Leftists suggest re-education camps, firing squads, banning talk radio to deprogram Trump supporters

[Revoltingest]

I would have to disagree here. A vote represents that the voter is okay with what that candidate is representing.

That is one way to see it.
But it doesn't address the complexity of the larger picture, ie, that....

1) Candidates can be viewed as not just who they are, but also
as their potential future record in office. For example, Bernie
was ostensibly a socialist. And despite socialism being a disaster,
there's no way he'd have presidential power to impose it upon us.
But we & other countries have been ravaged by our feckless wars,
& Bernie would indeed have the power to not start new ones.
I judged him to portend a better net effect on Ameristan than Trump.
So I'd have voted for him over Trump, despite my vigorous
disagreement with him on many issues.

2) Candidates don't run in a vacuum. Hillary vs Trump, & Joe
vs Trump both are lesser-of-2-evils choices for many of us.
Remember that Joe opposed public school integration, he
voted to start the Iraq war, his overt racism against blacks,
& he too has sexual impropriety allegations dogging him.

If you judge other people by the simplistic standard that they
are who they vote for (or otherwise support), then beware
being judged by your own standard.

 

[Stevicus]

OK fair enough. So it's crazy echo-chamber talk, basically.

However, on the (inevitable, Godwin's Law) Nazi comparisons, there is a real point here I think, if one sets aside the hyperbole. The US has, perhaps without fully realising it, experienced a demagogue that uses appeal to people's base instincts and The Big Lie as core methods - and it has very nearly worked on them. Furthermore, we are witnessing a sort of attempted coup right now, in which the majority of one major party seem to be willing participants! Comparison with the Nazis themselves may be far-fetched, but comparisons with the ways authoritarians gain power and suppress democracy are not.

It goes to show the extent to which people will find reasons to believe what they want to believe, regardless of fact. (This is something readers of this forum see evidence of, every day.) And how willing so many are to acquiesce in what they must know to be crazy untruths, if it benefits their political tribe. This is the way people like the Nazis did it, all those years ago.

You're describing a situation which could apply to U.S. politics in general. This is part of what I've been observing these past 4-5 years. I've seen people fall all over themselves trying to convince others that Trump is the worse thing in the world, but whenever valid comparisons are made between Trump and other U.S. politicians or political phenomena, we hear people mendaciously utter BS terms like "false equivalence." I see this as a form of manipulation which I can not abide.

There was once a time when liberals and leftists used to examine causes and effects, rather than just look at symptoms. This is part of the process of critical thinking as some people claim they're able to do, but sometimes I wonder. They don't look very deeply at issues at anymore. They hear one idle quip and then start screaming like banshees or some witch-burning mob. Both sides appear to have been duped by a big lie.

 

[Stevicus]

Tell me why I am expected to care what a "verified user" of any particular website has to say? It's not like the verified user was Biden is my point. Probably some teenager sitting in his parent's basement sipping Slurpee from 7-11 and plotting world domination in his day dreams. I can't be arsed to care.

I've heard similar condemnations across the board. This isn't really anything that rare or unique.

The only way this "de-programming" can occur naturally and ethically is at the grass roots level. Just like I'm working to do with religion. Destroy it by getting people to question their understanding, pointing out to them their failures in critical thinking, not backing down when they try to get uppity, not taking their crap without a battle of wits from which they emerge reeling. Hit them in their security with their ideas... make them insecure, make them question, ridicule them while pounding home the points that you feel represent the correct position to hold. They are free to do the same - but at the end of the day, the more rational position should win out. If it doesn't, we've all failed. Ourselves and each other.

You may be correct, although I think it's a big assumption to think that the rational position should win out. There may be competing and equally irrational positions at work here, but that's a different matter.

 

[Stevicus]

I see some of the usual suspects in this thread trying to downplay this meanwhile they spout similar rhetoric all over this board. Typical. It's out of hand. I don't deserve to have all this disgusting **** said about my character simply because I voted for Trump. They don't know me so they have no business judging me. I don't **** on people for voting for Biden. This is supposed to be America, where we're free to support whoever we please for president. They're just brainwashed by the MSM.

I agree. One thing I refuse to do is allow others to tell me what to think, neither the right nor the left.

 

[Stevicus]

I knew a vet from vietnam, and he said some days on tour there were downright pleasant...one could almost forget there was a conflict [chopper pilot]...this is pretty much the same kind of deal..qualitatively, since here the war is in the arena of hearts and minds....but it is just as vicious and conniving...in spirit.

The battle for hearts and minds in Vietnam was also apparently futile. It seems that it's a common phenomenon for humans to resist outsiders coming in and telling them what to do and how to think.

 

[Stevicus]

Have you read the other articles on that website???
Makes Fox look liberal

No, I never saw that website before yesterday. I found the link on the sub-Reddit r/worldnews. But similar content can be found throughout the media.

 

[Audie]

The battle for hearts and minds in Vietnam was also apparently futile. It seems that it's a common phenomenon for humans to resist outsiders coming in and telling them what to do and how to think.

I'd say that was among the least of the reasons that the US was not succeeding.

 

[Stevicus]

Where would be a good area or arena for this
batle to full mutual destruction?

Antarctica, perhaps?

Can send a few Chinese commies too? PLZ???

Well, if they're willing to go, I have no objections.

 

[Goddess Kit]

I am going to attempt to be serious for a moment, but merely a moment.

Imagine being of the mind of one who accepts the kind of liberal policies that help people rather than corporations. Imagine being a liberal minded minority in a conservative family. Essentially, due to the policies most conservatives find themselves advocating simply because they support the Republican candidate, imagine how the liberal minded family member must feel: my family is voting against me. They have so little love for me, they would vote for policies that harm me.

 

[Audie]

Antarctica, perhaps?



Well, if they're willing to go, I have no objections.

Hmm. Antarctica is so pristine I hate to see it get all greasy.

 

[Stevicus]

It won't work on lefties either.

Hell, mu old uncle who was with the Red Guards STILL spouts Mao-talk if you stick around to hear it.

The funny thing is, as a society, America has already gone through similar things in the past. A lot of people didn't like the results of the Election of 1860, and a Civil War ensued soon after.

 

[Audie]

I am going to attempt to be serious for a moment, but merely a moment.

Imagine being of the mind of one who accepts the kind of liberal policies that help people rather than corporations. Imagine being a liberal minded minority in a conservative family. Essentially, due to the policies most conservatives find themselves advocating simply because they support the Republican candidate, imagine how the liberal minded family member must feel: my family is voting against me. They have so little love for me, they would vote for policies that harm me.

I hope there is more nuance to it than that.

 

[Goddess Kit]

I hope there is more nuance to it than that.

Clarify.

 

[Stevicus]

You are free to support whoever you want for president. But if you choose to vote for a selfish unpatriotic bigot you shouldn't be too terribly surprised if people conclude that you must be a selfish unpatriotic bigot as well.

And you're free to conclude whatever you wish, but if you wish to convince people that your side is "more rational" and "more capable of critical thinking," that's another thing entirely. Some people won't buy it as easily as others, and therein lies our current dilemma.

 

[Stevicus]

"Tweets" are an excellent source for ... oh, wait ... never mind.

Many have claimed that social media have been used to influence public opinion and interfere with the US election process. I'm not sure what you were getting at by saying they're "an excellent source for..." but their impact on the U.S. political scene has been noticeable.

 

[Goddess Kit]

Ironically, no has more influence than Trump in that regard.

 

[Audie]

Clarify.

For a start, benefitting people and benefitting
corporations are not mutually exclusive.

HK here, for a very visual example..
(Check Google images for quick reminder)
A poor fishing village transformed by a business friendly government to what it is now.

I'd say it's benefitted a lot of people.

Its all in the nuance of balance.

 

[Stevicus]

How to deprogram 75 million Trump supporters?

That's easy. It's only the idiot politicians that can't see it. You just stop kissing the butts of the one percent and worshiping the Stock Market, and start putting people back to work at real jobs that pay a real wage. It's that simple. Do that, and Trump and his ilk will be tossed to the curb like the dog turds they are.

I think you're on the right track here. I don't think it's necessary to "deprogram" any of the common people. It's the people on Wall Street and other elitist bastions where the deprogramming is badly needed. If today's "left" was worth their salt, they wouldn't go after confused, disaffected working-class people who only ever wanted a fair day's wage for a fair day's work.

 

[Goddess Kit]

I think you're on the right track here. I don't think it's necessary to "deprogram" any of the common people. It's the people on Wall Street and other elitist bastions where the deprogramming is badly needed. If today's "left" was worth their salt, they wouldn't go after confused, disaffected working-class people who only ever wanted a fair day's wage for a fair day's work.

In that case, Republicans need to stop voting Republican. It's that simple. After all, I don't possess all this omniscience for no reason.

 

[Audie]

Clarify.

Actually my hope was for family relations and who cares for who.

My extended family does, ah, vigorous disputes, but let some outsider mess with one
of us and all differences are forgotten.