Legality of Martial Arts and self-defence courses

[Jumi]

Do you believe Martial Arts and self-defence courses should be legal? As we know, much of these have been banned at various times in history by state similarly to weapon bans.

Capoeira developed from slaves practicing martial arts hidden in a dance. Many have heard of Putin practicing Judo in secret, since it was banned in USSR. In the 80s-90s there were religious voices for banning martial arts as something that connects you to the devil.

 

[Sanzbir]

Well if you believe in the right of a human being to life you should also believe in a right to self defense through martial arts at the very least.

 

[Laika]

Many have heard of Putin practicing Judo in secret, since it was banned in USSR.

Do you have a source for that one? I'm curious as that's not something I heard before although it sounds like the kind of stupid thing they would do. I believe the Soviets were responsible for "Sambo" as a martial art though but I don't know any more than that.

 

[Jumi]

Do you have a source for that one? I'm curious as that's not something I heard before although it sounds like the kind of stupid thing they would do. I believe the Soviets were responsible for "Sambo" as a martial art though but I don't know any more than that.

I'm sorry, I couldn't find anything on it in English or other languages I know, only found something on a ban on karate and "commercialization of martial arts". I think I first read about it in Putin's autobiography that was published over 10 years ago. I'm pretty sure that my memory here is not faulty, so I'll keep an eye out if I find anything.

 

[Jumi]

Well if you believe in the right of a human being to life you should also believe in a right to self defense through martial arts at the very least.

I agree, but there have been many times in history where peasants were forbidden to practice martial arts. In my country if you are a skilled martial artist(or even a weightlifter) defending yourself could potentially be a worse crime than the attackers which I always found ridiculous.

 

[Laika]

I'm sorry, I couldn't find anything on it in English or other languages I know, only found something on a ban on karate and "commercialization of martial arts". I think I first read about it in Putin's autobiography that was published over 10 years ago. I'm pretty sure that my memory here is not faulty, so I'll keep an eye out if I find anything.

No worries. I was just curious. Thanks for looking.

 

[Jumi]

No worries. I was just curious. Thanks for looking.

It's kind of weird, I would expect that it was more widely documented if true, so I'm not trusting my memory here 100%. It would also contradict him being Leningrad judo champ, so it may be that his dojo was underground and it was not a complete ban on judo or there was some change in it's legality. Then again not everything escapes the Russian language part of internet.

 

[Revoltingest]

Legal.

 

[PureX]

Do you believe Martial Arts and self-defence courses should be legal? As we know, much of these have been banned at various times in history by state similarly to weapon bans.

Capoeira developed from slaves practicing martial arts hidden in a dance. Many have heard of Putin practicing Judo in secret, since it was banned in USSR. In the 80s-90s there were religious voices for banning martial arts as something that connects you to the devil.

I think we can practice beating other people up all we want to. It's the actual beating of them that needs to be kept illegal.

 

[Laika]

It's kind of weird, I would expect that it was more widely documented if true, so I'm not trusting my memory here 100%. It would also contradict him being Leningrad judo champ, so it may be that his dojo was underground and it was not a complete ban on judo or there was some change in it's legality. Then again not everything escapes the Russian language part of internet.

Yeah. There is a blind spot on English Language Google and its hard to get primary sources on the USSR because they are in Russian. There's a handy google translate app for Chrome so I had a look on Russian Wikipedia. It sounds like you were basically right.

After the arrest and death of Oschepkov in 1937, his disciples based on judo developed a new kind of struggle - sambo. In 1938, the name of the judo (in the then used version of the Wrestling of the Freestyle dzyu-do) was used in official documents for the last time, then only the name of the wrestling and then Sambo was used. In the opinion expressed by M. N. Lukashev , this was caused by the desire of a number of athletes to emphasize the lack of connection of this style of struggle with Oschepkov, declared "the enemy of the people" [2] . From the late 1930s to the early 1960s , judo practically did not develop in the USSR.

 

[Sanzbir]

I agree, but there have been many times in history where peasants were forbidden to practice martial arts.

True, though I think it is in keeping with what I said. In those societies, you didn't have the right to your own life, your life was considered the property of your "superiors". Your life was their rights, so you had no inherent right to protect yourself.

Also, as a note, I remember a few instances where the opposite was the case, a monarchy (like Moldavia for instance) mandating that all peasants needed to be armed with and trained in the sword at all times, and failure to carry a sword for the purposes of community defense was punishable by death.

In my country if you are a skilled martial artist(or even a weightlifter) defending yourself could potentially be a worse crime than the attackers which I always found ridiculous.

Ouch, that sounds like quite an annoying law.

Luckily my own country is pretty good when it comes to even unusual cases of self defense or defense of others with martial arts. I remember a story of that time a katana-wielding Mormon bishop chased away a stalker, so martial arts in defense of self or community is generally A-OK where I live.

 

[David1967]

Do you believe Martial Arts and self-defence courses should be legal?

Absolutely. I believe wholeheartedly that everyone should have the right to defend themselves and to learn to do it well.

 

[Jumi]

Yeah. There is a blind spot on English Language Google and its hard to get primary sources on the USSR because they are in Russian. There's a handy google translate app for Chrome so I had a look on Russian Wikipedia. It sounds like you were basically right.

It's a bit better in my language, because we used to border them. I've sometimes used google translate, but it helps to know the language being translated when google messes up.

After the arrest and death of Oschepkov in 1937, his disciples based on judo developed a new kind of struggle - sambo. In 1938, the name of the judo (in the then used version of the Wrestling of the Freestyle dzyu-do) was used in official documents for the last time, then only the name of the wrestling and then Sambo was used. In the opinion expressed by M. N. Lukashev , this was caused by the desire of a number of athletes to emphasize the lack of connection of this style of struggle with Oschepkov, declared "the enemy of the people" [2] . From the late 1930s to the early 1960s , judo practically did not develop in the USSR.

Interesting, I remember parts of this information being in an article I read in the 90s.

 

[Jumi]

True, though I think it is in keeping with what I said. In those societies, you didn't have the right to your own life, your life was considered the property of your "superiors". Your life was their rights, so you had no inherent right to protect yourself.

Well in my country you have right to life, but you're not supposed to fight even in defense. It's a backwards law, but one that fits well with today's European half-pacifistic ideals.

Luckily my own country is pretty good when it comes to even unusual cases of self defense or defense of others with martial arts. I remember a story of that time a katana-wielding Mormon bishop chased away a stalker, so martial arts in defense of self or community is generally A-OK where I live.

In my part of Europe this could go as evidence for how violent the US folks are, even priests carrying swords. We have lots of guns(and even swords) as a nation, but you keep them at home and not supposed to use them even in defense.

 

[Sanzbir]

Well in my country you have right to life, but you're not supposed to fight even in defense. It's a backwards law, but one that fits well with today's European half-pacifistic ideals.

That's unfortunate. Even in my hippie religion that forbids war, self defense is still explicitly allowed.

In my part of Europe this could go as evidence for how violent the US folks are, even priests carrying swords. We have lots of guns(and even swords) as a nation, but you keep them at home and not supposed to use them even in defense.

It's been a while since I read the story, but I believe the incident with the katana-wielding Mormon bishop was an incident where the sword was in his home. Upon seeing his neighbor being harassed he grabbed it off his mantle and charged out of his doorway.

The fun thing about using swords in self defense these days is most criminals are just going to assume they shouldn't mess with anyone crazy enough to be wielding a sword and run away, which is what happened in every one of the (admittedly few) stories I've read about criminals confronted with steel.

 

[Jumi]

Absolutely. I believe wholeheartedly that everyone should have the right to defend themselves and to learn to do it well.

As a lapsed martial artist, I agree, most folks should know some basic defense. It helps a lot if criminals or terrorists take hostages for instance. Makes their job more difficult.

 

[Jumi]

It's been a while since I read the story, but I believe the incident with the katana-wielding Mormon bishop was an incident where the sword was in his home. Upon seeing his neighbor being harassed he grabbed it off his mantle and charged out of his doorway.

While the public here would applaud it, he might get some penalty here for it. He's supposed to call the police, stand at his window and tell them what's going on.

The fun thing about using swords in self defense these days is most criminals are just going to assume they shouldn't mess with anyone crazy enough to be wielding a sword and run away, which is what happened in every one of the (admittedly few) stories I've read about criminals confronted with steel.

True, and swords are quite scary in reality... it's not like you want to face that without being armed yourself.

 

[Liu]

Legal of course, I see no reason why it shouldn't be.
Self-defence courses are even organized by public schools here.

Well in my country you have right to life, but you're not supposed to fight even in defense. It's a backwards law, but one that fits well with today's European half-pacifistic ideals.

Similar situation here (Germany). And it's not even about being trained or anything (although this might make this law even more likely to be applied). If you defend yourself e.g. against a burglar and use more violence than would be necessary for self-defence you can be accused of assault.
Makes me even more glad that I've never been in any situation were I had to defend myself so far.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm totally fine with self-defense classes however, and I know @Revoltingest will cringe at this ( ), I would like to see some standardized practices and certification for instructors because holy hell some of these classes are going to get people killed with advice that is the equivalence of "for convenience you can put your gun in your pants waist." Bad information in a false sense of security gets people very hurt.

Even if there was an informal certification like with first aid would be better then having to choose the roulette wheel of sleazeballs looking to make a buck off of scared people versus instructors with genuine good intention and research behind them.

 

[Twilight Hue]

These hands and feet....are Registered as lethal weapons!!!!!!

KIAaAhhh!!!!