LDS fascination

[BilliardsBall]

Yes, I agree the gospel and Jesus of Mormonism is very different than that of the Bible.
I don’t necessarily agree that Mormonism would make the world a friendly and lovely place, though. Behind the image of friendliness, family- oriented , cleanliness, and morality is too often another, dark world of stress, oppression, and abuse.

Good point. "Conversions" are likely release from stress. "I feel better now that I admit Joseph Smith was right," and etc.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Sand Dancer]

The term "high priest" refers to an office in the Melchizedek Priesthood. Men must be ordained high priests to serve as bishops, on high councils, or in stake presidencies, or as General Authorities (see High Council; Priesthood). Stake presidents may ordain high priests for other reasons as well.
https://eom.byu.edu/index.php/High_Priest


The Melchizedek Priesthood is one of the “orders” of priesthood in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Church). It is referred to as the “high priesthood of the holy order of God” (Alma 4:20, 13:8) or simply as the “high priesthood.” This priesthood was restored to the Prophet Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the spring of 1829 at the hands of the resurrected Peter, James, and John.In the Mormon Church, the Melchizedek Priesthood is given to worthy male members 18 years and older who have been members of the Church for over one year. Ordination is based on the person’s age and moral worthiness without regard to training, knowledge, or aptitude.
Melchizedek Priesthood


The priesthood as practiced by the LDS church is more akin to the practices of the Masonic Lodge, not the biblical gospel or teachings of Jesus, the apostles or early church...

Mormonism, Masonry, and their Related Temple Rituals

I participated in Mormon Temple work for over twenty years as a Mormon. I did not realize that I was actually involved in gnostic, occult pagan worship. Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism became a Mason in 1842. He stated “I was with the Masonic Lodge and rose to the sublime degree.” He introduced the Mormon temple ceremony less than two months later (Tanner 490).

Mormonism, Masonry, and their Related Temple Rituals - Sword Cross and Crown

Okay. Aren't all men part of that priesthood? Most of our founding fathers were Masons. I guess it was very popular back then. Secretive stuff. Thank you!

 

[Sand Dancer]

Well, if it's only the social aspect of the denomination that appeals to you, that is, tenets that you can find in a myriad of other denominations and religions, then I would say that it is not the distinct and definitive theology of the LDS group that attracts you, but the circumstantial events that brought you to that awareness.

There are some things about the theology that I really like but some I definitely don't agree with. It's why I am so torn on it.

 

[Truth in love]

The BoM is demonstrably false (as is the religion as a whole).

I’m curious why you think Mormons are more Bible-based than Protestant churches. This too is demonstrably false.

Please fell free to cite how this is so.

 

[Truth in love]

I had no idea about the drinks! Are there any other dietary restrictions?



Wow! That requires relinquishing too much control for my liking. But, to each their own

Callings are extended. Most often after discussion and prayer.

A person is free to accept or decline.

While some callings seem to be a better fit at times we value growth. Being asked to do something that is not supper easy is a big part of growth.

 

[Truth in love]

I don't have a problem with them per se, but to require them isn't practical if they are going to allow for more exceptions. It's like the caffeine/alcohol issue. While I don't agree with how they interpreted "hot drinks" to mean those things, they have now allowed caffeinated soda but still don't allow coffee. If it were about health, soda should be out. Coffee is actually healthful unless you overindulge. It doesn't make sense to me I guess.




No. It is decided by some of the leaders after praying about it.

Quick thought on this.

1. Caffeine was never banned. There are the odd rumors and personal interpretations, but by policy is was ever really addressed.
2. The science world keeps changing their minds about what is healthy. As a society we can celery see the harm from tobacco and alcohol abuse. Other items like Coffee and Tea we get mix reports. I figure God knows best and does not need to wait for science to discover something.
3. We are encouraged to make wise choices. In my family we don't have any added caffeine, sodas are rare and we are struggling to try to eat better over all.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Quick thought on this.

1. Caffeine was never banned. There are the odd rumors and personal interpretations, but by policy is was ever really addressed.
2. The science world keeps changing their minds about what is healthy. As a society we can celery see the harm from tobacco and alcohol abuse. Other items like Coffee and Tea we get mix reports. I figure God knows best and does not need to wait for science to discover something.

I figured it was probably in the Health Code (I forgot what it is called). The churches I went to didn't have coffee offered, but they did have caffeine-free soda.

 

[JustGeorge]

Callings are extended. Most often after discussion and prayer.

A person is free to accept or decline.

While some callings seem to be a better fit at times we value growth. Being asked to do something that is not supper easy is a big part of growth.

What happens if you turn down the calling presented to you?

 

[Truth in love]

I figured it was probably in the Health Code (I forgot what it is called). The churches I went to didn't have coffee offered, but they did have caffeine-free soda.

Yes sugar is the drug of choice for many LDS folks.

 

[Truth in love]

What happens if you turn down the calling presented to you?

Not much. You miss out on the blessings/growth and such you could have had.

Several years back my wife as asked to speak. She was having a really stressful time and opted out. A while latter the offer was made again and she accepted (Did a great job too BTW). People with health issues and family crisis ask to be released from callings. As far as I know there no issues/punishment etc.

It's a volunteer system. Not everyone shows up for everything and it's all good.

I do freely confess and that not judging is taught better than it is lived. The church is full of imperfect people so there are social/cultural issues here and there, but to me those are all secondary.

 

[Watchmen]

Please fell free to cite how this is so.

Here’s a link to a thorough discussion about the falsity of the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, Etc.

Book of Mormon | CES Letter

 

[Truth in love]

Here’s a link to a thorough discussion about the falsity of the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, Etc.

Book of Mormon | CES Letter

Wow a long ramble of 2 bit whines.

Anything useful to add?

 

[Watchmen]

Wow a long ramble of 2 bit whines.

Anything useful to add?

You asked for a cite, I gave you a cite. It most definitely isn’t “2 bit whines.” The CES letter is an intelligently written rebuttal to many LDS teachings that cannot be logically rebuffed.

 

[Truth in love]

You asked for a cite, I gave you a cite. It most definitely isn’t “2 bit whines.” The CES letter is an intelligently written rebuttal to many LDS teachings that cannot be logically rebuffed.

I did not read the entire thing (its a bit long), but the bulk of what I read were opinions language specifics which are a far cry for shown something to be "demonstrably false" People disagree all the time on language. The dislike of a given synonym coma etc is far from conclusive.

You also provided nothing on what the Bible says that is in conflict

 

[JustGeorge]

**Seeker's Circle Is A Non Debate Forum**​

 

[Watchmen]

I did not read the entire thing (its a bit long), but the bulk of what I read were opinions language specifics which are a far cry for shown something to be "demonstrably false" People disagree all the time on language. The dislike of a given synonym coma etc is far from conclusive.

You also provided nothing on what the Bible says that is in conflict

You’re lucky. We were just reminded this is not a debate thread. Otherwise, I would have easily dismantled the BoM. It’s my hope that you will one day open your eyes. Freedom from the Church is amazing, brother. I am now in the best physical and mental and emotional shape of my life.

 

[Clear]

For some reason, I am fascinated with Latter Day Saints. I like parts of the religion, but don't like others. The thing I really like if they seem very family-oriented, moral and modest. Just clean-living folks. That appeals to me. But I can't agree with some of the doctrine and rules. I don't know why I keep looking into it. Help me sort this out.

Hi @Sand Dancer

Like you, I am drawn to any religion or people who are family oriented and moral. I don't care what religion a good person attends, I like principles that are moral and kind and good.
I also was impressed by restorational movement and restorational theology (i.e. the movement and theology that seeks to discover and return to the most ancient and authentic form of Christianity). While I have read multiple debates regarding why some individuals think restorational theology is incorrect, I have never seen a better explanation as to how Joseph Smith were able to restore so much of early theology by any means other than revelation. For example, I have heard a theory that Smith "stole" the correct theology from someone else. This still doesn't answer how the person he presumably "stole" the theological model from got the correct models in such a clear and mature form. Someone, somewhere, still had to have received revelation unless a better explanation can be made.

Though I grew up baptist, I was and continue to be amazed at the restorational movement by both it's members and by the non-member historians (of any religion) that are seeking to determine what the most authentic and early Christianity was like, what it believed and it's texts regardless of what religion they belong to.

Good luck in your own spiritual Journey @Sand Dancer

Clear
σεσετωω

 

[Truth in love]

You’re lucky. We were just reminded this is not a debate thread. Otherwise, I would have easily dismantled the BoM. It’s my hope that you will one day open your eyes. Freedom from the Church is amazing, brother. I am now in the best physical and mental and emotional shape of my life.

Congrats, but please spare me your baseless nonsense.

 

[Watchmen]

Congrats, but please spare me your baseless nonsense.

Please refrain from debating. This is not a debate forum. Would you like to go to a debate forum about the CES Letter and questions/information therein? We could do one on one or have it open to everyone.

 

[Clear]

Congrats, but please spare me your baseless nonsense.

I have to agree that it is silly to think that one can "dismantle" any religion that the best scholars and educated individuals have sought to disprove for hundreds of years and have been unable to prove. It is like the athiest who claims that they can dismantle christianity, or the christian claiming to be able to dismantle athiesm. Such claims are silly jabs.

I do admit that I like the restorational movement in all it's varieties and I do find an attraction to any attempt (whether by historian or by prophet or by layman) to discover, uncover and restore the earliest and most authentic form of Judeo-Christian belief regarding base doctrines.

clear
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