vacuum as I nor any other Setian would deign to frequent it, so you can see the difficulty this word presents. We are here, you and I (and others) are having a discussion about Setian philosophy. We share our knowledge with those who may See and we continue to dialogue in spite of having to traverse vast distance between the beginning of Initiation and all points in between. We can't be all that elitist and accomplish such things, can we?

So I think a new term should be applied..say..The Highest of Life!

What will happen if we try primitive LBM tricks on those few? Chances are that they will realise it precisely because they are bright enough, and as LHP adepts, probably trained in this art, too. So the chances for lasting success are not that good. And if it fails, this individual will not trust us anymore, maybe even try some sort of revenge. This means we would end up with some sort of struggle where there is little (or nothing) to win, for both sides: a lose-lose situation. That is not attractive because it is not useful for us.

The distrust goes without saying. The revenge aspect I do not consider worthy of my time- stupidity has built in revenge, I do not need to lift a finger, but that does not stop me from shifting a few reality tunnels to make that revenge more poignant.

If, on the other hand, we choose cooperation, then the person in question has the choice: LBM or not. If he chooses LBM, then he cannot be that bright, and it will not work because the cooperation offered should be accompanied by some caution also. An intelligent person should come to the same conclusion.

So if he returns the cooperation, then both sides together can create a win-win-situation and take some profit each, instead of creating a lose-lose situation.

Sounds like a good plan.:yes:

So an immoral being without sense of honour or integrity can, by a blend of intelligence and egoism, take the same actions as if it had said qualities. The difference is that such a being knows why it makes these decisions.

I think they could be successful, yes. I also Understand that their creation is limited by their lack of said Understanding and their creations maligned by the ignorance that is endemic in the process they have chosen, which I might add is not difficult to spot either. Intelligent immoral being speaks to the likes of Stalin or Mussolini et al, which ultimately yields the same sort of ignorance one finds in the profane world and not something I consider to be of the quality the Principle of Isolate Intelligence embodies. It may seem like lofty principled thinking but it is no more than clever deviance with lazy intent that will run its course and do nothing to ennoble the Individual. Magister Adam's pointed out the difference between action and words...

FOR WHAT[/B] one is acting so. Taking it further, this will lead to overcome free-wherof and obtaining free-wherefore.

I quote from Nietzsche's Zarathustra:

Free, dost thou call thyself? Thy ruling thought would I hear of, and not that thou hast escaped from a yoke.

Art thou one entitled to escape from a yoke? Many a one hath cast away his final worth when he hath cast away his servitude.

Free from what? What doth that matter to Zarathustra! Clearly, however, shall thine eye show unto me: free for what?

Canst thou give unto thyself thy bad and thy good, and set up thy will as a law over thee? Canst thou be judge for thyself, and avenger of thy law?

Terrible is aloneness with the judge and avenger of one's own law. Thus is a star projected into desert space, and into the icy breath of aloneness.​

Well said!
Setian Black Magic is an evolutionary process. If the "attitude" is the whole of the practitioner then they have not Seen beyond the veil. When the Individual learns that this attitude can transform the Being itself and begins to take ethical responsibility for what Becomes from its Being they have begun to Self Initiate and become capable of Adepthood and Adept through mastery of this knowledge of its realized Self and its application to this Life and the Secrets that Ib holds.

Canst thou give unto thyself thy bad and thy good, and set up thy will as a law over thee? Canst thou be judge for thyself, and avenger of thy law?

Terrible is aloneness with the judge and avenger of one's own law. Thus is a star projected into desert space, and into the icy breath of aloneness.

And there-in lies a great secret of the Ib.